Sports Car or Muscle Car
04-09-2024, 03:33 PM
#42
Drifting
04-09-2024, 04:18 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
When someone suggested that the C8 Stingray is a sports car and the Z06 is a muscle car, I said the Z06 is "more of a sports car than the C8 Stingray" . I never said or even suggested that the C8 Stingray is not a sports car. In fact, my words said the Stingray is a sports car. The LT6 is just sportier than the LT2 and that is not debatable.
04-09-2024, 05:03 PM
#44
Race Director
Sports Car:
A general term for any nimble two-door car that favors performance over all else. Typically, 2-seaters, though a limited number may have very small back seat (2+2). Built to be quick and handle twisty roads with authority. Early sports cars came from legendary brands like Alfa Romeo, Bugatti, Maserati, Porsche, Morgan and MG etc.. Many of these sports cars found their way across the ocean during the 1950s and ’60s. Corvette is widely known as America's Sports Car.
Muscle Car:
An American V8 coupe and sometimes sedan that prioritizes acceleration over handling. These cars starting appearing in the 1960s and early 1970s. They’re typically rear-wheel-drive, American production cars that are typically equipped with a large V8 engine, wide tires, flared fenders, and large hood scoops. They were often the top-performing versions of typical (read boring) daily drivers such as the Chevrolet Chevelle, Camaro, Ford Mustang etc.. Muscle cars existed primarily to go fast in a straight line, where as true sports cars also emphasize handling.
A general term for any nimble two-door car that favors performance over all else. Typically, 2-seaters, though a limited number may have very small back seat (2+2). Built to be quick and handle twisty roads with authority. Early sports cars came from legendary brands like Alfa Romeo, Bugatti, Maserati, Porsche, Morgan and MG etc.. Many of these sports cars found their way across the ocean during the 1950s and ’60s. Corvette is widely known as America's Sports Car.
Muscle Car:
An American V8 coupe and sometimes sedan that prioritizes acceleration over handling. These cars starting appearing in the 1960s and early 1970s. They’re typically rear-wheel-drive, American production cars that are typically equipped with a large V8 engine, wide tires, flared fenders, and large hood scoops. They were often the top-performing versions of typical (read boring) daily drivers such as the Chevrolet Chevelle, Camaro, Ford Mustang etc.. Muscle cars existed primarily to go fast in a straight line, where as true sports cars also emphasize handling.
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04-09-2024, 05:34 PM
#45
Race Director
You're a piece of work....
When someone suggested that the C8 Stingray is a sports car and the Z06 is a muscle car, I said the Z06 is "more of a sports car than the C8 Stingray" . I never said or even suggested that the C8 Stingray is not a sports car. In fact, my words said the Stingray is a sports car. The LT6 is just sportier than the LT2 and that is not debatable.
When someone suggested that the C8 Stingray is a sports car and the Z06 is a muscle car, I said the Z06 is "more of a sports car than the C8 Stingray" . I never said or even suggested that the C8 Stingray is not a sports car. In fact, my words said the Stingray is a sports car. The LT6 is just sportier than the LT2 and that is not debatable.
It either is or it isn't a sports car....there isn't a gauge for that particular noun....
Anything else is just pure hyperbole....
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Carvin (04-10-2024)
04-09-2024, 06:48 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Just to cause confusion............ Do a search of "best selling sports cars of all time" and you find .. The Ford Mustang is often listed. Is it a sports car? Not to me.
Another car to claim the title is the Mazda Miata also listed ahead of the Corvette. But it's qualifiers are best selling 2 seat convertible (having recently passed the MGB in that category)
But back to the question at hand... Muscle or Sports. .. .. It doesn't have to be under powered to be a Sports car, but it does need to be over powered to be a Muscle Car. (IMHO) Since the C* achieves a (nice) balance between handling and power..... SPORTS CAR!
