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It got beat 3 sec by a 488 Pista? And the AMG GT R...it may or may not be a bullshit test but it's not a good look for the Z at all. .
Hope they can re-test for a better result.
Which begs the question: Why on Earth would GM provide a press car for journo testing under winter conditions? Are they trying to make the Z look bad so the E-Ray will look better? Makes no sense. Neither does testing it first thing in the morning (see the car's shadow). Ridiculous, and now will be all over the internet. Way to go GM.
It got beat 3 sec by a 488 Pista? And the AMG GT R...it may or may not be a bullshit test but it's not a good look for the Z at all. .
Hope they can re-test for a better result.
Which begs the question: Why on Earth would GM provide a press car for journo testing under winter conditions? Are they trying to make the Z look bad so the E-Ray will look better? Makes no sense.
The M4CSL was mostly tested and reviewed in the wet also.
The 992 911 TurboS Ring time is wet as well.
The M4CSL was mostly tested and reviewed in the wet also.
The 992 911 TurboS Ring time is wet as well.
**** happens.
Agree rain in summer on a given day is luck of the draw. That's one thing. But GM purposely delivering a new car to Hockenheim for testing in March or whenever before May, is malpractice 101.
Agree rain in summer on a given day is luck of the draw. That's one thing. But GM purposely delivering a new car to Hockenheim for testing in March or whenever before May, is malpractice 101.
I didn't watch the video but was the car delivered by GM or did the testers get their hands on a car another way?
If it was sent by GM, you might be surprised by who sent it, not a seasoned wily individual, more likely something closer to someone in their first few years of corporate employment without intimate knowledge of European weather patterns and if it was someone in GM Europe's group, then maybe different. Do we know for sure?
I don't see how it could be anything other than a press car. They are not yet on sale in Europe, and even if they were, Euros are at the back of the allocation list.
I have a hard time believing GM would entrust a vehicle release to a junior person. They put way too much prep into vehicle releases and track testing normally, and they have been testing in Germany for decades. They know better...
You have to remember that in Europe, the Corvette cannot compete on price or value. It is as expensive, if not more so, than European equivalents. A C6 or C7 Grand Sport, let's say, in Europe, sells for north of 140,000 Euro. It is a major commitment for a European buyer to step into one of these. So they need to do it better than the Euros, performance-wise, for them to be attractive. These results are not going to convince any GT3 or Ferrari V8 driver to try a Vette. I don't get it.... unless it is intentional.
GM/Chevrolet European operations were rolled back a long time ago and may come as fifth or six in the export scheme of things.
EU reseller may have gotten two or three of these to loan out to media without much care or PR costs. It is that small of a market relative to Canada, Emirates and Japan for example.
I foresee no more of 100 Z06s making it to the EU maybe in two to three years. UK may see about the same.
GM/Chevrolet European operations were rolled back a long time ago and may come as fifth or six in the export scheme of things.
EU reseller may have gotten two or three of these to loan out to media without much care or PR costs. It is that small of a market relative to Canada, Emirates and Japan for example.
I foresee no more of 100 Z06s making it to the EU maybe in two to three years. UK may see about the same.
There arent many lunatics willing to pay a fortune for a C8Z in Europe... North of $200k for a C8 SR in my neck of the woods. C8Z will be significantly more than double that. Easy. That is if you can ever get one!
GM/Chevrolet European operations were rolled back a long time ago and may come as fifth or six in the export scheme of things.
EU reseller may have gotten two or three of these to loan out to media without much care or PR costs. It is that small of a market relative to Canada, Emirates and Japan for example.
I foresee no more of 100 Z06s making it to the EU maybe in two to three years. UK may see about the same.
Something like that makes more sense to me, GM didn't put a program together to intentionally make the Z slow. Whether it was an apathetic reseller or a junior marketing employee, this is much more likely an aloof decision than self sabotage.
When Car and Driver did their first test of the C8Z, no one at Chevy bothered to tell them to air down the Cup2R tires to 24 PSI cold, so they tested them at 35 PSI cold which is what the recommended pressure apparently is for the Cup2s to reduce the likelihood of hydroplaning on the street in the rain. Those that actually have the Z07 can speak up if you see 35 PSI at the recommended street pressure of the Cup2Rs.
I'm a big fan of Sport Auto but 2c and no Christian Gebhardt is a tough sell.
2c in itself isn't an issue if you:
1. Have done plenty of running on the racing line to get it to grip up and increase the surface temps
2. Are able to maintain the tire temps within their operating range (see point 1)
Let's say on that day, the first couple of hours were spent like a track day or race meets with lots of cars doing continuous lapping. That'd get the track surface in a good working range. Then you set your pressures and do a couple of warm up laps and send it. But if you're just going out on a barely ran track with 2c ambient temps on Cup 2R's....i's just gonna be a really tough gig.
