tsigwing

I got on a very small dealers list (that I had bought from before) and MacMulkin's at the same time. Small dealer got their allocation first by a month.

VetteHalen5150

I still think the issue is a matter of having choice, not getting rid of dealers. Right now, we have NO choice; we have to buy a NEW Corvette from a dealer. If we at least had a choice, we could buy from the manufacturer directly and skip all the shady tactics exclusive to dealerships (forcing unnecessary warranties, lying about financial details, private lists, and on and on). Having multiple sales outlet for ANY product is good for consumers, not bad.

VinnieZR1

So, the UAW workers are just a bunch of scum bags, who don't care about the products they make for you, me, and everyone else? LOL Ive been a teamster/union guy since I was 18 years old.
Ive been in the union construction trades for almost 20 years now. Teamster for 12years before. Ask anyone that knows me. I take pride in everything I build and do. Everything is built better union. Does it cost more? Yes it does. You realize why unions/teamsters strike? It is for better pay, better benefits, better working conditions, more jobs, etc. Don't those families have a right to make their lives better? Every car manufacturer goes through quality issues. Doesn't matter what the make or model is. Vehicles get recalled all the time. If you don't want a UAW built car, fine.. Go buy Toyota, Acura, or any other car you desire. One thing you don't realize, is those non union workers, also make very close to what the UAW workers make. I know this because my brother in law works for Toyota in KY. He told me what he makes, and I was shocked at his hourly wage. But they have no protection and no one to fight for them, if they run into some trouble on the job..

You're big thing is D2C. Did it ever cross your mind, that would probably kill 1000s of jobs? What about Mike Furman? Just cut him and his livelihood right out from under him. Makes great sense. Especially since corvette sales is his bread and butter.

ArmchairArchitect

Why GM and Chrysler went into bankruptcy:

smithers

Oh yeah, yet another thread completely derailed and sent right down the ******* lol

VinnieZR1

Yeah, that was the reason why.. LMAO! Because of a wage graph? LOL. What about Ford?. Recession hit in late 2008. Mind you auto says were already declining for years before then, and top that off with $4+/gallon of gas. There was economic damage everywhere. Merrill Lynch and Citi bank were also in the pooper, so the automakers leaned on the US Gov't. Banks were in worst shape then the automakers.

And those numbers are the TOTAL Package, not the actual wage that is on their checks. You're barking up the wrong tree you know nothing about..

Raisin Man

Agreed. If GM / Chevrolet can require dealers to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars upgrading dealer facilities to standards set by GM - which they have done over the last decade or so - it would seem like a very small step to preference certain dealers with extra ZO6 allocations.

Telepierre

Good inputs and feedbacks so far but it seems the lot is veering towards the injustice of ADMs and dealership dependency.
I am going to try to steer towards the loyalty side of things again and fully understanding that too is perceived as BS and controversial. Nonetheless...

So question for the allocation gurus. I hope by now we understand how C8 allocations work. My understanding of it is that GM sets the rules of allocation based on parameters such as sales run rate, maybe trims, time in inventory and so on. Now GM knows how that turned out statistically. For example, they could easily track the life of a car; things like we sent 100 cars to this dealership and six months later half of them are on sale again... a gross example just for illustration. Indeed in this age they can go much more granular than that and so how about customer and dealership loyalty weighting?

Just an illustration. Charles at the bash clearly stated 'we know what you are doing'
as referenced to car flipping and brokering so what if for the Z06 besides all the normal and historical allocation parameters they also issue a loyalty-based filter (could be another term) weight/preference based on the amount of C8s sent to dealers but short ownership life for lack of a better term.

It is clear ADMs and brokering and flipping are legal but I would think tracking of it and disincentivizing it is also legal.

Scenario: big dealer A has 100 sales run rate and the largest allocation of C8s BUT GM can see post sales that 30% of the VINs are no longer tied to original buyer (the guy that made the original order). Let's say loyalty coefficient 70.
Smaller dealer B has 30 sales run rate but GM can see post sales ownership life close to 90%. That is a loyalty coefficient of 90 and now I think I sufficiently illustrated the thinking..

So dealer A still gets plenty of base C8s BUT actually percentage wise dealer B get's more Z06s with a higher 'loyalty' coefficient....

All wishful thinking, I know...BUT surely the tech to figure this out is there and I think it would be perfectly legitimate under the current dealership licenses terms. Emphasis on I think and that is where the allocation gurus come in.