My 2¢
Another car to claim the title is the Mazda Miata also listed ahead of the Corvette. But it's qualifiers are best selling 2 seat convertible (having recently passed the MGB in that category)
But back to the question at hand... Muscle or Sports. .. .. It doesn't have to be under powered to be a Sports car, but it does need to be over powered to be a Muscle Car. (IMHO) Since the C* achieves a (nice) balance between handling and power..... SPORTS CAR!
My 2¢
04-09-2024, 06:53 PM
#50
Drifting
The engine alone doesn't define a sports car or a muscle car but the car in totality defines it. That's why we refer to them as "muscle car" or "sports car" and "muscle engine" or "sports engine." Calling a car that greatly mimics the 458 in performance and mid-engine architecture a muscle car is a stretch because I've never seen a muscle car with a mid-engine Italian supercar architecture. So the differentiator between the Italian exotic and the American C8 is the engine...
Chevy pushrod V8s are also used in trucks doesn't define them to be fundamentally truck engines first that were then adapted into 2-door coupes. Correct me if I'm wrong but Chevy's pushrod V8s have generationally tended to debut on Corvette, not trucks. Truck engines would then be derived from those engines, not be the originators. So it's more like trucks use derivative variants of engines that originate from Corvette and not the other way around. At least this is true from the 265 cu. in. V8 that debuted in the '55 C1, the LS1 that debuted in the C5, and the LT1 that debuted in the C7.
Sports cars are performance cars for the street like the Stingray and Z06. Both have provisions for track use with the LT6 even more optimized for track. But being track optimized doesn't necessarily make it more of a sports car. Because another example of track optimization is a roll cage. But that's less optimal on sports cars used in their primary intended use case setting: the street. Likewise, the LT2 is more ideal for street whereas LT6 is ideal for track. LT6 being higher performance doesn't necessarily make it more ideal for a sports car on the street but does make it more ideal for a sports car on the track (the secondary use case for a sports car).
Plus like 3LZR21U mentioned, the term "muscle car" is archaic from a bygone era. The Challenger is more of a retro modern niche rendition of the muscle car that doesn't follow modern standards which other domestics integrate. That being all around performance beyond straight line speed.
Chevy pushrod V8s are also used in trucks doesn't define them to be fundamentally truck engines first that were then adapted into 2-door coupes. Correct me if I'm wrong but Chevy's pushrod V8s have generationally tended to debut on Corvette, not trucks. Truck engines would then be derived from those engines, not be the originators. So it's more like trucks use derivative variants of engines that originate from Corvette and not the other way around. At least this is true from the 265 cu. in. V8 that debuted in the '55 C1, the LS1 that debuted in the C5, and the LT1 that debuted in the C7.
Sports cars are performance cars for the street like the Stingray and Z06. Both have provisions for track use with the LT6 even more optimized for track. But being track optimized doesn't necessarily make it more of a sports car. Because another example of track optimization is a roll cage. But that's less optimal on sports cars used in their primary intended use case setting: the street. Likewise, the LT2 is more ideal for street whereas LT6 is ideal for track. LT6 being higher performance doesn't necessarily make it more ideal for a sports car on the street but does make it more ideal for a sports car on the track (the secondary use case for a sports car).
Plus like 3LZR21U mentioned, the term "muscle car" is archaic from a bygone era. The Challenger is more of a retro modern niche rendition of the muscle car that doesn't follow modern standards which other domestics integrate. That being all around performance beyond straight line speed.
04-09-2024, 06:58 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
this is how I view and classify the C8 corvette
Stingray = Sports car
Zo6.= Supercar
E-Ray.= Supercar
ZR1 = Exotic car? If production is low
Zora. = HyperCar? If it has over 1000 hp
Stingray = Sports car
Zo6.= Supercar
E-Ray.= Supercar
ZR1 = Exotic car? If production is low
Zora. = HyperCar? If it has over 1000 hp
04-09-2024, 07:10 PM
#52
Racer
I had been thinking of the C8 Stingray as a sports car with a muscle car engine.....