I agree, this is not a fair comparison. Not that one is ever perfect, but the cold track is definitely a factor. On our local 1.7 mile track after 1 hour lunch break with no traffic lap times will easily slow down a second the first session because just like a tire needs heat to become compliant for grip the rubber on the track needs to be warmed up for grip. The track has 16 corners, if he’s only a tenth slower in each than Christian then that’s 1.6 seconds and I’d estimate it’s down the same amount for the conditions. There’s the difference with the 992 GT3 as I believe they’re very close to being equal cars in most cases, just like in drag racing at some point track times become about chasing optimum conditions.
Meaningless laptimes. The Cup 2Rs can get badly damaged in 36F because they are a slick compound on a road tyre carcass. The Z would actually lap significantly faster on Pilot 4S than Cup 2R in those conditions.
My understanding is Michelin doesn’t even recommend using the P4S under 40*
Real world versus speculation ………SIMPLY go out set cold tire pressures and run aggressively . Tire temperatures will come up and adhesion grip rises concurrently.
Ive driven track events for over 20 years. I was doing DE track events when it was even Snowing at Lime Rock , Watkins Glen. Windshield wipers on/ track damp cold with even a cold front coming in temperature is dropping and you can feel it.
You simply keep going and managing grip on all 4 corners. NO Pussies bench racing….makes you a getter driver. Tire temps and grip might not be optimal like 80 degrees and sunshine BUT it works. Meanwhile the engine loves cold dense air so it makes more alot more power so it’s a trade-off. Its reality. When the “old Porsche 962s were obsolete ……at the ROLEX Daytona 24 it got really really COLD and the old reliable BUT slow 962s won again so its a trade -off. The C8Z06 is a fantastic car BUT heavy so we have to deal with it as it is what it is.
There is going to be a lot more rear road course data coming out soon on C8Z06, 992 GT3, GT4RS , 992 GT3 RS , 296GTB , McLaren Artura , and GT2RS and ZR1 / ZORA. Let’s not nit pick to protect a brand and simply enjoy all the new hardware and NO manual trannys. .
One day we will be a C8Z06 Nordshleife time and until then Im disappointed as I know GM could have posted it BUT likely internal controls corporate counsel advised against it. That being said McLaren and Ferrari dont post RING times. They should but are pussies.
Might get an Arturo as the C8Z06 70th anniversary spider might take too much time. Meanwhile ONLY the C8Z06, 992GT3, GT4RS and 812 Superfast offer exotic sportscar sound! Annilihate everyone at a real race track ! 1100# 440HP. Single seater $350,000 Makes a 992 GT3RS look like an SUV. Volcano yellow metallic . High flow HJS German cats ECU tune it will be a beast.
Real world versus speculation ………SIMPLY go out set cold tire pressures and run aggressively . Tire temperatures will come up and adhesion grip rises concurrently.
Ive driven track events for over 20 years. I was doing DE track events when it was even Snowing at Lime Rock , Watkins Glen. Windshield wipers on/ track damp cold with even a cold front coming in temperature is dropping and you can feel it.
You simply keep going and managing grip on all 4 corners. NO Pussies bench racing….makes you a getter driver. Tire temps and grip might not be optimal like 80 degrees and sunshine BUT it works. Meanwhile the engine loves cold dense air so it makes more alot more power so it’s a trade-off. Its reality. When the “old Porsche 962s were obsolete ……at the ROLEX Daytona 24 it got really really COLD and the old reliable BUT slow 962s won again so its a trade -off. The C8Z06 is a fantastic car BUT heavy so we have to deal with it as it is what it is.
There is going to be a lot more rear road course data coming out soon on C8Z06, 992 GT3, GT4RS , 992 GT3 RS , 296GTB , McLaren Artura , and GT2RS and ZR1 / ZORA. Let’s not nit pick to protect a brand and simply enjoy all the new hardware and NO manual trannys. .
One day we will be a C8Z06 Nordshleife time and until then Im disappointed as I know GM could have posted it BUT likely internal controls corporate counsel advised against it. That being said McLaren and Ferrari dont post RING times. They should but are pussies.
Might get an Arturo as the C8Z06 70th anniversary spider might take too much time. Meanwhile ONLY the C8Z06, 992GT3, GT4RS and 812 Superfast offer exotic sportscar sound! Annilihate everyone at a real race track ! 1100# 440HP. Single seater $350,000 Makes a 992 GT3RS look like an SUV. Volcano yellow metallic . High flow HJS German cats ECU tune it will be a beast.
