Arrowsigns

Chip shortage part culprit. Used car prices through the roof and the base C8 still getting over msrp if your lucky enough to find one. Strange days indeed.

GordyRay

We have waited longer than normal, it seems like, for the ZO6 to be revealed. I will wait for the reveal through July. If no show then I will order a different car, maybe the Stingray. I have owned three ZO6 cars and they have been fabulous cars, but I am getting older and don't want to wait. Even if it is revealed in July, I won't have the car for at least 24 more months like in August of 2023. Many of us have been zeroed in on the ZO6 since the revealed of the Stingray, so that is an excessive wait time. Normally I wouldn't bitch on here but this entire C8 rollout has become hideous mostly due to the 'falsely' overwhelming pandemic. If it weren't for my age I would just wait but I am giving up some good driving time and life is precious. Basically just getting impatient with GM. Maybe order a HTC Stingray because it will be here sooner than the ZO6 and hopefully by then there will be answers on the best way to enhance the performance mods. Come On GM throw us a Bone!!!!!

JadeRaven

At this point I'm like got damn should I just buy another base C8 to tide me over...

kratedisease

anyone.... , anyone...... Bueller ?..... Bueller ?

kratedisease

I personally am speculating or guessing that the Z06 is delayed until more of the base models are built and sold.

There is a huge backlog of demand and orders. And I believe that GM will try to sell as many base models as they can before revealing the Z06 and ZR1 and Zora.

It just about money. The platform will only be around for 7 or 8 years most likely, so GM has to pump out as many cars as they can to get the greatest return on investment.

The specialty models are usually released once the initial pop in demand starts to slow down. In most cases, using the previous C6 and C7 platforms, that meant once around 60K to 90K base models are pumped out and the initial excitement starts to wane a bit.

So far I think we are at around 28K produced so far for USA. Assuming that the double shift continues and the part shortages stop going forward, that means we still have year or even two to go before the Z06 goes into production.

Its just about maximizing the platform for return on investment.

Z06 is not going to be introduced until at least 60K cars have already been manufactured..... IMO





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~Josh

For once in history GM is doing a great job at keeping a secret.

vettesweetnos

Most of that I agree with but I think the C8 generation will last at minimum 10 years, mostly for the same reasons you brought up. If a Z06 isn't coming until 3 years behind the base, that's already crazy. And people think that 6 different variants are coming yet all a year apart, give me a break. I'll ride my unicorn to the dealers where all these different variants are waiting for me. Alot of the C8 stringray excitement is waning and everyone is ready for the performance Z06 model, I know I have been since the stingray reveal.

RapidC84B

I don't understand the logic... if you have limited parts you'd rather be producing your highest margin product. The C6 and C7 Z06s both came in the 2nd MY of production while the base car was still sold out.

kratedisease

Correct.

I just sat in a convertible this week for the first time ( my dentist got a vert and allowed me to sit inside) , and I also noticed a bit LESS HEADROOM compared to my coupe.

kratedisease

because..... the people who want a Z06, ZR1 and Zora will always wait.

Its not like the people who want those models are NOT going buy a Z06, ZR1, or Zora when they are released because they had to wait a year or 18 months longer.

Whom ever wants a ZR1, Z06, Zora will wait no matter what. GM knows they are not going away because of any delays. The same goes for most base buyers. We all had to wait for the strike and Covid19, and part shortage plant shut downs. We all tolerated they delays, at least 98% of us. Not like we said F-it because we had to wait.

As far as profit margins, I believe that the Z06 is very profitable due to huge volume. Same with grand sport models on C7 platform. I personally do not believe GM makes much on the ZR1 because of the minuscule volume. Each engine requires expensive/costly gov't certification, not to mention engineering development costs. At very low volume these expensive ENGINE development costs are most likely a loser financially, but using the profitable base chassis that is already developed allows the entire ZR1 to be at least marginally profitable OVERALL as it leaves the assembly line. And again, remember not many ZR1's are ever sold. Not that much demand. On the other hand Z06 and grand sports are high volume. I am guessing 2000 per year is the break point for making a TOTAL return profit ( after engine development costs )on the Z06, and the grand sport is pure profit since in the C7 it uses the same engine, but just small body and suspension changes at a higher price point.

I understand that speculation is that the grand sport might be hybrid. If thats true then development costs will be higher and will OVERALL reduce profit per vehicle.

I also now agree, (and change my opinion) now to the fact/guess that the C8 platform might be a 10 year plus platform. Yes, this C8 platform was more expensive to engineer and develop and as a result, yes, I now agree that we are looking at a minimum 10 year production run on the platform to recoup development costs on this C8 platform, not including different variants.

