Anyone Else Disappointed by the Lack of Lightweighting Features/Options?
10-27-2021, 09:29 PM
#41
Burning Brakes
Let me start off by saying I give GM a ton of credit for keeping the LT6 engine weight the same as the LT2, and offering carbon fiber wheels as an option. However, I'm not seeing as much as I would like as far as lightweighting options, including some fairly low-hanging fruit, for what is supposed to be the "track" model. And I'm going to caveat that by saying these would be "track" lightweighting options which I would also enjoy on spirited drives on twisty public roads, making the car faster and more agile. And lastly, especially since they would contribute towards the impressive lap times of this car which will inevitably be tested in top performance spec.
I would have like to see some of these either in the Z07 package or as additional options. GM would obviously also benefit from the hefty markups they charge on options.
.
You won't shed hundreds of pounds but you'll shed a LOT, which WILL translate to performance results.
I would have like to see some of these either in the Z07 package or as additional options. GM would obviously also benefit from the hefty markups they charge on options.
.
- Lithium-Ion battery instead of lead-acid starter battery (see: Antigravity batteries, vendor on this forum). Porsche offers this currently.
- Thin all the glass like they did on the C5 Z06. Possibly make the rear engine lid out of Lexan (like on a lot of supercars) instead of glass to save even more weight.
- Titanium exhaust like they did on the C5 Z06
- Lighter weight seats.
- Work with Tremec to lighten the heavy DCT where possible. It appears they planned this but then ditched the magnesium DCT case that was photographed in spy shots (due to known supply constraints?).
- As an extreme option, ditch all the features/luxuries to save weight- just have a 2.1 speaker stereo, heating, and cooling. Remove leather from all coverings. Remove sound deadening material. Think Ferrari F40-level minimalism.
You won't shed hundreds of pounds but you'll shed a LOT, which WILL translate to performance results.
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Sub Driver (10-28-2021)
10-28-2021, 12:13 AM
#43
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Once again (and I stated this in the original post), have them as options, not standard. Not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp and has zero effect on the pricing of the base Z06.
There is a reason GM chose to offer the carbon fiber wheels as an option, and by that same logic they should offer some other lightweight options or a lightweight package as well.
There is a reason GM chose to offer the carbon fiber wheels as an option, and by that same logic they should offer some other lightweight options or a lightweight package as well.
Carbon fiber wheels are an easy and effective way to reduce weight, CCB’s too. But they aren’t going to offer optional light weight glass, magnesium tranny case, etc. Stuff like that is either built into the model or it isn’t. And if they offer things like this as an option, that just further complicates the manufacturing process and would effect the price of both cars optioned with it and without it.
They’ve toyed with the idea of something you seem to be looking for with the de-contented Z06x concept from the C6 days. Hopefully they do a limited production run of these cars this generation later in the models lifecycle to give this niche market what they want and also further help build the brand. This seems like the car to do it on.
10-28-2021, 03:09 AM
#44
Lately Vette's just keep packing weight. The original Zo6 was around 3000llbs. What is this new ZO6?
10-28-2021, 03:13 AM
#45
I wanted either twin turbos, or at least a C6 ZO6 curb weight.
We got neither. I'm out.
We got neither. I'm out.
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JockItch (10-29-2021)
10-28-2021, 06:43 AM
#46
I think the sad reality is that Combination of green police, insurance safety institute have just made cars heavier and heavier. Pedestrian crash protection, rollover protection, increasing front and side crash standards, drive-noise requirements, and emissions. Add to this the effect that Benjamin Franklin mentioned as "A luxury once enjoyed becomes a necessity." All the beautiful leather, ventilated seats, infotainment, NVH, luggage capacity etc etc. It is just the way of the world now.
The good news is that light-weight racing seats, Li batteries, and titanium exhaust will be available in the aftermarket.
The C5Z/C6Z are of a by-gone age. Of course I laugh and point at those "lightweights" in my 1900lb Lotus Elise! Oh and they are way slower than this new C8Z. Embrace the change. Turn on your ventilated seats and enjoy that FPC goodness while planning your C6Z build.....
The good news is that light-weight racing seats, Li batteries, and titanium exhaust will be available in the aftermarket.
The C5Z/C6Z are of a by-gone age. Of course I laugh and point at those "lightweights" in my 1900lb Lotus Elise! Oh and they are way slower than this new C8Z. Embrace the change. Turn on your ventilated seats and enjoy that FPC goodness while planning your C6Z build.....