04-09-2024, 07:29 PM
#53
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Apr 2018
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2023 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Sports Car:
A general term for any nimble two-door car that favors performance over all else. Typically, 2-seaters, though a limited number may have very small back seat (2+2). Built to be quick and handle twisty roads with authority. Early sports cars came from legendary brands like Alfa Romeo, Bugatti, Maserati, Porsche, Morgan and MG etc.. Many of these sports cars found their way across the ocean during the 1950s and ’60s. Corvette is widely known as America's Sports Car.
Muscle Car:
An American V8 coupe and sometimes sedan that prioritizes acceleration over handling. These cars starting appearing in the 1960s and early 1970s. They’re typically rear-wheel-drive, American production cars that are typically equipped with a large V8 engine, wide tires, flared fenders, and large hood scoops. They were often the top-performing versions of typical (read boring) daily drivers such as the Chevrolet Chevelle, Camaro, Ford Mustang etc.. Muscle cars existed primarily to go fast in a straight line, where as true sports cars also emphasize handling.
A general term for any nimble two-door car that favors performance over all else. Typically, 2-seaters, though a limited number may have very small back seat (2+2). Built to be quick and handle twisty roads with authority. Early sports cars came from legendary brands like Alfa Romeo, Bugatti, Maserati, Porsche, Morgan and MG etc.. Many of these sports cars found their way across the ocean during the 1950s and ’60s. Corvette is widely known as America's Sports Car.
Muscle Car:
An American V8 coupe and sometimes sedan that prioritizes acceleration over handling. These cars starting appearing in the 1960s and early 1970s. They’re typically rear-wheel-drive, American production cars that are typically equipped with a large V8 engine, wide tires, flared fenders, and large hood scoops. They were often the top-performing versions of typical (read boring) daily drivers such as the Chevrolet Chevelle, Camaro, Ford Mustang etc.. Muscle cars existed primarily to go fast in a straight line, where as true sports cars also emphasize handling.
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V Vette (04-09-2024)
04-09-2024, 08:01 PM
#54
Drifting
04-09-2024, 08:57 PM
#55
Drifting
I debated copy/pasting the Wikipedia description (which includes the Merriam Webster and Britannica definitions). Not a cut and dry definition but pretty comprehensive and clear where the C8 stands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car
Get this: In the 60s-70s, muscle cars in the US were more often referred to as "Supercars" instead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car
Get this: In the 60s-70s, muscle cars in the US were more often referred to as "Supercars" instead.
04-09-2024, 09:13 PM
#56
Hypercars are 1m+ MSRP. 1000HP is not the litmus test for hypercar status. Rarity and cost are.
p.s.
Viper is not a muscle car. Definitely not the Viper ACR anyways.
p.s.
Viper is not a muscle car. Definitely not the Viper ACR anyways.
04-10-2024, 08:56 AM
#57
Super Car, Muscle Car, Hyper Car, Halo Car, Sports Car, blah, blah, blah, BS.
Mental masturbation attempting to assign these labels to any one offering when the terms are all meaningless and little more than a matter of opinion.
Mental masturbation attempting to assign these labels to any one offering when the terms are all meaningless and little more than a matter of opinion.
04-10-2024, 12:40 PM
#58
Racer
(spell check could have prevented this tragedy)
04-10-2024, 12:41 PM
#59
Racer
I'm going with "Super car". Just because.
Last edited by MKC8; 04-10-2024 at 08:26 PM.
04-10-2024, 06:30 PM
#60
Melting Slicks
Back in the day I saw a legit '67 427 Corvette convertible drag race (IIRC) a '69 or '70 Pontiac GTO. That vette looked pretty muscular to me! I was near the finish line and when that Vette ripped through the sound of that screaming Rat engine put a smile on every guy's face. The GTO came by sometime later 😆
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MKC8 (04-10-2024)