UnhandledException

Lighter - by a lot.

Porsche makes a track version of their base car (GT3) and goes lighter than their base model. Corvette makes a track version of their base car (Z06) and adds the same amount of weight Porsche loses (maybe even more). Two companies taking opposite approaches.

How can this happen?

449er

I don't think that in today's market a lightweight stripped-down Corvette would sell very well, everyone wants a 12" display/alcantara covered heated & cooled seats/rear & front cameras/front lift, etc. The last light weight true performance Corvette was a C6 ZO6

UnhandledException

No one is saying make a stripped car. Instead dont make your base car massive in dimensions to begin with and use better architecture to allow less weight. If everything starts from a bad foundation, you cant really loose weight suddenly.

Higgs Boson

The Z06 should be a twin turbo 9,000 RPM V8 fixed roof coupe miata with the same interior it has now but will also fit your average 250 lb dude without squishing his *****, ok GM, hope you didn't already start drawing the C9, this is what we want. Also, make sure it's $95k.

fzust

Fixed it for you.

fzust

I think the car is an unfortunate outcome of having to be too many things to too many people. Not only does it have to meet the GM goal of being mass-market and affordable, it also has to be able to accommodate 1000hp for the ZR1, all the latest comfort and conveniences AND electrification for E-ray etc. etc.

That adds pounds. The reality is that at 3700lbs with the tire, aero, and power they have, there is a shot at sub 7 minutes at the Ring. Regardless if it could be better, it will be in rare company and probably the least expensive car to do so.

village idiot

That's because it's not a GT3 type package. GM doesn't have a GT3/GT3RS package for the Corvette. That's more like a 1LE package.

The Stingray to Z06 is honestly closer to a Carrera to Turbo S than a Turbo S to a GT3.
Nothing is stripped. It's just more power, bigger brakes, tires, etc.

The GT3 makes less power (and less cost?) than the Turbo S and is truly meant for track usage. The Z06 isn't a "track variant" in as much its just a faster street car variant.
Neither is a perfect comparison, especially with this generation, but I think that's closer. Certainly, with the C7, that's the case. The Z06 added boost, brakes, etc like the Turbo does over the base model. The Z07 package is more like like the "S" package on the Turbo.


A GT3/GT3RS package is not what you want if you're never going to track it. It honestly makes it a worse weekend street car, aside from stuff like resale and cool factor. Less power, less sound damping, and I think stuff like solid bushings and god-awful center lugs. On the other hand, a Z06/7 is a hell of a lot more fun than a stingray.

Latterlon

This has been my contention with the C8 Z06. The car is too heavy for what we want it to be, and wanting it to be much lighter doesn't mean we want a no A/C, no radio type of car. The reality is the Z06 became something different with the C7 Z06. Tadge loves the Corvette to have a broad "bandwidth", which is great(!) for the Stingray, but with a Z06, ZR1, and seemingly an AWD hybrid and maybe a mega-vette on the way, there is plenty of "bandwidth" in the entire C8 catalog to offer very specific flavors for every buyer. The Z06 should be (IMO) the lightest, loudest and sharpest of the bunch. Want one as a convertible? Ok, but make it a Z06 "Spyder" or "Roadster". There should be a earnest reduction in weight, as every metric would improve. The C8's bones are dense, so making big weight savings becomes difficult.

Each model has been offered in every trim and body type since the C7, and in so doing each model becomes a bit less special from one to the other. At some point if you offer everything, you offer nothing.

nitrojunky

Speak for yourselves, I want a stripped light weight variant. Maybe keep AC (make it optional for northern peeps), but ditch all infotainment, sound deadening, carpet, add proper buckets, etc.

Like a clubsport Porch, but street legal.

Or if they want to sell >5 cars, at least make a car headed in that direction like RS Porsches... which are about the only non pure exotic example which comes to mind for modern cars. Even Lotus is getting fat.

1985 Corvette

You’ve summed it up very well on Corvette’s biggest problem. Many want the car to be everything for nothing. Also, the idea that it needs to be affordable, yet exclusive is one I’ve never been able to comprehend.

Racer X

Lotus did that and they didn't sell, because they were too small and not enough features. They were hard core, lightweight, fantastic feel, but too little power for the US market. They failed.

Corvette wanted a big V8 and a longitudinal rear mid-engine configuration, everything follows from there.

If you think the Corvette is such a failure, why are you on a list? What are you doing here?