Why do drag strips usually not run below 50 degrees? You can easily do a burn out and heat up the tires, could it be because the ground needs to be warm as well for you to have grip? I’m not arguing that driving in freezing temps doesn’t help you become a better driver, but we’re talking about setting as fast of time as possible. Why doesn’t Porsche go out when it’s as cold as possible to run the Ring as the cooler it is the more power the engine makes, so they’ll only run faster right?
GM corporate needs to get notified and involved (fly over the engineers, kinda like how they showed up to the SavageGeese video to prep and monitor the car) if these cars are loaned out to European media. And if that was the case, I would have hoped that GM would have refused to have the car run in these stupid conditions that even the tire manufacturer says not to move them in, let alone run laps.
Unfortunately, European car media (especially from the UK and Germany) have an outsized influence in the car world and perceptions across the entire world. So even if few cars are sold in Europe, the PR coming from that part of the world is extremely important and can't neglected.
For a 100 units market? Don't see the ROI and Chevrolet has learned a lot of lessons on the EU market before pulling out.
Plus the market for this segment is sophisticated and can pick a turkey hit piece rather easily? I mean fast lap in Germany at freezing temperatures...? I chuckle just typing it....
And with that chuckle also comes with questions on the article and video credibility. But that is just me.
Quick internet look at Sport Auto says distribution of 50K copies per issue and just with that it is hard for me to comment on whether it's deliberations are extremely important or not.
Again, it's about the massively influential PR emanating from European car media/journalists/personalities, not how many they actually sell there. That strongly affects perceptions of the car/brand and as a result US and global sales, not just European sales.
I'm not saying they should "re-enter" the European market, I'm saying just send over some GM engineers anytime there is a journalism/media test of a Corvette, ESPECIALLY for timed laps. That doesn't require a 24/7 permanent presence on the continent. Having those GM engineers onsite in this case could've been like- "Sorry, no, you're not running the car in these silly/laughable conditions AND the tires aren't even rated to move a few inches in those temps. Either try another day, or we can't do this test at all."
Sport Auto may sell 50k copies per issue but think about how much further their reach is on people who get the news via sharing? This thread being one example. I don't subscribe to that magazine yet I'm receiving their news/information/lap time on the Z06 (via the OP in this case).
I understand what you are saying. I actually understand sales and international sales quite a bit but I think the premise of the product needing an on call international team of engineers for media pandering is obsolete.
To me it is clear that with the C8 platform, GM is pursuing a product makes the marketing and not the way around. Look at how tightly controlled the launches have been. The days of huge media fleets are at the moment obviously gone and unnecessary (aka cost adding).
I would understand your point IF the C8 platform had a sales problem. So to solidify your opinion, IMHO you should make a strong case that there is a C8 Z06 sales problem requiring media attention. I personally don't see it but if you do by all means elaborate.
By some of the naysayers here, GM should immediately stop sales and production of the Z06. Then wait January 2024 and send 15 cars to the Nurburing, force the entire joint to open up and then send cars on the frozen track with CUP2Rs until one makes it to the end!!
Add some humor, I can see the awesome marketing pitch already: YOU ARE NOT A REAL MAN IF YOU DON'T NURBURING TRACK A C8Z06 WITH CUP2Rs ON ICE! What an award winner! :-)
Strictly personal self interest; I would LOVE to see the Auto Sport article convince just about everybody in the world that the Z06 can't handle fast laps on ice and everybody dropping out of the waiting lists and hundreds of Z06s in the lots off 20%. Unfortunately for me I don't see it but if you do please elaborate. I need all the hope I can get.
Magazines sell rumors and Corvette sells cars.
There is a time for both and I think if Sport Auto thought they had a hit piece with this skating exercise... then it is way too late anyway.
I dont think it was a hit piece, and the times were respectable anyway. Real datta is comparing different cars on same tires same day same driver. Ill put any variances down to that.
The magazine I trust is evo and looking forwards to their take on the z06. Theyre brits so have no reason to push the vette as American scribes do. They rated the masser Mc20 above the new ferrari 296, theyre not that into overdone and over powered. Ill bet they love the vette,
id also like to see Chirs Harris take on the car a great driver and semi pro, he loves his Gt3's and may just well fall for the vette.
in any event looking forwards to some warts and all reviews. plus hearing real life track reports from the few posters here and elsewhere who will really track these cars. So far all we really have is some magazine hero laps which tell something, but in other ways very little.
04-21-2023, 11:37 PM
