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I don't mean to sound like a douche but it's brakes not breaks. The total brake system is a combo of disks, calipers, brake lines and brake fluid so you are definitely on your way with the brakes and calipers. I don't know if the brake lines and fluid are different in the Z51 cars? Someone on here smarter than me about this can chime in.......
I don't mean to sound like a douche but it's brakes not breaks. The total brake system is a combo of disks, calipers, brake lines and brake fluid so you are definitely on your way with the brakes and calipers. I don't know if the brake lines and fluid are different in the Z51 cars? Someone on here smarter than me about this can chime in.......
Anyone know if I can upgrade my standard C8 breaks to Z51 breaks by changing just the disks and calipers or would I need to change the uprights also?
There is also quite a bit of software that senses things going on with the brakes and will notify the driver of issues and pending issues. And the braking itself is all "by wire". The feedback at the pedal is generated by the algorithms, not actual brake feel. And the response of the brakes to the pedal position is also all done by algorithms. Its very possible, perhaps likely in fact, that the software related to braking is all tuned for the specific brake system, rotor size, and pad size. Folks with Z51 have upgraded their brakes, so maybe the software is adaptive.
As correctly pointed out by @killian96ss , in a post he apparently deleted later, the brake system is not entirely by wire. When fully functional feeback to the pedal is regulated by the software, but in the event of a failure, there is actually a connection from the pedal to the hydraulic system.
Last edited by Andybump; 03-05-2024 at 09:29 AM.
Reason: delete reference to by wire
What Andybump said. It's not like the old days anymore as computers control everything on these cars. It may or may not work. Next question for me is why convert a perfectly good dust free braking system for street driving to something totally unnecessary. You still won't have all the required cooling to run the car on the track anyway which will void your warranty.
I don't mean to sound like a douche but it's brakes not breaks. The total brake system is a combo of disks, calipers, brake lines and brake fluid so you are definitely on your way with the brakes and calipers. I don't know if the brake lines and fluid are different in the Z51 cars? Someone on here smarter than me about this can chime in.......
And I don't mean to sound like a douche but it's disc, not disk... ;-) No idea if it's more proper to call them rotors compared to discs, though, so have a ball with that one :-p
And I don't mean to sound like a douche but it's disc, not disk... ;-) No idea if it's more proper to call them rotors compared to discs, though, so have a ball with that one :-p
And I don't mean to sound like a douche but it's disc, not disk... ;-) No idea if it's more proper to call them rotors compared to discs, though, so have a ball with that one :-p
I don't mean to sound like a douche but it's brakes not breaks. The total brake system is a combo of disks, calipers, brake lines and brake fluid so you are definitely on your way with the brakes and calipers. I don't know if the brake lines and fluid are different in the Z51 cars? Someone on here smarter than me about this can chime in.......
I was going to say same thing...lol Maybe you should not be tackling brake work, if you can't spell it....just saying.
I don't mean to sound like a douche but it's brakes not breaks. The total brake system is a combo of disks, calipers, brake lines and brake fluid so you are definitely on your way with the brakes and calipers. I don't know if the brake lines and fluid are different in the Z51 cars? Someone on here smarter than me about this can chime in.......
They don't include RBF from BGA. You have to have the lines purged and install RBF on your own prior to tracking as part of your track prep. Per GM you should also remove the used RBF after track event and put street fluid back in. I believe this is all due to the RBF and moisture contamination, boiling point of the fluid, etc. Install Castrol SRF annually and you should be good for street and track. Even wet it has a high enough boiling point for street use.
Why the need for the Z51 brake upgrade?
If you are planning to track the car, there is more too it than just the brakes. Extra cooling capacity for the DCT is a big one, plus you will insta-void your warranty if your car goes near a track.
And I don't mean to sound like a douche but it's disc, not disk... ;-) No idea if it's more proper to call them rotors compared to discs, though, so have a ball with that one :-p
"I don't mean to sound like a douche, but it's a disc, not a disk. I have no idea if it's more proper to call them rotors compared to discs, though, so have a ball with that one."
