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You did when you said you need to get rotors from Essex and all others are junk. There is a major difference in drilled rotors where someone just drills a hole and when a hole is machined with a fillet in it. First our rotors are made in the USA and they have machined fillets in them. I do not advertise them for road racing. We advertise them for cosmetic and the guys looking to get rid of as much weight as possible for drag racing. The thickness of the rotor also makes a huge difference, and depending on how it is being used. I mean you can't run a light weight rotor on a Corvette with a aggressive pad and then just pull into the pits and stop, you will crack a rotor and even running a cool down lap, if you are aggressive on the brake you will probably crack one. A HD rotor with a face of at least .300 is tough and you can pretty much run a season on one if you don't abuse them. All of our race stuff is HD 2 piece bolted or floating and not drilled. I have run the drilled when I had to and have not had an issue, but I would not recommend it.
I am use to running the EBC brake pads on my previous track day cars/vehicles, are those a good pad to run on a Corvette, or is there another pad that is used more often? I realize there is not much data on the C8 yet, so I guess it would be based on the C7 data and with drilled /slotted rotors? I use to run the Green pads on drilled rotors from Speedtech or Wilwood
I’ve had several Porsche rotors crack, some after 3-4 track days. Everyone of the cracks originated at a drill hole and propagated to the edge.
Years ago I posted a "bounty" of $500 on a popular forum for proof of the elusive "cast holes rotor" and have yet to pay out. We dug up a lot of good info and some cool images, US, European, spoke with engineers and casting experts. All of which agreed the mold to produce such an item on a mass a scale would be insanely complex and costly. Even the largest casting house we found in Europe confessed when pushed that the "holes were drilled but we strengthen the area around the hole and chamfer them" (or the like) in which case they were of course drilled and still subject to the sharp edges of a cutting tool all of which we agreed was to be avoided in a proper and true Casting.
We are also working with a company to provide this for you guys. The braking system on this car is VERY complex so it's gonna be tricky.
There is absolutely nothing complex about the rotors and calipers. The electornics for the brake by wire have to be minded for bleeding and when selecting higher friction pads to stay out of the "fade warning" speed limiter codes. Replacing the Z51 rotors with a floating 2-part unit just requires someone to measure the stock stuff.
Most reports so far say the stock Z51 pads may actually be ok for HPDE use even with an advanced drivrer. I was hoping to have had my car and had it at Hyperfest at VIR next weekend, but of course that's not happening.
There is absolutely nothing complex about the rotors and calipers. The electornics for the brake by wire have to be minded for bleeding and when selecting higher friction pads to stay out of the "fade warning" speed limiter codes. Replacing the Z51 rotors with a floating 2-part unit just requires someone to measure the stock stuff.
Most reports so far say the stock Z51 pads may actually be ok for HPDE use even with an advanced drivrer. I was hoping to have had my car and had it at Hyperfest at VIR next weekend, but of course that's not happening.
‘what do you mean by the electronics have to be minded with more aggressive pads? I just ordered some.
‘what do you mean by the electronics have to be minded with more aggressive pads? I just ordered some.
Best start googling... you're in uncharted territory with track pads. The car creates artificial pedal feel so you can't feel when the brakes fade. As such there are 2 levels of fade warnings. 1 is "back off" and 2 is "brake system fault" brake system fault limits the car to 62 mph and requires a dealer visit to reset. Track pads which can run hotter without fading may trick the car into fade warnings when nothing is actually wrong. Uncharted territory... @GSpeed is doing testing now.
Pretty dumb to use drilled or groovy rotors other than for DFs at cars shows. Holes will provide the nulclii for fatigue or stress cracks to begin. Grooves will eat up pads. Gas dissipation is absurd. Both will be less efficient. Uni directional slots are good but remember, a rotor is a heat sink. Heat must be dissipated rapidly. The larger rotor with the greater mass will be able to absorb more heat at the cost of unsprung weight and will take longer to cool.
Your brakes create more HP than your engine, even on your Z06. 4000hp for a F1 car to stop from 200 mph. For road courses or short ovals, NASCAR rotors are huge. For large ovals, tiny rotors are used.
Your brake requirements depend on the application. Most road course have sufficient brake cool down sections for smaller rotors.
Cast Iron is cheap and good but heavy. Ceramic and carbon brakes are expensive. Carbon brakes on street cars are very different from F1 carbon brakes. A C8 is going to use bakes and tires big time.
