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Without taking a side on this, I wonder what percentage of 23 Z06's have been sold over MSRP. Are we making a big deal over a small percentage of sales?
I liked how they rolled out the allocation information but given a limited run and 100% guarantee they will all be sold, fairly easy to do vs an unknown term of production (pace and total) for the Z06. I'm sure some folks got the 170 at MSRP while others may state MSRP but paid $100K for floor mats....
Without taking a side on this, I wonder what percentage of 23 Z06's have been sold over MSRP. Are we making a big deal over a small percentage of sales?
I don't have a percentage but I can tell you I have called dealers with inventory in FL, TX, IL, IN, MD, AZ and all have ranged from $10K over to $100K over. Of these all said there would be an ADM even if you go on their waiting list. The in stock cars listed on Car Gurus all have a large ADM.
Not sure how Dodge will know the selling price of a car before it is sold. Nor how they'll prevent a dealer from telling the customer, once the car is received, "Oh, I know we told you MSRP, but now there's a market adjustment of $100,000. Agree with those who say it'll have no effect. Just like GM's and Ford's memos to dealers warning them about violating their franchise agreements. With only 3000 to be built, all of them will get sold, at whatever price the dealer wants.
Neither GM nor Dodge can control the price a dealer sells a car for.
That would be fraud and a good law suit. If I sign an agreement to buy at MSRP that is an enforceable contract. Good luck if the dealers trys to renege. I would be happy to take that to court.
I mean why do you all hate the laws of supply & demand and free market capitalism? This is literally how it works? Dealer buys car from mfg, dealer now owns it and can sell it for whatever they want.
I mean why do you all hate the laws of supply & demand and free market capitalism? This is literally how it works? Dealer buys car from mfg, dealer now owns it and can sell it for whatever they want.
One for the owner of the dealership, one for a charity auction, and the two others to the owners two best friends. All sold at MSRP. Man I really wanted one of these. Was going to trade my Power Wagon for one....
If I sign an agreement to buy at MSRP that is an enforceable contract. Good luck if the dealers trys to renege. I would be happy to take that to court.
You wouldn't get very far. I guarantee the paperwork at delivery says something to the effect of "this agreement supersedes any and all previous agreements..."
I used that to my benefit on my BMW. Had agreed in writing to pay ADM. Took delivery of the vehicle & the finance manager forgot to add the ADM. I signed and drove away. 2 days later received a call from the dealership stating I owed them the ADM to which I simply highlighted the sales agreement that said it superseded any previous agreement and once signed was legally binding.
The purchase agreement and final sales agreement do not need to be the same thing. The dealership can refund your deposit and sell the car to someone else.
You wouldn't get very far. I guarantee the paperwork at delivery says something to the effect of "this agreement supersedes any and all previous agreements..."
I used that to my benefit on my BMW. Had agreed in writing to pay ADM. Took delivery of the vehicle & the finance manager forgot to add the ADM. I signed and drove away. 2 days later received a call from the dealership stating I owed them the ADM to which I simply highlighted the sales agreement that said it superseded any previous agreement and once signed was legally binding.
The purchase agreement and final sales agreement do not need to be the same thing. The dealership can refund your deposit and sell the car to someone else.
In your case you and the dealer signed an agreement that superseded the first agreement. If someone gets something in writing that states he will be sold a car at MSRP and is told at the time of delivery that there will be ADM why would he/she be signing the paperwork at delivery? Depending on the original agreement and other potential factors (consideration, reliance, etc.) he may very well have an enforceable agreement and would be able to raise the issue before signing final paperwork.
Does absolutely nothing. It'll simply create a situation where the dealer will sell at MSRP to "friends of the dealer." The "friend" will then drive the car 100 miles in a month, and then sell it back to the dealer. The car is now "used" and can be sold with a massive ADM, and Dodge's attempt to fix the price goes out the window. The salesman will then tell you some BS sob story about "oh, this car was originally sold to a wealthy long-time client of ours, but he decided to sell it back to us because:"
(A) his wife is having a baby
(B) he's buying a new house
(C) he recently suffered an injury that prevents him from driving
etc etc
This has been the norm at Ferrari for decades, especially for the limited number ones - e.g., Pista, Competitizone, etc. And bypasses all of Ferrari NA's strict rules about MSRP-sales.
In your case you and the dealer signed an agreement that superseded the first agreement. If someone gets something in writing that states he will be sold a car at MSRP and is told at the time of delivery that there will be ADM why would he/she be signing the paperwork at delivery? Depending on the original agreement and other potential factors (consideration, reliance, etc.) he may very well have an enforceable agreement and would be able to raise the issue before signing final paperwork.
All vehicle sales or order agreements that I've seen (purchased ~ 40 vehicles over the years) have clauses that protect the dealer and address any potential price increases. Typically if they refund your deposit, the agreement is null & void. They don't have to sell you a vehicle.
Please post to or a link when someone successfully sues a car dealer for not honoring an MSRP deal.