All predicated on Charles Harlam statement 'we know what you are doing...' :-) Indeed, I think they have more details than that.

StayinStock

I wont argue that point at all, I agree. It just won't likely happen.

Tactical-Speed

You can track it all you want, but it is not illegal for someone to buy X item & flip THEIR PROPERTY for profit. Are we turning into **** Germany now?

Telepierre

Like stated multiple times. Flipping is not illegal and figuring out a way to limit flipping is not illegal either. This is a technology and management play not a **** play.

StayinStock

I still dont understand where we're getting this fallacy that GM actually cares that people are flipping these cars? The hype its created has only increased demand. They just make more money. You keep saying brand degradation but how do you figure that? Corvette is hotter right now than its been in the last 40 years... They can play coy and say they care to appease folks but at the end of the day, GM builds cars to obtain profit. We all play right into their hand.

I agree with Tactical-Speed, what someone does with THEIR property after purchase is THEIR business. Otherwise its a slippery slope into way more than just Z06 sales. As I've stated numerous times... Options: A) order with the big 3 for MSRP and settle in for the long wait and think about how next time you should be more proactive and get on the list early... or B) if you absolutely can't wait to have the latest and greatest Corvette, get out that check book, boss up, and pay the mark up. No amount of whining about how its not fair on here is going to change this system. We're talking about a luxury item, not an essential need. If you can pay to play then do it, if you can't... work harder until you can or be a spectator... simple as that.

Telepierre

Conversely, I don't understand the assumption this thread was started with a personal bias and/or self-interest and dislike.
I am quite detached from it all actually and I try to look at things with a fair share of detachment.

I believe Corvette is a brand built in time. They celebrate 70 years next year and yes the C8 put the brand back in the 40K units per year and it's mostly the car. We know the good ol days of 50K units a year are gone BUT in the old days it was the car and now there is a lot of speculation. Not all of it, just part of it and I do believe speculation hurts the brand.
Ferrari is a classic example of a brand not for sale in speculation and they are kicking butt. They control the game.
So my thread just addresses the tools that may be deployed to address the speculation. Speculation cheapens the brand and I am pretty sure GM would want Corvette to be known for the car and not the hype and speculation around it.
My2Cs..no real skin in the game.

StayinStock

The reason they are only making 40k units a year is not because they cant sell them but simply because they can't keep up. There was a global pandemic that has caused supply chain issues since day one of C8 production and they've been behind the ball ever since. The waiting lists are literally a year to 2 years out. I can almost assure if they could make 50k or even 60k units a year they would be sold. I'm not even sure what you mean by speculation. What are we speculating? What I see is the C8 has brought in a brand new customer base as well as its loyal fans and has created a demand that far outweighs the supply they can produce. All I'm saying is I promise you as long as GM continues to sell out Corvettes and keeps making money nothings going to change unless the economy as a whole takes a massive tank.

Telepierre

40K a year is maximum output if everything works well. I think your theory for demand of 50 and 60K C8 a year is overly optimistic and not realistic. I also follow the daily production stats along with data on TPWs and order dates and at the moment they don't go back two years. Point I am trying to make is that I don't see the kind of demand you describe. In demand yes but not that hyped.

So Corvette has to think strategically about this demand and supply. They know the demand side is also speculative and by speculative, I mean GM knows that a part of that demand is not genuinely sourced for the stated intended purposes. GM wants to see genuine owners on the road with these cars and not sitting in dealerships and brokers garages for years to sell. Look at what is happening to the bitcoin 'brand' right now...not good right? That is what I mean about the speculation...

I and think my theory is playing out right now as more and more dealerships realize they are on the 'black' list and are not getting the allocations to match their deposits.

Don mealy is returning Z06 deposits! - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Z06 Deposit Revoked For Flipping Base C8 - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Is it greed or something else - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

Dealership Response to GM letter about Z06 MSRP - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

StayinStock

The only one of us being overly optimistic is you believing GM gives a damn about how much you pay for their product as long as its over MSRP. I've read all those threads and most of them are people wishful thinking. Dealers are sending back deposits because they want to get rid of the MSRP lock ins so they can sell them at a mark up (to be fair I fully agree that's shady business, but in all not illegal). If you think this will stop flippers though it won't. That just will drive the price up further to buy one third party, and the ones that can pay to play will do it. Case in point c7 ZR1 ZTK cars are currently selling for $250k-ish right now... There's plenty of folks out there that will gladly pay that premium. So even with the dealers pulling this move (and if you think its to combat flippers it not, its to line their own pockets with profit) it wont stop flippers from flipping the car for even more. I really don't understand why everyone on here is so upset about an individual making money on the car but is perfectly ok with the dealer ADM's, its essentially the same thing. Whats amusing to me is most of the people on here whining aren't even potential buyers.