Years ago I posted a "bounty" of $500 on a popular forum for proof of the elusive "cast holes rotor" and have yet to pay out. We dug up a lot of good info and some cool images, US, European, spoke with engineers and casting experts. All of which agreed the mold to produce such an item on a mass a scale would be insanely complex and costly. Even the largest casting house we found in Europe confessed when pushed that the "holes were drilled but we strengthen the area around the hole and chamfer them" (or the like) in which case they were of course drilled and still subject to the sharp edges of a cutting tool all of which we agreed was to be avoided in a proper and true Casting.
Was good stuff. Still have the cash tho! lol
I agree with that, I was also told the reason the Porsche hardly ever broke a rotors and they were always drilled is because they were cast. The holes had machined fillets as well but they were cast. I did see a cutaway at maybe PRI or SEMA I can't remember which that had a section of rotor that had cast holes in it but it was a small section. No mention of what it came off of. He had a bunch of different rotor cutaways and I think he was selling rotors that were machined down and had carbon pucks added to them. I was looking because we were trying to come up with a carbon rotor that wouldn't require a loan for someone to purchase.
Pretty dumb to use drilled or groovy rotors other than for DFs at cars shows. Holes will provide the nulclii for fatigue or stress cracks to begin. Grooves will eat up pads. Gas dissipation is absurd. Both will be less efficient. Uni directional slots are good but remember, a rotor is a heat sink. Heat must be dissipated rapidly. The larger rotor with the greater mass will be able to absorb more heat at the cost of unsprung weight and will take longer to cool.
Your brakes create more HP than your engine, even on your Z06. 4000hp for a F1 car to stop from 200 mph. For road courses or short ovals, NASCAR rotors are huge. For large ovals, tiny rotors are used.
Your brake requirements depend on the application. Most road course have sufficient brake cool down sections for smaller rotors.
Cast Iron is cheap and good but heavy. Ceramic and carbon brakes are expensive. Carbon brakes on street cars are very different from F1 carbon brakes. A C8 is going to use bakes and tires big time.
The drilled rotor is not something I would install on a road race car, however I have never seen any data showing that a grooved rotor accelerated pad wear. Brembo, AP, Alcon all of them have their own version of gas slots in the rotors, maybe it's marketing maybe it isn't but I have never seen proof of one way or another.
The braking system on this car is VERY complex so it's gonna be tricky.
Creating unnecessary FUD where it's not needed. Well done. As Tool said: brakes are brakes. The mechanics of said aren't "tricky" or "complex" at all, regardless of the vehicle they're on.
The C7R uses J hooks on the rotors, if it was proven that these accelerated the wear I am sure they wouldn't use it.
Once again, grooves and holes are for the boulevard glamor crowd. Brake manufactures have to sell to these people so they sponsor race teams including the C7R and C8R. Grooves, and J Hooks and holes cause cracks. Grooves can cause catastrophic rotor failures. WRC and LMP cars don't use them. WRC rotors are real thin for unsprung weight. Mass is critical for thermal capacity: Q=m*c*dT IE: Energy absorbtion is directly proportional to mass. Holes and grooves and J Hooks are holes filled with air. Air is an insulator. Surface area and air flow velocities are very important factors to slot design. Huge slots are heat sinks. CONVECTIVE HEAT TRANSFER is done by the iron only. Can't have air in the way. Screw around by spending your money with air ducting.
Choose your rotors carefully for the desired application. These grooved and drilled rotors run at higher temps which reduce their life and pad life. Don't fall for the marketing hype.
Once again, grooves and holes are for the boulevard glamor crowd. Brake manufactures have to sell to these people so they sponsor race teams including the C7R and C8R. Grooves, and J Hooks and holes cause cracks. Grooves can cause catastrophic rotor failures. WRC and LMP cars don't use them. WRC rotors are real thin for unsprung weight. Mass is critical for thermal capacity: Q=m*c*dT IE: Energy absorbtion is directly proportional to mass. Holes and grooves and J Hooks are holes filled with air. Air is an insulator. Surface area and air flow velocities are very important factors to slot design. Huge slots are heat sinks. CONVECTIVE HEAT TRANSFER is done by the iron only. Can't have air in the way. Screw around by spending your money with air ducting.
Choose your rotors carefully for the desired application. These grooved and drilled rotors run at higher temps which reduce their life and pad life. Don't fall for the marketing hype.