@killian96ss , your explanation, attached, seems inconsistent with the description in the Service Manual. No vacuum booster at all. However, as you pointed out, in the event of a failure, the the driver pedal input will be mechanically transferred to the hydraulic system, so in the event of a failure its not brake-by-wire. I have fixed that error in my earlier post - thanks.
@Andybump What's weird in my brake failure on the track was that I got no warning indications. I didn't sense or feel any brake fade. I was going ~100mph approaching a turn and was braking 100% getting into balance. About 75% of the way into the braking zone my brakes failed.
I got a big red box on the DIC that said "BRAKE SYSTEM FAILURE". Suddenly I had no brakes, the pedal was very stiff. Not spongy like there was air/bubbles in the lines from boiling. I ended up taking the turn quite a bit faster than I had planned to, but fortunately it was a high banked turn!
My brakes are working fine now. Rotors look fine, pads are good, there was no discoloration of the Motul660 when I pulled it out and replaced it with Castrol SRF. So I am really scratching my head as to what actually caused the failure? Wondering if the issue is a loose wire in the electroboost system or something. In which case, I could have another unwelcomed surprise on the track.
Given the complexity of everything in the C8 (hardware and software), and the warranty issues with tracking a non-Z51 car, I think the best approach to "upgrading" to Z51 is to sell your car and buy a Z51 spec'd car off the lot. The 2LT/Z51 combo is the most popular ordered C8 and there are quite a few available these days. Even better, look for one with FE4/Z51, MSRC, PTM, PDR options.
@killian96ss , your explanation, attached, seems inconsistent with the description in the Service Manual. No vacuum booster at all. However, as you pointed out, in the event of a failure, the the driver pedal input will be mechanically transferred to the hydraulic system, so in the event of a failure its not brake-by-wire. I have fixed that error in my earlier post - thanks.
my post was all messed up thinking about another GM vehicle I have with electric vacuum assist (21 Trailblazer), but the systems are similar. I deleted my post as soon as I realized my info wasn't correct, lol. I definitely didn't say the C8 had a vacuum booster as it's just a variable electric vacuum pump which supplies the assist (common on all new GM vehicles).
I've never liked the term "brake by wire" because it's easily confused with "drive by wire" where the gas pedal has no mechanical link to the throttle body, but in the brake system there is still a mechanical link.
@Andybump What's weird in my brake failure on the track was that I got no warning indications. I didn't sense or feel any brake fade. I was going ~100mph approaching a turn and was braking 100% getting into balance. About 75% of the way into the braking zone my brakes failed.
I got a big red box on the DIC that said "BRAKE SYSTEM FAILURE". Suddenly I had no brakes, the pedal was very stiff. Not spongy like there was air/bubbles in the lines from boiling. I ended up taking the turn quite a bit faster than I had planned to, but fortunately it was a high banked turn!
My brakes are working fine now. Rotors look fine, pads are good, there was no discoloration of the Motul660 when I pulled it out and replaced it with Castrol SRF. So I am really scratching my head as to what actually caused the failure? Wondering if the issue is a loose wire in the electroboost system or something. In which case, I could have another unwelcomed surprise on the track.
Given the complexity of everything in the C8 (hardware and software), and the warranty issues with tracking a non-Z51 car, I think the best approach to "upgrading" to Z51 is to sell your car and buy a Z51 spec'd car off the lot. The 2LT/Z51 combo is the most popular ordered C8 and there are quite a few available these days. Even better, look for one with FE4/Z51, MSRC, PTM, PDR options.
Yeah - so that "mechanical" connection to the hydraulics in the even of a "failure" apparently requires a lot more pressure. Too bad the car doesn't have a "test" mode so that one could be familiar with the pressure required in that situation. I'll bet steering real bad too. When ABS first came out, a while back, I recall having my wife test it on wet road so she would understand what was going on if it happened unexpectedly. (not that the mechanics are the same - its just the concept of testing feature like that in safe environment).
03-04-2024, 11:13 AM
Now that's funny!!!
