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This seems logical as the transmission can't handle more torque than about 500 as several shops have found.
So based on this timeline, they have a few years to design a new transmission that can handle 800 torque.
This seems logical as the transmission can't handle more torque than about 500 as several shops have found.
So based on this timeline, they have a few years to design a new transmission that can handle 800 torque.
Tremec's specs on the current DCT is rated at 590 ft-lbs
This seems logical as the transmission can't handle more torque than about 500 as several shops have found.
So based on this timeline, they have a few years to design a new transmission that can handle 800 torque.
Yeah for the NA z06 it'll be fine but the tt engines for the zr1 and zora will need beefier components.
Looks like they may be modifying the front face of the DCT where it bolts to the block - if this block is the real thing. The bolt pattern is a match for the Tremec unit with the exception of the two extra bolt holes circled in red.
Tremec's specs on the current DCT is rated at 590 ft-lbs
Yep but just like they did with the C7 Z51/Grand Sport trans, it’s 1st gear that limits max torque.
So the C7 Z06 got a different 1st gear. The C7 ZR1 used the Z06 trans and reduced engine power in 1sr gear. Heck my Grand Sport, as were the Z06 and ZR1 were traction limited in 1st gear anyway. Tires limited maximum torque applied to the trans. Note GM said they increased a weak link in all C7 transaxles to accommodate the ZR1, spider gear strength.
Now install a pair of wider slicks and you’re eating into the design safety factor!
This seems logical as the transmission can't handle more torque than about 500 as several shops have found.
So based on this timeline, they have a few years to design a new transmission that can handle 800 torque.
Except the eRay will not be "adding" any more torque to the transmission. The extra torque will be going directly to the front wheels. So it shouldn't be a problem and those torque numbers have to be incorrect.
I get that EV's are the coming thing. I want to embrace it. Kinda. For all the hard core Eco Green folks out there, I'd pose this question. How do you plan to build enough electric power plants to charge all of these cars? Since you oppose all power plants near universally. Go find a wind generator farm and stand near it. Really! 100% of the world has a tenuous electricity grid. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world alike. As an example, we have extended family in S CA. Trendy addresses all. Each has experienced days of electric interruptions in recent years. Some from demand/supply causing rolling brown outs, some from wildfire shutdowns. Makes no difference. They'd be riding a Schwinn to work. Solve the I 5 traffic snarls eh? How many home owners have the space and/or the money to retrofit solar panels to charge their car? Talking $40,000 minimum. And the dying car battery is at work when the sun is up for the most part. Does the employer build huge charging garages? Solar works slowly and not at all during dusk to dawn. When cars are in the garage. Significant electricity storage solutions are years away. The 10K Home Tesla panel will power your fridge to keep the milk from spoiling. Overnight maybe? Today, if 50% of the fossil fuel cars became EV's, they'd be dead in the water for days at a time as charging demand far outstripped generation supply. 600 hp with the E Ray? Makes no difference when the batteries are dead.
I agree that the torque numbers for the E-ray seem too low. Normally adding an electric motor adds more torque than horsepower. And I for one am very interested in what the E-ray might offer, if it is available in 3 years time I can see myself upgrading from my 2021 HTC to an E-ray. Regarding how to charge cars, we have a 16kW solar array (plus 30kWh of batteries) so we can easily charge up any electric car we get in the future. We already have a plug-in hybrid Aviator and since we charge it up every day from the solar we end up with over 50mpg gas mileage (and this is on a BIG 3-row SUV)
Ignoring the suspect accuracy of the above chart, the E-ray final peak torque numbers will be the sum of the electric torque curve plus the ICE torque curve. The electric motor will make peak torque at a very low rpm then drop off, while the ICE will be making peak torque just over 5000rpm, so you can't add the individual peaks together to arrive at the new peak torque of both.
I get that EV's are the coming thing. I want to embrace it. Kinda. For all the hard core Eco Green folks out there, I'd pose this question. How do you plan to build enough electric power plants to charge all of these cars? Since you oppose all power plants near universally. Go find a wind generator farm and stand near it. Really! 100% of the world has a tenuous electricity grid. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world alike. As an example, we have extended family in S CA. Trendy addresses all. Each has experienced days of electric interruptions in recent years. Some from demand/supply causing rolling brown outs, some from wildfire shutdowns. Makes no difference. They'd be riding a Schwinn to work. Solve the I 5 traffic snarls eh? How many home owners have the space and/or the money to retrofit solar panels to charge their car? Talking $40,000 minimum. And the dying car battery is at work when the sun is up for the most part. Does the employer build huge charging garages? Solar works slowly and not at all during dusk to dawn. When cars are in the garage. Significant electricity storage solutions are years away. The 10K Home Tesla panel will power your fridge to keep the milk from spoiling. Overnight maybe? Today, if 50% of the fossil fuel cars became EV's, they'd be dead in the water for days at a time as charging demand far outstripped generation supply. 600 hp with the E Ray? Makes no difference when the batteries are dead.