Convection cooling is done by the air, to the iron rotor. And conduction by the iron rotor to the brake pads.
My rotors are full of tiny heat stress cracks..none of which start or stop at the grooves. Surprisingly, the areas closest to the grooves have no cracks!
Convection cooling is done by the air, to the iron rotor. And conduction by the iron rotor to the brake pads.
My rotors are full of tiny heat stress cracks..none of which start or stop at the grooves. Surprisingly, the areas closest to the grooves have no cracks!
Maybe it's a semantic thing. Kinetic energy is 'transformed' into thermal energy and some of that energy is 'transferred' to the pads. Once you lift your foot, the heat is no longer created but is transferred by conduction through the disk and into the external ambient by convection. Sue me. The pads are cooled by the caliper and brake fluid when not in contact with the rotor. Heat is a form of energy 'transfer' and not a form of energy.
Your rotors have no cracks but mine do. Your point is? I'm saying that grooves and holes are a detriment to effective braking in severe track applications.
Maybe it's a semantic thing. Kinetic energy is 'transformed' into thermal energy and some of that energy is 'transferred' to the pads. Once you lift your foot, the heat is no longer created but is transferred by conduction through the disk and into the external ambient by convection. Sue me. The pads are cooled by the caliper and brake fluid when not in contact with the rotor. Heat is a form of energy 'transfer' and not a form of energy.
Your rotors have no cracks but mine do. Your point is? I'm saying that grooves and holes are a detriment to effective braking in severe track applications.
My point is. I was agreeing with you on slots and holes per my previous posts but was surprised to see my girodiscs have no cracks. This is a 3700 lbs cat (with driver) with 600 whp, slicks and about 10 Track days on it. 3 set of pads.
My point is. I was agreeing with you on slots and holes per my previous posts but was surprised to see my girodiscs have no cracks. This is a 3700 lbs cat (with driver) with 600 whp, slicks and about 10 Track days on it. 3 set of pads.
To be fair, mine have holes in the grooves. My Brembos to the left are like yours. Can't buy them without the grooves. Funny, you can get two drivers getting the same lap times but the one's brakes don't last. My buddy's car looks smooth from the outside, but in the car it is brutal. I treat machines kindly.
I have a lightened ‘07 Z06 that has never been raced and is a daily driver hot rod. At 8,000 miles it got a complete Brembo GT brake kit. It had drilled rotors and was 26.5 pounds lighter than the stock brakes. This was the single best mod I ever did on my car. After 92,000 miles I finally had to change front pads and rotors. No cracks but they had some serious radial grooves. The pads still had probably another 5000 miles left in them. The day I took them off they still braked as well and as predictably as the day I put them on. The rears now have 117,000 miles and appear to be half worn with practically no grooving. My only point is that maybe the quality of a product is just as important as the basic engineering. Everything is designed within a framework of conflicting compromises. Pick your products that skew those compromises toward what you plan on using them for. Free choice is all I could ever hope for. Cheers.
Pretty dumb to use drilled or groovy rotors other than for DFs at cars shows. Holes will provide the nulclii for fatigue or stress cracks to begin. Grooves will eat up pads. Gas dissipation is absurd. Both will be less efficient. Uni directional slots are good but remember, a rotor is a heat sink. Heat must be dissipated rapidly. The larger rotor with the greater mass will be able to absorb more heat at the cost of unsprung weight and will take longer to cool.
Your brakes create more HP than your engine, even on your Z06. 4000hp for a F1 car to stop from 200 mph. For road courses or short ovals, NASCAR rotors are huge. For large ovals, tiny rotors are used.
Your brake requirements depend on the application. Most road course have sufficient brake cool down sections for smaller rotors.
Cast Iron is cheap and good but heavy. Ceramic and carbon brakes are expensive. Carbon brakes on street cars are very different from F1 carbon brakes. A C8 is going to use bakes and tires big time.
Never seen a NASCAR oval or road race car without drilled rotors. Wow, dem boys are dumb!
All rotors on race cars are going to heat check and eventually crack. Look at all yours in the section of the rotor that do not have any grooves. Nothing on the C7R or IMSA race cars is done for bling, there is nothing without function and if they saw no beneift but possible failure they would not be on the period. That possible failure out ways everything else. Can you imagine what it costs to run one of these cars, nothing is for looks. They have slotted or J hood rotors on them.
05-07-2020, 09:14 AM