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Samas (10-28-2021)
10-28-2021, 10:20 AM
#48
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10-28-2021, 10:42 AM
#49
Burning Brakes
All of this has been gone over throughout multiple threads. No need to go in circles.
Also, they’ve done 2 of the 6 things you mentioned in the past and as I understand it the titanium c5 exhaust was only because titanium was cheaper than normal at the time.
Also, they’ve done 2 of the 6 things you mentioned in the past and as I understand it the titanium c5 exhaust was only because titanium was cheaper than normal at the time.
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fzust (10-28-2021)
10-28-2021, 11:56 AM
#50
I ordered a 1LT Z51 mag ride car w/ high wing and 5VM splitter (similar to my 2020 coupe) last week to make into a trackday car until my Z06 comes. GM knows that the folks who will really track it, like me, are willing to modify the car. I've already ordered a new custom seat from Ultrashield, spare wheels, track tires, and a harness bar from Paragon. Car will be setup to GM track specs and enjoyed until my Z06 arrives.
I read that they feel a max of 5% of buyers ever go on track and that's including touring charity laps. 1% maybe actually run HPDEs and less than that compete in Timetrials and such.
The lingering question I have is if there was magnesium content planned that was scrapped due to global supply chain issues.
Personally I think they spent their wad on the engine and the wheels and things like the frame and trans were "good enough".
I read that they feel a max of 5% of buyers ever go on track and that's including touring charity laps. 1% maybe actually run HPDEs and less than that compete in Timetrials and such.
The lingering question I have is if there was magnesium content planned that was scrapped due to global supply chain issues.
Personally I think they spent their wad on the engine and the wheels and things like the frame and trans were "good enough".
10-28-2021, 12:02 PM
#51
Melting Slicks
10-28-2021, 04:05 PM
#52
Racer
Read what Oliver Gavin says about the Z' (https://www.imsa.com/news/2021/10/26...023-z06-model/). If it's good enough for him, then it's ludicrous to be so concerned about "lightening"....if you're going to track it, do what everyone else did with their prior Z06's - remove the seats for lighter (less comfortable) ones, remove the windows and motors, and use titanium and CF bits where feasible.
10-28-2021, 04:50 PM
#53
Melting Slicks
THAT'S hysterical!
10-28-2021, 04:57 PM
#54
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Read what Oliver Gavin says about the Z' (https://www.imsa.com/news/2021/10/26...023-z06-model/). If it's good enough for him, then it's ludicrous to be so concerned about "lightening"....if you're going to track it, do what everyone else did with their prior Z06's - remove the seats for lighter (less comfortable) ones, remove the windows and motors, and use titanium and CF bits where feasible.
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 10-28-2021 at 05:00 PM.
10-28-2021, 05:00 PM
#55
Melting Slicks
The thing you continue to ignore, much of this weight is coming from two areas:
1.) Government safety/emissions mandates
2.) Buyers wanting certain content
Nothing you can do about the 1st. It is what it is. Which is why your ideas of different seats and different glass and different exhaust (as an OPTION) makes zero sense. GM would likely have to certify all of that. Are you willing to pay and extra $15k-$20k just to get your titanium exhaust? Because I'm sure that very few would check that checkbox, so it would be up to you and a handful of others to absorb that cost.
The difference with prior cars, there wasn't an option. You got what you got. You couldn't pick thinner or thicker glass for example. GM obviously could have done that with this car, but they also obviously did analysis on it and determined it was not worth the trouble and expense. The sooner you realize it, the sooner you will either accept it and move on or go buy something else. Continue to whinge about it with arguments based on zero reality is just tedious.
The second, really nothing you or GM can do there either. 2LZ/3LZ outsold 1LZ by something like 3 to 1 EVERY SINGLE GENERATION. Chevy knows this, and it certainly factored into their decisions. The very small percentage of people who want a de-contented car with more NVH are in the sub-5% range at best. Again, Chevy knows this and continuing to ignore these facts and whinging about it is ridiculous.
****, I was very much in the "manual or bust" camp, I made my case, explained my reasoning, Chevy has decided to continue down the DCT only route. Hell, you mentioned the DCT/MT thread... it got closed down. I accepted it and have moved on. May or may not pull the trigger on my Z06 spot because of it... time will tell. I'm certainly not going to keep bitching about it.
And you LITERALLY keep offering the EXACT same arguments over and over. You literally copy and paste them at this point. Example your original post, and your recent reply to Rapid... you've typed that exact couple of sentences over and over (or... CTRL-C+CTRL-V is highly likely as well).
