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The big question is do the 2024's still have Android Auto? If so then who needs the onboard navigation.
The 24s run an Android Operating system (vice android auto), and that is where the rub comes in. Google Maps (or Waze) will still be the same, but will likely require a data connection through OnStar. I've seen no clear posting that they are also including Android Auto, as that would be an easy way around the subscription model they are going to.
Bottom line; The current GPS navigation is always running and always available. The 2024 system will not always be available and won’t be available at all without a subscription. You will be better off using Apple CarPlay which can map your route through WiFi when cellular is dead.
Again a non issue for anyone with a smart phone. On board nav systems in cars have been obsolete for years IMO.
Google Maps and Waze use GPS via cell service. They access the database via cell service. Your phone does not have direct GPS mapping. Cell towers use GPS downlink/unlink and triangulation to phones via the 3 strongest cell tower signal strength. If you go into remote areas you will not have mapping. Here in AZ it is pretty common in rural areas. The 2023 GM navigation is true GPS in that it will work anywhere unless the GPS signal from satellite is blocked. I have used all in remote ares....you will lose Google Maps and Waze where cell service is weak. GM navigation keeps ticking.
This is not totally correct, you are mixing two things. Google maps and Waze use position data provided by the OS (Android). Android supports coarse position (determined from WiFi and cell towers by triangulation as you described) and fine position (using the GPS receiver, which also uses triangulation in a way). The apps can use either or let the OS give them the default. Position data only gives you coordinates, not the road you are on. To know the road you are on, you need maps. Google maps and Waze use maps downloaded in real time via the network connection (Internet via cell towers or WiFi). You can also download maps ahead of time, but that does not happen by default. A "conventional" navigation system like the one in my '23 2LT uses maps stored on the SD card.
Another confusion comes from the term "assisted" GPS. Assisted GPS is the use of network services (cell data) to speed up locking the GPS receiver to the satellites. Without assisted GPS, it takes a GPS receiver up to 10 minutes to acquire position (cold start) because the receiver has to acquire the ephemerid from the satellites themselves before it can compute its position and that takes a while. If the receiver gets the ephemerid (and coarse position) from the network, that saves a lot of time and you get precise position in seconds.
The 24s run an Android Operating system (vice android auto), and that is where the rub comes in. Google Maps (or Waze) will still be the same, but will likely require a data connection through OnStar. I've seen no clear posting that they are also including Android Auto, as that would be an easy way around the subscription model they are going to.
Good point about Onstar. GM wants to increase subscriptions so making the new navigation system dependent on Onstar WiFi makes more profit
This is not totally correct, you are mixing two things. Google maps and Waze use position data provided by the OS (Android). Android supports coarse position (determined from WiFi and cell towers by triangulation as you described) and fine position (using the GPS receiver, which also uses triangulation in a way). The apps can use either or let the OS give them the default. Position data only gives you coordinates, not the road you are on. To know the road you are on, you need maps. Google maps and Waze use maps downloaded in real time via the network connection (Internet via cell towers or WiFi). You can also download maps ahead of time, but that does not happen by default. A "conventional" navigation system like the one in my '23 2LT uses maps stored on the SD card.
Another confusion comes from the term "assisted" GPS. Assisted GPS is the use of network services (cell data) to speed up locking the GPS receiver to the satellites. Without assisted GPS, it takes a GPS receiver up to 10 minutes to acquire position (cold start) because the receiver has to acquire the ephemerid from the satellites themselves before it can compute its position and that takes a while. If the receiver gets the ephemerid (and coarse position) from the network, that saves a lot of time and you get precise position in seconds.
Bolded part: technically true, but every modern GPS receiver powers up assuming your last location as your current location, which most of the time dramatically reduces how long it takes. I'm sure GM's built in system keeps track of where you are at all times, even if not using Nav, thereby eliminating that startup lag. Even my antique Garmin GPS unit only takes a few minutes to locate my position when powered up a new location.