RedLS6

It's very overconstrained in terms of design goals, as the C7Z was. While the C7 suffered some engineering fuckups mistakes compromises, due to this (blower @ 50% efficiency), I think they've worked hard to avoid similar issues here. They also are hampered with the increasing weight of the wiring and electronics, which easily adds 100+ pounds over older models. With respect to weight I agree with you - weight cuts need to be engineered in from the start, and not bolted on at the end.

village idiot

The Lotus had other issues that caused its failure like being an impossibly impractical street car/daily driver and its fragile clamshell. I'm more "hardcore" than 99% of potential sports car buyers and I wouldn't want a lotus for my first or even second car. I'm not really interested in a boring 14 second street car that lacks every creature comfort and is a rolling coffin in terms of safety. It's only like 2 seconds faster 1/4mi than my GX460, which I'm fairly confident was designed to be the most boring fullsize luxury SUV ever. An Elise is like... a fourth car or a track car.
I'd need to get the exige if I was even considering a Lotus, and that was $75k or so back in 2008. 14 years ago, $75k got you the 505hp, 7.0L Z06 and for a little more you could probably grab a Viper or a 911. No one wanted a $75k kit car.

However, your point is taken. HP, 0-60, etc. sells street cars. It's not handling or weight.

village idiot

Sure, but it's not like the base 911 is some sort of no compromise chassis from the beginning. They make the GT3RS starting from a car that is an AWD 2+2 coupe. The Z06 does not accommodate/work off a chassis that has back seats or AWD. I think people miss this. The non-GT 911s have just as much "bandwidth" and cover just as much of the car spectrum as the Corvette, if not more, other than cost.

It's all fine and dandy that the Corvette can carry golf clubs and they love to brag about this, but it doesn't have AWD or a back seat, and the 911 can carry your golf clubs as well. When it comes to which is a better daily driver, and covers more "bandwidth" I'm not sure how you can make the argument for Corvette over 911.

So all in all, this "bandwidth" and golf club argument doesn't excuse the size and weight IMO.

wthensler

I have never owned a Corvette, and probably won’t own a Z06, but I am rooting for GM, and understand the predicament they’re in. I appreciate that it’s a $200k car with $400k expectations. Never a good situation to be in.

Problem with Ferrari is they’ve gotten away with so much for so long that customers have come to accept it.

Were it not for the ADM, I submit that Porsche is the sweet spot in performance, all factors considered.

Jridden

I think trying to be everything to most sports cars buyers out there is an impossible task. I'm waiting for the magazine reviews. I will not likely get Z07 and just track the car with the base package. It'll still be far far more capable than what my skill level will be able to extract.

PurpleLion

The C8 Z06/Z07 is roughly $50,000 less than a similarly configured Porsche GT3 and is a much more capable car in almost every way. The GT3 finally has a real front suspension after years of struts, so now the magazines can finally admit that the previous strut suspension was not optimal. But, a comparison between the C8 Z06/Z07 vs GT3 will show the GT3 wanting.

What is next for Porsche, make the GT3 mid engine? Or add a real front suspension to the Cayman? Porsche is now playing catchup to the Corvette. For sure, there are some very expensive Porsche versions that Corvette doesn't compete with, especially the new GT3 RS. But for the foreseeable future, the war is over and the C8 is the winner. Plus, there are probably a twin turbo, a hybrid and the Zora to go. The 2024 C8 GT3.R will be out soon enough to compete with the Porsche GT3 R. So, in the final analysis you can have a dependable flat 6 or a V8 sports car that can be used as a daily driver and also do some laps on the weekend.

In the fifties and sixties one of the design goals of a sports car was that a car should be able to be driven to a track, acquit itself well in a race and be able to be driven back home. I believe that the C8 Z06/Z07 will be able to accomplish this.

Yes, the C8 is heavier, no question, but the added weight is offset by 2 more cylinders. Sorry, this is Merica and we love our V8s.

village idiot

The last Z06 couldn't keep itself from falling into limp mode, or at best, pulling a ton of timing on a race track. It's down nearly 200hp and will, at worst, be a close race around a road course. I'm not sure that making up for 200hp in turns is going to leave any GT3 owner "wanting" Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Also, if you are comparing base to base, a Z06 without the Z07 package and aero is probably not going to fare as well as you think against a GT3 since the GT3 is "fully loaded" as far as performance goes, save CCB.

Regardless, I doubt there's a single GT3/GT3RS owner out there thinking "man, I really wish I got the Corvette instead."

Racer X

The last Z06 went into limp home because it was supercharged, and had cooling designed for tracking at a max of 86 degrees. The new one is designed 100 degree track temperature and is not heat burdened with a supercharger.

I can promise there are Corvette owners that are out here thinking “I sure am glad I got the Corvette instead of any Porsche 911.” If given the choice of a new Z06 built to my spec vs a GT3 or GT3 RS along with consumables free for a year, I would choose the Corvette. Are the other cars I would like to drive for a year more than the Corvette Z06 for a year free? Yes absolutely, The 911 is a compromised design, even more so than the Corvette.

JG853

To be fair, the C7 ZO6 M7 did not suffer the same issues as the A8s. There are plenty if guys tracking them with no issues in the M7. Then, Lou G at LG Motorsports came up with the fix and guys who have that solution (Which was later adopted by GM for the C7 ZR1) do not have any issues tracking them. This fix is relatively not expensive when comparing a C7 Z06 to a C8 Z06 (Base to base MSRP).