I can see I'm not going to get through to you and you really believe GM cares enough about customer loyalty to combat this "problem". So lets revisit this in 6 months/ a year/ whenever they actually get to dealer lots and see where things stand. Dealers gonna ADM, Flippers gonna Flip, and c8 Z06 will be c8 base all over again but more expensive. Maybe I'm wrong but I'll put good money on being right.

Telepierre

I think there is a big misunderstanding in our back and forth. I am not implying GM 'cares' about ADMs at all.
GM cares about the product, sales and time in inventory. The moment ADMs start impacting those three they bark and find ways to improve the business. Emphasis on business. My theory is predicated on profits and good business practices not wishful emotional caring.

ADMs increase time in inventory and crowds the market.
Car brokering speculates prices higher for then turning into long time seating in inventory.
Both strike at the vey core of the Corvette business model of making a great product at a great price and affordable by many. And this last one they are going to protect at all costs.

I think for the Z06 we are going to see more dealers refunding deposits. I think they know what is coming in terms of allocation and made a quick return of investment of MSRP vs ADMs.

But just like you did, I reiterate mine is a theory and the allocations may turn out to be business as usual.

You are right on the fact that time will tell of course.

To follow...

JerryU

They already announced how they would deal with C8's being sold at well over MSRP. GM does give a ****!

The allocation system has it already built-in they just have to exercise their existing guidelines! Every two weeks the dealer gets a list of what GM suggests they order. It's based on past sales of that model AND considers exiting inventory of that model, be it a Camaro, Silverado or Corvette. BTW the Vette has been every other that normal two week order period. Dealer gets a chance to agree with what that computer defines they "Should Buy" and what they will. As I recall it comes out on a ~Thursday and the dealer has until ~Monday to make their decision. IT INCLUDES their allocation of that model based on prior sales.

They sent in a letter to dealers early in the year they were upset at some dealers changing way over MSRP AND they would consider C8's in stock and subtract from their allocation! They control who gets what! So if a dealer (like the one in Myrtle Beach who advertises and shows several new C8's on TV- and when you ask they are $25,000 over MSRP) they may get zero that order period. They may not give a **** as hey will make ~$20,000 extra on those two before they get their allocation!

Easy to do that with Z06. First round everybody with an allocation gets one. Then Ciocca etc who have all sold at MSRP to an end user, will get whatever their allocation allows next round. Hendrick in Atlanta (who has advertised asking a premium) none if they have their Z06 in stock!

SIDEBAR
​​​​​​I placed a hold-a-spot order for my C7 Z51 with the only dealer I found right after the January 2013 launch who would put in writing it would be at MSRP when they nor I now what that price would be until ~ May! That was Hendrick in Cary NC. In fact, Kerbeck was not taking hold-a-spot orders at the time, as I called Dave having bought my C6 from them.

When my car was delivered in September 2013 the wife and I drove to Cary and when we walked into their very large showroom with many cars my C7 was on the floor! Turned out it was locked and when a potential customer asked to sit in it the salesman (who had no idea who we were) said "Don't have the keys it's a customer car!" Was talking to the sales manager and he was upset GM was ONLY filling orders for end customer cars NOT the ones he had ordered for inventory. He said I could sell more IF I had one to show but when you drive yours away nothing! Yep GM has ways.

FlipMyZ06

GM does not care, that letter they sent out will not curb ADMs. Dealers are allowed to sell over MSRP, period. Wether you like it or not they can and will. Now it is your choice wether you want to buy from them or not, and these dealers that are selling over MSRP, will sell each and every allocation they get. No dealer knows how many Z06 allocations they are getting this time around. They can only estimate from their previous sales of C8s. I was told 30%, but that number could be way lower because of part shortages. Call any dealer right now and ask them, they will all tell you the same thing, they don't know.

These high volume C8 dealers may only get 10% allocations of Z06s, then what? Not to mention they aren't making 30K Z06s every year, it is going to be more like 7-8000, or probably even lower.

StayinStock

My guess is after today alot of potential buyers peaced out anyway, that price tag is salty. They'll sell them no doubt but your gonna have to pay to play. I see 200 plus on decently optioned cars with ADM...