1.) Government safety/emissions mandates
2.) Buyers wanting certain content
Nothing you can do about the 1st. It is what it is. Which is why your ideas of different seats and different glass and different exhaust (as an OPTION) makes zero sense. GM would likely have to certify all of that. Are you willing to pay and extra $15k-$20k just to get your titanium exhaust? Because I'm sure that very few would check that checkbox, so it would be up to you and a handful of others to absorb that cost.
The difference with prior cars, there wasn't an option. You got what you got. You couldn't pick thinner or thicker glass for example. GM obviously could have done that with this car, but they also obviously did analysis on it and determined it was not worth the trouble and expense. The sooner you realize it, the sooner you will either accept it and move on or go buy something else. Continue to whinge about it with arguments based on zero reality is just tedious.
The second, really nothing you or GM can do there either. 2LZ/3LZ outsold 1LZ by something like 3 to 1 EVERY SINGLE GENERATION. Chevy knows this, and it certainly factored into their decisions. The very small percentage of people who want a de-contented car with more NVH are in the sub-5% range at best. Again, Chevy knows this and continuing to ignore these facts and whinging about it is ridiculous.
****, I was very much in the "manual or bust" camp, I made my case, explained my reasoning, Chevy has decided to continue down the DCT only route. Hell, you mentioned the DCT/MT thread... it got closed down. I accepted it and have moved on. May or may not pull the trigger on my Z06 spot because of it... time will tell. I'm certainly not going to keep bitching about it.
And you LITERALLY keep offering the EXACT same arguments over and over. You literally copy and paste them at this point. Example your original post, and your recent reply to Rapid... you've typed that exact couple of sentences over and over (or... CTRL-C+CTRL-V is highly likely as well).
Last edited by vndkshn; 10-28-2021 at 05:03 PM.
10-28-2021, 05:02 PM
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And I'm going to throw another variable into the equation: if GM wants to be serious about their new GT3 program, they're going to have to offer some/all of these in those customer GT3 cars (which will be based on the C8 Z06), at which point they might as well offer them in the road cars as well.
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 10-28-2021 at 05:03 PM.
10-28-2021, 05:08 PM
#57
Don't need a track to enjoy the better performance and driving characteristics/agility from a lighter weight car. Same logic as you don't need a drag strip (also a track) to enjoy a car that's faster in a straight line. Plenty of public roads with twists and turns.
But, we didnt get a lighweight car, did we?
We got a fat pig, with a gutless motor for the street.
It needed twin turbos at 3700lbs.
But, you guys can keep picking fights with us turbo guys, and making fools of yourselves.
We will get the last laugh when we regularly humiliate you with forced induction on the highways and straighaways.
You'll be left in the dust mumbling incoherently about your $100k 3700lb raaace car and the cool noise it makes, and your imaginary road race career.
10-28-2021, 05:59 PM
#58
Carbon fiber wheels are an easy and effective way to reduce weight, CCB’s too. But they aren’t going to offer optional light weight glass, magnesium tranny case, etc. Stuff like that is either built into the model or it isn’t. And if they offer things like this as an option, that just further complicates the manufacturing process and would effect the price of both cars optioned with it and without it.
They’ve toyed with the idea of something you seem to be looking for with the de-contented Z06x concept from the C6 days. Hopefully they do a limited production run of these cars this generation later in the models lifecycle to give this niche market what they want and also further help build the brand. This seems like the car to do it on.
They’ve toyed with the idea of something you seem to be looking for with the de-contented Z06x concept from the C6 days. Hopefully they do a limited production run of these cars this generation later in the models lifecycle to give this niche market what they want and also further help build the brand. This seems like the car to do it on.
The thing you continue to ignore, much of this weight is coming from two areas:
1.) Government safety/emissions mandates
2.) Buyers wanting certain content
Nothing you can do about the 1st. It is what it is. Which is why your ideas of different seats and different glass and different exhaust (as an OPTION) makes zero sense. GM would likely have to certify all of that. Are you willing to pay and extra $15k-$20k just to get your titanium exhaust? Because I'm sure that very few would check that checkbox, so it would be up to you and a handful of others to absorb that cost.
The difference with prior cars, there wasn't an option. You got what you got. You couldn't pick thinner or thicker glass for example. GM obviously could have done that with this car, but they also obviously did analysis on it and determined it was not worth the trouble and expense. The sooner you realize it, the sooner you will either accept it and move on or go buy something else. Continue to whinge about it with arguments based on zero reality is just tedious.