Good point about Onstar. GM wants to increase subscriptions so making the new navigation system dependent on Onstar WiFi makes more profit
Yes, that's one thing that bugs me to no end. Mary Barra announced some time ago that she wanted subscription services to create something like 35 billions annual revenue for GM in just a few years. Guess who is going to pay for that! I can see subscriptions for heated seats, remote start, LCD mirror, performance exhaust, on board entertainment and whatnot. Anything not absolutely required to get you from point a to point b is open unfortunately. I am glad I got a '23 and not a '24...
I’ve done a little more research to sort some of this out. This is based on what I found, with supporting clips attached. I would say it is subject to change – and there could be possible variations that are not mentioned in what I found.
On the Chevrolet Website for the 2024 model, the Chevrolet Infotainment 3 Plus system with 8-inch diagonal color touch-screen display and Google built-in is standard on all three trims (1,2,3LT). “ A select service plan is required”.
“Google built-in provides a personalized and seamless way to enhance your in-vehicle experience. Talk to Google for hands-free help in the car. Call or text friends, listen to music, set reminders or change the temperature in your vehicle using just your voice. Google Maps gets you where you need to go and what you need to know on your drive, including live traffic updates, nearby charging stations and Super Cruise™* compatible roads. And with Google Play, you can download some of your favorite music, podcasts, audiobooks and more.”
Google built-in includes Google Assistant, Google Maps, and Google Play. All three of these features appear in the 2024 Owner’s Manual. You do not need a Google account, but you will need a service plan to enable all the features. You can enable them with the On-Star Connected Vehicle Plan which is 24.99/month. Services that require a service plan ae Google Assistant, Google Maps, and some apps on Google Play require a service plan. Services that do not require a service plan are audio features (listening to AM/FM radio, streaming from your paired device), Android and Apple CarPlay, voice control using your connected phones compatible voice assistant, customizing your settings.
There is also a website mentioned in the Owners Manual that has more info about Google Map:
g.co/mapsincar
As I see it, the downside of this is the subscription at 24.99/month. The advantage is that the maps will always be up to date, no SD card is required, and no need to purchase an updated map every year, if you want current maps. It also retains the capability to function in cell dead zones because it downloads map for "off line" use. This is described in numerous places, such at the Owner's Manual, and website above. I'm not advocating it, just summarizing the features.
Edit: Another likely downside of the new system pointed out later by @Red Mist Rulz is that while the current SD card holds the entire US map, its not clear, and probably not likely that the new Google Maps system will be able to store all of that. There may be limit on how much can be downloaded in advance.
Smart phones do not work in a cellular dead zone so you must have WiFi. .
Not totally accurate. As many have posted, your smart phone can download the maps along your planned route ahead of time, and can continue navigating even if you lose cellular. Where it becomes an issue is if you want to create a new route and don't have a cellular data connection.
And there are navigation apps for your phone which don't need a data connection at all.
Originally Posted by Andybump
It also retains the capability to function in cell dead zones because it downloads map for "off line" use. This is described in numerous places, such at the Owner's Manual, and website above. I'm not advocating it, just summarizing the features.
I think we need more information to be sure of this. To function all the time in dead zones it would need to download maps for every possible location you might drive, and that's not how it works on a cell phone. It will download all the maps along the route you've programmed, and around your home and work areas. But if you're in a cell-free zone in West Virginia, and try to program a new route to somewhere else, those maps won't have been downloaded previously. I ran into this exact situation. I created a route from my home to a location in WVA, and it worked fine without cell coverage. But when I was in that dead zone, and tried to create a new route to go somewhere else in WVA that wasn't part of my original route, Google Maps couldn't do it. Fortunately I also have the HERE We Go app on my phone, which will work like a traditional GPS unit, completely standalone.
We still need to learn exactly what GM & Google mean by being able to download maps. HERE will let me download maps for every state in the US, so if I know I'm going to be driving to Texas and back I can download all the states I'm going to travel through, and maybe some other nearby states in case I change my mind. Will Google maps in the car allow that, or will it work like it does on the phone, which is much more limited.