All vehicle sales or order agreements that I've seen (purchased ~ 40 vehicles over the years) have clauses that protect the dealer and address any potential price increases. Typically if they refund your deposit, the agreement is null & void. They don't have to sell you a vehicle.
Please post to or a link when someone successfully sues a car dealer for not honoring an MSRP deal.
Have you seen the letter provided by MacMulkin? There are no carve outs and manufacturer price increases are totally different than ADMs. I’m not going to go search legal databases for cases because I’m assuming dealerships that make written agreements with legal consideration and without carveouts honor such agreements. Those that provide carveouts are telling you up front that it may happen and those that won’t put anything in writing are making it clear they aren’t willing to make an enforceable commitment. I don’t know your background but I was an attorney for over a decade before switching over to the business side. I know why I went with MM. It’s because they made things very clear in writing.
Perhaps Dodge requires a copy of the sales contract?
I didn't have sales contract (bill of sale) until the car was delivered. That's the way it's been for every car I've ever purchased. And even if Dodge does demand some kind of document, the company still can't prevent the dealer from charging more when the car is delivered.
True but not every one will be. This might even force some of the dealerships to sell at MSRP to make sure their allocations actually get produced. If GM did that with the Z06, it would do wonders for their customers and dealerships like Ciocca, Criswell, MacMulkin would be rewarded.
Dodge cannot "force" a dealer to do anything regarding price. Period.
Until all manufacturers come up with a system this ADM game will happen. I hope GM comes up with something and I also hope Range Rover, Mercedes, Porsche and so on do as well because a few of their models go over MSRP.
Tell me, when demand is low and supplies high, do you also want manufacturers to prevent discounting? Those are two sides of the same coin. If you believe in getting a discount when you can, demanding dealers don't gain in the opposite situation is just hypocrisy. You either believe in capitalism and the law of supply and demand or you believe in price fixing. Can't have it both ways.
Originally Posted by GM Bureaucrat
Wrong take.
"Free market capitalism" would not be the cronyism of the dealer association lobby groups (NADA and state chapters) paying off state governments to ban or limit GM (and other auto manufacturers) from selling directly to the consumer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_...ect_sales_bans
So you consider GM engaging in price-fixing to be "free market capitalism." Interesting viewpoint. I suppose you'd be OK with GM allowing no discounts, too.
That would be fraud and a good law suit. If I sign an agreement to buy at MSRP that is an enforceable contract. Good luck if the dealers trys to renege. I would be happy to take that to court.
LOL. You haven't been paying attention to Corvette sales, have you.Many dealers have done exactly that. Ordered a car for a buyer "at MSRP" and then demanded ADM when it came in. I haven't heard of any lawsuits, have you? Go ahead an take it to court. Odds are you'll lose, and incur large legal fees. Dealers have been doing this for many years.
Armchair lawyers are good for a laugh, but not much else.
Tell me, when demand is low and supplies high, do you also want manufacturers to prevent discounting? Those are two sides of the same coin. If you believe in getting a discount when you can, demanding dealers don't gain in the opposite situation is just hypocrisy. You either believe in capitalism and the law of supply and demand or you believe in price fixing. Can't have it both ways.
Price fixing? So again why is cars held to different standards than your phone? Laptop? Clothes? Shoes? You don't see Best Buy marking up iPhone's that are in high demand. The OEM, Best Buy, Amazon, etc can offer discounts for products that they want to clear inventory out.
The second hand market is supply and demand at work. Why do we need a middle man for buying a new car? Why can't manufactures set the price for the product they made? Corporate dealers don't need to lead to the death of the franchise dealers. Plenty of corporate and franchise stores co-existing out there for Verizon, AT&T, fast food places, etc.
Dodge cannot "force" a dealer to do anything regarding price. Period.
Not necessarily true. Dodge can set the rules such that if a dealership wants to partake, they have to play by the rules that Dodge (or any manufacture) creates. There are ways to make this happen with certainty. Right now, they've just begun to take a step in the right direction in creating a better environment for their end customers. So kudos to Dodge. Still work to be done. Ideally, dealerships go away in the future, and we have direct sales. Current dealerships become service centers with new car showroom/demos and used car sales. It WILL happen without any doubt. When is the only question.
LOL. You haven't been paying attention to Corvette sales, have you.Many dealers have done exactly that. Ordered a car for a buyer "at MSRP" and then demanded ADM when it came in. I haven't heard of any lawsuits, have you? Go ahead an take it to court. Odds are you'll lose, and incur large legal fees. Dealers have been doing this for many years.
Armchair lawyers are good for a laugh, but not much else.
What dealer has provided a written agreement for MSRP without carveouts and accepted a deposit then subsequently charged ADM? I haven’t heard of one. Anything short of that isn’t going to bode well for a buyer because they don’t understand that specific language and legal consideration both matter. Furthermore any dealer unwilling to make things clear in writing and accept a deposit is raising an obvious red flag regarding their commitments. I can’t speak to the Dodge buyer’s specific situation because I haven’t seen what he got in writing nor do I know if any legal consideration was given.
03-31-2023, 10:23 AM