And if it is a minimum 10 year production run, it makes sense to spread out the release of specialty models every 3 years or so apart.

There is a specific reason the model variants are delayed.

What if the Z06 was introduced first before the base model ? would you buy the base model afterwards ? of course not !

By making us all buy the base model first while we wait for the Z06 and ZR1 and Zora, GM has gotten us to buy several C8's from them, thereby increasing sold volume and end profit.

If GM was able to pump out 40K cars the first two years ( and the early adaptors like us tend to option up to more expensive cars) then I believe that the Z06 would be introduced. Due to strike, covid, parts shortage, they have been unable to produce the volume of base models need to be sold to recoup the platform development costs yet. After 60-90K base cars are sold, then only will we see a ZO6.



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foreignbishop

I have gathered the Stingray backlog is dwindling down. I don't know if anyone else knows the answer, but I would surmise the Stingray waiting lists are becoming shorter than the Z06 list/s.

kratedisease

Doesn't make a difference to GM how long the "waiting lists" are !

GM couldn't care less what demand is...... GM needs to DUMP as many C8 cars onto dealers whether or not these dealers even need or want them.... PERIOD.

Its about DUMPING as many cars onto dealers and forcing dealers to take them, regardless of wether they sell or not. Thats the dealers problem, and the dealers job to get them off their lots, PERIOD....... thats the car business model.

foreignbishop

Then that means they don't care about fulfilling any orders before releasing the Z06 and it will come out when it's done being developed. As John at MECF has said many times before: The car will be released when development is done. They're not going to hold back. If they cared about base model buyers then they would care equally about Z06 buyers. If we agree they don't care, then the release of the Z06 has zero to do with how many base models they can or CANNOT (in this case) produce. That means, Z06 isn't finished being developed yet. If it was, we'd know about a reveal.

jvp

Gee, if only someone here has been saying the same thing for the past... uhh.... six months? Longer?

Hm.

Kodiak Bear

IMO, we're missing the BIG driver which is the impact of product announcements on stock holder value which makes stock option plans for the executives compensation packages so valuable. In this day and age, all Mary has to do is say "electric": and the stock price goes up. Fund managers and retirement funds want Tesla to crash and GM and Ford to go up. This emphasis wasn't there when the past Vetts,, C7 and back, were marketed. It wasn't there when the C8 was first introduced but it is the major driver now. The major inhibitor is parts supply. The major fear for GM is will the buyers really make the purchase or is all the e talk just hype. GM hopes that any e car will bring people to the show room floor so they'll buy something! They are not looking for Vett to do that anymore.

The Vett doesn't play in that halo game anymore.

IMO GM will "let" Vett introduce the cars already developed as they said they would when they broke up the Vett engineering team. But "e" is now the halo to bring in traffic not the Vett. Forget the past role that the Vett played in the overall GM marketing scheme. Right now GM has no idea what the future role is for the Vett . A lot of decisions are being made real time and being remade. GM isn't saying because they flat don't know. They're winging it as is the rest of the industry. But they're aren't going to say in public that "we don't know".

rob62

Z was likely done before the present war on oil. Now it's a scramble to devolve in secrecy.

jvp

No. It wasn't. But continue believing the contrary if you like.

Redc8z06

One indication I'm looking at is Corvettes at Carlisle if GM doesn't show up with a Z06 at this event (which I don't believe they will) we won't be seeing a Z06 for CY2021.
Why add more demand when you can't even meet current demand. Then add parts shortages and right hand drive demand I just don't see them adding another model until next year.

What's also happening is demand for the Stingray is increasing as people either give up on waiting for the Z06 and buy a Stingray or buy a Stingray as in my case to fill a gap until the Z06 comes out.

jvp

The team still isn't sure they're going to be able to attend Carlisle this summer. The company still has a "no travel" policy for the engineers which is why you saw Tadge, Harlan, et al doing virtual presentations at the April event. Whether that corp policy changes between now and then is unknown.

And you won't ever see GM introduce a new model at Carlisle. Models are introduced in more global/international platforms and then later shown at other shows. That means: if the car isn't introduced somehow before Carlisle, you're not going to see it there.

foreignbishop

I really disliked your posts as I waded through the waters of not seeing a Z06 as a 22' model but now that I've accepted it won't be there's no reason they can't finish the model in time to be a 23' with all the siting's we've seen in addition to the beta's rolling off the line. We're halfway through 2021. Typically, we see things in December/January so I've turned my cautious optimism in that direction. Maybe we'll know something in Oct/Nov about a future reveal. For now, it's just mules and maybe a trip to The Ring before anything concrete. Feel free to poo poo any of my opinion LOL.