The second, really nothing you or GM can do there either. 2LZ/3LZ outsold 1LZ by something like 3 to 1 EVERY SINGLE GENERATION. Chevy knows this, and it certainly factored into their decisions. The very small percentage of people who want a de-contented car with more NVH are in the sub-5% range at best. Again, Chevy knows this and continuing to ignore these facts and whinging about it is ridiculous.
****, I was very much in the "manual or bust" camp, I made my case, explained my reasoning, Chevy has decided to continue down the DCT only route. Hell, you mentioned the DCT/MT thread... it got closed down. I accepted it and have moved on. May or may not pull the trigger on my Z06 spot because of it... time will tell. I'm certainly not going to keep bitching about it.
And you LITERALLY keep offering the EXACT same arguments over and over. You literally copy and paste them at this point. Example your original post, and your recent reply to Rapid... you've typed that exact couple of sentences over and over (or... CTRL-C+CTRL-V is highly likely as well).
1.) Government safety/emissions mandates
2.) Buyers wanting certain content
Nothing you can do about the 1st. It is what it is. Which is why your ideas of different seats and different glass and different exhaust (as an OPTION) makes zero sense. GM would likely have to certify all of that. Are you willing to pay and extra $15k-$20k just to get your titanium exhaust? Because I'm sure that very few would check that checkbox, so it would be up to you and a handful of others to absorb that cost.
The difference with prior cars, there wasn't an option. You got what you got. You couldn't pick thinner or thicker glass for example. GM obviously could have done that with this car, but they also obviously did analysis on it and determined it was not worth the trouble and expense. The sooner you realize it, the sooner you will either accept it and move on or go buy something else. Continue to whinge about it with arguments based on zero reality is just tedious.
The second, really nothing you or GM can do there either. 2LZ/3LZ outsold 1LZ by something like 3 to 1 EVERY SINGLE GENERATION. Chevy knows this, and it certainly factored into their decisions. The very small percentage of people who want a de-contented car with more NVH are in the sub-5% range at best. Again, Chevy knows this and continuing to ignore these facts and whinging about it is ridiculous.
****, I was very much in the "manual or bust" camp, I made my case, explained my reasoning, Chevy has decided to continue down the DCT only route. Hell, you mentioned the DCT/MT thread... it got closed down. I accepted it and have moved on. May or may not pull the trigger on my Z06 spot because of it... time will tell. I'm certainly not going to keep bitching about it.
And you LITERALLY keep offering the EXACT same arguments over and over. You literally copy and paste them at this point. Example your original post, and your recent reply to Rapid... you've typed that exact couple of sentences over and over (or... CTRL-C+CTRL-V is highly likely as well).
But, we didnt get a lighweight car, did we?
We got a fat pig, with a gutless motor for the street.
It needed twin turbos at 3700lbs.
But, you guys can keep picking fights with us turbo guys, and making fools of yourselves.
We will get the last laugh when we regularly humiliate you with forced induction on the highways and straighaways.
You'll be left in the dust mumbling incoherently about your $100k 3700lb raaace car and the cool noise it makes, and your imaginary road race career.
We got a fat pig, with a gutless motor for the street.
It needed twin turbos at 3700lbs.
But, you guys can keep picking fights with us turbo guys, and making fools of yourselves.
We will get the last laugh when we regularly humiliate you with forced induction on the highways and straighaways.
You'll be left in the dust mumbling incoherently about your $100k 3700lb raaace car and the cool noise it makes, and your imaginary road race career.
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10-28-2021, 07:33 PM
#59
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10-28-2021, 08:40 PM
#60
If ... Chevrolet loses its mind and decides to do a special light weight version, like BMW, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, and Porsche have all done, idiots that they are, I think that by far the easiest and cheapest way to do it is ditch the factory seats for some lightweight manually adjustables from Recaro or some other aftermarket manufacturer. I don't know what these C8 seats weigh, but the C7 seats were incredibly heavy, coming in around 60 pounds each. Before people start going off on me, Cadillac made Recaros available on the CTS-V. On one of my earlier Vettes, my manual passenger seat was 15 pounds lighter than the electric drivers seat, and they were both far lighter than what is being stuffed into cars today. So if you spec a Z07 with the CF wheels and ceramic brakes, you're maybe looking at around 80 pounds lighter. Seats could put it at 100 pounds or more. You're probably not going to find big chunks after that, but 100 pounds can legitimately make a claim of being a lightweight version.
Oh, and radio delete too, since the people who really love audio will probably rip it out and replace it anyway.
Oh, and radio delete too, since the people who really love audio will probably rip it out and replace it anyway.
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