When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
“To experience the performance benefit of this system, after entering a curve and at the point where normal acceleration occurs, fully press the accelerator pedal. The PTM system modifies the level of engine power
for a smooth and consistent corner exit.
This sounds crazy. I'd like to see a video of someone doing this and how the car responds.
I don't take anything on this board as personal. But going by the numbers 2/3rds of people reporting DCT problems should have Z51s even if there is no influence from Z51 vs non-Z51. And if the eLSD tends to cause DCT problems then the ratio should be much higher.
Thanks Andy, finally I have a use for that Statistics and Probability semester but now I've forgotten the formulas. I'm going to go with your assumption that it is statistically in the noise. It makes good sense and I feel better about it.
Oops, wrong poster. Thanks RKCRLR
Last edited by BasicMember; 02-03-2024 at 11:56 AM.
This sounds crazy. I'd like to see a video of someone doing this and how the car responds.
Look up Ron Fellows Corvette Owners School videos at Spring Mountain. PDR footage shows you the exact driver input and dynamic conditions that activate it (shown by an icon that flashes around the top right corner of this screenshot below the throttle/brake pedal indicators ). Better yet, experience it yourself at the course (though it might be too late for the discount if yours is a MY22 like your username suggests). Ample opportunity to feel it kick in on track, autocross, and the figure 8.
I really can’t believe these non-z51 arguments don’t get laughed at for being completely ridiculous at face value. The z51 has stiffer springs and larger sway bars, there is absolutely no way that it is not noticeable during normal driving. Sure the improvements may not make a meaningful difference in speed on the street and a z51 probably won’t walk away from a non-z but that doesn’t mean it won’t be a more competent feeling car
Agreed, my Z51 magride car has a stiffer and tighter feel than my buddy’s non-Z51 magride car. Just take either car down a lumpy road in tour or sport mode and the difference is very noticeable.
As I mentioned, Tadge had a long, several page post re eLSD operation in Ask Tadge. The Chevy Performance Engineer in charge of eLSD Integration wrote most it. It was for the C7 but probably similar in the C8.
I summarized the key points as it's a bit hard to follow (and long.) In the Appendix I included the full Ask Tadge/eLSD engineer's post: eLSD_VS_Posi.pdf (netwelding.com)
Have several Video Links in the Appendix as well. One from a Professor who discusses the late 1950's invented Positraction (by Dana) most manufacturers used under their different marketing names. He takes 11 apart to show how they work.
The eSLD engineer provides some interesting data. The C6 only had that 1960's Positraction. It only operates when one wheel is slipping and the most torque it can supply to a rear wheel is 88 ft-lbs. eLSD can apply up to 1475 ft-lbs of torque to either wheel. All controlled by a computer integrating the many sensor data. It's operating all the time including assisting in turns.
Sure the improvements may not make a meaningful difference in speed on the street and a z51 probably won’t walk away from a non-z but that doesn’t mean it won’t be a more competent feeling car
I'm least concerned about track times and most concerned about maximizing competent feel and driver engagement, accepting whatever minor inconveniences entailed in getting slightly beefed up factory performance parts. Same reason I'd pick a "slower" manual if offered--clutch maintenance would be inconvenient but totally worth it. Z51 parts may likewise be slightly more expensive/inconvenient to maintain but negligible in comparison to, say, an LT2 vs LT6. While waiting for my Z51 to get built, I test drove a non-Z51. It was thrilling in a straight line but slightly underwhelming in handling dynamics vs my more engaging BRZ. That tempered my expectations for my C8. But once it got delivered, I was pleasantly surprised by the difference that the Z51 made. Felt more on par with my BRZ.
This Everyday Driver shootout comparo among a C8, 911, Artura, Elise, and GR86 has results that will be unpopular in this forum. I won't say where the C8 ranks but it's lower than the budget GR86. This video sort of validates my initial concern about driver engagement. Z51 doesn't fully fix that but at least tends towards mitigating it which makes it a bare minimum requirement for me. All in a street context.
I had a 2010 1lt convertible without Z51 or mag ride. It was beyond a doubt.not a great handling car. My ‘99 convertible with msg ride was so much better in terms of regular commuting and weekend curve carving. My purchase of a ‘23 3lt with z and mag ride is a totally different story. It handles like a true drivers car. Of course you can save a bunch of money by getting a 1lt. By virtue of the fact it’s a mid engine car it will handle better than you 2010. But not as well as my 23. You have to ask yourself if you want the most technically advanced corvette or just a regular one. If you’re looking for a Ferrari 580 or similar car then get both the mag ride and z51. If you don’t care about those types of ride and handling vehicles and just want a vette then get it without. After taking the Ron Fellows course I was thanking myself for getting both. It provides a spectacular experience.
Sorry but I am going to start the controversy..
I say the Non-Z51 is equal on the streets as the Z51! I admit the Z51 is better on the track but mostly due to brakes and cooling.
Get a friend with Z51 and see he they can loss you again on public roads, even canyon roads.
Not really a true comparison, as individual driving skill will be a major factor in the outcome.