The link you posted above seems to indicate it works like the phone:
Offline maps can be automatically downloaded and updated based on your current location and travel patterns.On your car, under "Offline maps," your offline maps will show:
Auto-downloaded maps based on your car’s movements, if you’ve turned on auto-download before.
Optional: Home and Work maps, if you’re signed in.
Optional: Maps you’ve downloaded manually.
Download offline maps
You can only download offline maps with a data plan.To download offline maps:
Open the Google Maps app .
At the bottom, tap Settings Offline maps.
Tap Select your own map .
Move the map to cover the area you'd like to download.
Tap Download
The above is exactly how it works on my phone, and item 4 will only download a relatively small area of the country at a time.
Last edited by Red Mist Rulz; 08-10-2023 at 09:59 AM.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
Originally Posted by Andybump
I have not done it, but many folks on the forum report that with both Google Maps and Waze, they can download maps to their phone in advance, and then they will continue to navigate in cell deadzones. There are several places on the internet that discuss how to do that.
Waze does not support off-line maps. If you're already navigating with it and you lose Internet, it will continue to function, but it won't resume if you interrupt nor will it allow you to add a new route without Internet. Google Maps on the other hand does support offline maps, although using that to start a route without Internet can be hit or miss (I've had it succeed with zero Internet and I've also had it fail to find a route).
Originally Posted by gliot1
...Your phone does not have direct GPS mapping...GM navigation keeps ticking.
Pretty much every decent cell phone in the last 5+ years has a GPS antenna. But I do agree having the on-board GPS was always a nice backup in case Google Maps fails in a zero signal area.
All 2024 Corvettes will be equipped with the Onstar system. The OnStar system includes a GPS receiver and processor. I "believe" the data subscription that allows "full functionality" enables real-time information such as traffic conditions, detours, road construction, etc. Without a subscription, the 2024 Nav system will function just like the prior versions. JMO...
..........I think we need more information to be sure of this. To function all the time in dead zones it would need to download maps for every possible location you might drive, and that's not how it works on a cell phone. .....
I understand the point. If you go to the website listed in the manual, it discusses that in some detail. It supports both automatic downloading of maps for off-line use (if you leave it set that way), and it also supports manual downloading of maps. To me that sounds like if planning in advance one could download the regions of concern. As with the phone.
Edit: actually I missed your point. Right. The current SD card hold the entire US. The new Google system may not have sufficient room to do that. That is another downside of this.
All 2024 Corvettes will be equipped with the Onstar system. The OnStar system includes a GPS receiver and processor. I "believe" the data subscription that allows "full functionality" enables real-time information such as traffic conditions, detours, road construction, etc. Without a subscription, the 2024 Nav system will function just like the prior versions. JMO...
That's not what is described on Google's site, unfortunately:
"Services that do not require a service plan are audio features (listening to AM/FM radio, streaming from your paired device), Android and Apple CarPlay, voice control using your connected phones compatible voice assistant, customizing your settings."
So it seems Carplay and Android Auto will still be supported and the most significant difference, the way I see it, is the loss of "GPS only with maps on SD card" that was standard with 2LT and 3LT packages.
I may be the only one b****ing about it
I understand the point. If you go to the website listed in the manual, it discusses that in some detail. It supports both automatic downloading of maps for off-line use (if you leave it set that way), and it also supports manual downloading of maps. To me that sounds like if planning in advance one could download the regions of concern. As with the phone.
I understand that, and mentioned it in my comment. But as I also said, manual map downloading is very limited in the amount of area you can download at one time. Maybe in the car it will be larger, but for the phone app there's no way to download the map data for, say, everything east of the Mississippi. Or even the entire mid-atlantic. This is the largest area centered on Washington, DC I can download on my phone. Not going to help on a cross country trip unless you download new maps every day.
As I said, we need a lot more information from GM and Google to understand exactly how this will work.
08-10-2023, 08:25 AM
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Offline maps.
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