Forgetting all our personal opinions, or what a friend who's a race car driver said, etc, will repeat what the MAN, father of MRC and GM person who helped develop handling packages said as I did in post #17:
That question has multiple answers, the first is it depends on the driver's skill, what tires are on the car, the temperature. I spent years teaching drivers and it is not usually the car that is the weak link it is the person behind the wheel. I drive without traction controls and the C8's limits (my car has the Z51 package) are hard to reach on the street unless you are breaking the law or trying to.
Yep, on the street I don't think I have ever seen the eLSD light come on showing the torque was being limited, on the track however I have seen it many times! 8) Unfortunately, in the area where I live it is much more densely populated and there are very few twisty areas. Mostly straight shots from light to light.
That said, you are always going to feel the stiffer suspension, or softer ride feel as well in Tour if you have the MSRC option. The stock 1LT with no MSRC and no Z51 shouldn't be able to match the softer ride characteristics of the Z51 with MSRC.
If you hate brake dust, don't get the Z51 though. The two biggest complaints are usually brake dust and the fact the rotors get rusty nearly instantly.
The dust is easy to handle because it's a good idea to switch back/forth from street pads to track pads as needed. The rotors are a bit more costly and difficult to deal with though.
Last edited by dohabandit; 02-05-2024 at 09:26 AM.
^^^
FWIW, the PDF I wrote re eSLD showed what you'll see on the center screen if you elect to put it up. The eLSD is applying the rear wheel clutches all the time to "some degree" to one wheel or the other except going straight. Even there depending on road surface. Not sure if a light comes on if it applies the full 1400 ft-lbs if you're about to slide off a turn? netwelding.com/eLSD_VS_Posi.pdf
Perhaps it's no longer available for display? Tadge did say in his Ask Tadge Post as I quote in full the PDF: "Also, I would be remiss if I didn't remind everyone that the eLSD does some of its most important work in some pretty aggressive maneuvers. That is not the time to be looking at the display.... First priority is to keep eyes on the road!"
SIDEBAR:
That Tadge statement reminded me of a friend in college who raced his Lotus 7. We'd discuss his SCCA training between classes. Recall drawing a parabola on a blackboard and discussing why it was the fastest path thru a tun etc. We both drove the same twisty single road through a Park, often no traffic or people. Neither had fast road cars but drove as fast as they would go. He asked "How fast you make the one very shape turn." I said never looked. He said good, if you're going as fast as you're capable you're looking ahead not at a speedometer! Back in ~1962, no PDRs!
^^^
Perhaps it's no longer available for display? Tadge did say in his Ask Tadge Post as I quote in full the PDF: "Also, I would be remiss if I didn't remind everyone that the eLSD does some of its most important work in some pretty aggressive maneuvers. That is not the time to be looking at the display.... First priority is to keep eyes on the road!"
Yeah, perhaps maybe that is why I haven't noticed it very often. Haha.
This is a never ending debate that will get you different answers based on what people own. Everyone has opinions, so here's mine. I own a 23' Stingray with the FE1 suspension. I had ordered a car with FE2, but didn't get it for reasons you don't care about, ended up getting a car with FE1. I was concerned about it being too soft. Weekend toy only, spirited canyon driving. It has been great. However, because I like messing with my cars, I purchased a Z51 rear sway bar (the front sway bars are identical on Z51 vs non-Z51) and also Z51 springs. I'm gonna put the sway bar on and see if I notice anything, then maybe the springs. Do I need to, no I don't, the car is fantastic as is, but that's me. I swapped with a buddy and drove his C8 Z06, again just street. Felt stiffer obviously, but for the street not wanting to go to jail I wasn't able to take advantage of the Z06 performance so not really a noticeable difference, other than exhaust note. I'm not really answering your question, just rambling, but here's what I think is a logical summary. Z51 cars handle better, period, I don't know how you can argue against that. Do I think it will make a noticeable difference on the street? Maybe a little, but like folks have mentioned unless you are really skilled and are driving crazy fast on the street you're gonna love any C8 suspension because I truly believe they are all really, really good. Mag ride is pretty cheap so if I were to order again I'd get it for the adjustability, but I'm certainly happy with my FE1 suspension, it's so much better than I expected. Best of luck......
I agree with your assesment. My 21 Z51 3LT HTC with most options is my everyday driver..."In For a Penny In For a Pound". In other words, you may as well go in 100% rather than do it half-***.
As soon as I read your response, I knew we had something in common, our career field and confirmed it by your call sign. I'll be upgrading soon to the 24 Z06 mainly for the exhaust notes and performance. I do track my vette for fun and have attended Ron Fellows a couple of times...can't wait for the next experience.
Live Long and Prosper!
If you are going to track your car, get the Z51....period. As for acceleration, maybe not so fast. The C8 launch control is traction limited.... the Z51 puts down more rubber??
My Stingray has 21x12 rear wheels with 325/25/21 Michelin rubber (Z06 is 345/25/20!). I doubt I have any difference 0-60 with a Z51. My car hooks way better than the stock 305/30/20's did for sure. I get a routine 2.8 on the timer--on crappy CA fuel (I know this is not an accurate reading). If you are keeping stock wheels/tires.... go Z51 if tenths of a second in acceleration are important to you.
02-03-2024, 11:28 AM
As I mentioned, Tadge had a long, several page post re eLSD operation in Ask Tadge. The Chevy Performance Engineer in charge of eLSD Integration wrote most it. It was for the C7 but probably similar in the C8.