You are asking the right questions. In the big scheme of things the E-ray is just another "little" market play thing just as I consider Tesla's at 250K cars a year world wide, a niche play thing.
But just like for solar and wind push of yesteryear, there will be a time for a reality check. Either we literally stop the current mobility models or EVs won't cut it just like solar and wind cannot keep millions of people warm in their houses during the winter.
So the grid is one good way to look at it but mobility and lifecycle cost in the industrialized world is the other. I am mostly a Corvette "cruiser" so EV to keep things quite for leisure rides is not bad but I really would like to see the lifecycle battery replacement costs to see how much that nice quietness real price is.....
It's putting that extra weight in the center-center of the car (and low). It's going to perform great.
No... that's not how it works. Adding mass is bad; period. Moving mass low is good. An eRay with an extra 300lbs of battery and FWD will not outperform on the track (road course).
No... that's not how it works. Adding mass is bad; period. Moving mass low is good. An eRay with an extra 300lbs of battery and FWD will not outperform on the track (road course).
What's there to "sigh about" The C8 Z51 is not traction limited at all. Add a battery pack and FWD driveline and it'll be a 4000-4100 lb car. The car is already very hard on tires and brakes at a trackday due to it's mass. I wore out a set of tires and front pads in 2 track weekends at VIR. Adding weight won't help.
Have no idea what the engines will be in the Z06 or Zora, too much speculation. And if something like the previously planned ~40 mpg requirement is implemented for the Corvette family (as well as Ferrari, Porsche etc) than could still have a low mpg Zora in the blended mix. Per the requirements in the 1174 page very detailed report, that works because there would be few $140,000+ Zora's sold to significantly influence the "average Corvette mpg." . For all those "hoping" the Z06 would not be subjected to the high mpg requirement, IMO too many are typically sold so would think at least in a few years that could not happen.
However the Pandemic and current "no fossil fuel" sentiment by enough folks (and those in control) may change the plan and it's possible just paying money or because you can afford a very expensive car polluting the Earth with higher CO2 will not be allowed! As the 1174 page report noted, it's NOT a gas guzzler tax paid by the purchaser, it's a "prohibitive" fine for the manufacture. Particularly in Europe, there will probably be maximum CO2/km requirements as they use a direct measure NOT some family average!
Also since Mary Barra and company is investing ~30 billion in new battery technology with a South Korean company, my guess is the Next Corvette model will be an EV. That battery plant is under construction in Lordstown OH. Having moved many of the "Corvette Engineers" on EV projects may be the way GM will introduce EV technology in cars and trucks with a high end EV Vette. We'll see now with a government in the US very sympathetic to eliminating fossil fuel and therefore ICEs the manufacturers, like Ferrari, who have waited for a "government" to take the blame for starting the ICE when the hybrid electric motor brings the car to ~35 mph MAY COME OUT OF THE CLOSET WITH THIER PLANS!
It's funny, on the Corvette forum, so many only think parochially about pollution and "what might be next" with EV. If we look a little past our own back yard you see some of the rest of the first world is far beyond where we are today. I think Mary Barra is being very smart in what she is doing BC you don't want to be late to this party. AND ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!
I'm a huge fan of AMG GTs as one of my close relatives has one. Here is a recent excerpt from a MB AMG forum:
When I spoke to my dealer last, he suggested that Mercedes-AMG have temporarily stopped taking orders on all AMG GTC / GTR variants (or making allocations) This is until April 2021 as the Daimler Group have run out of carbon credits and need to stay within EU emissions targets or risk large fines.
This comes from a guy in the US wanting to buy a 2021 GT and can't BC the parent company in Germany is not allowed to produce more product until their carbon credits catch up to the calendar.
The government has ways of "bending the curve". When stuff like this reaches our shores (SOON), it won't make much difference whether BG can produce 180 C8s a day or not. GM is being very smart now with predictions of the very near future.
Last edited by Alea_Iacta_Est; 02-09-2021 at 08:02 PM.
What's there to "sigh about" The C8 Z51 is not traction limited at all. Add a battery pack and FWD driveline and it'll be a 4000-4100 lb car. The car is already very hard on tires and brakes at a trackday due to it's mass. I wore out a set of tires and front pads in 2 track weekends at VIR. Adding weight won't help.
First you say added mass for a battery won't help performance. Now you say you're concerned about tires and brakes longevity.
With regard to performance, the hybrid will beat your car that lacks it, regardless of the weight. It will win in a straight line and on a road course. If you want to hang on to your "light weight is the only way" thing, then so be it. If after the hybrid is released its performance is not as good as the Stingray's on a road course, then I will be happy to admit I am wrong. But I am not the slightest bit concerned that I'll need to.
Regarding tire and brake longevity, perhaps the hybrid will have a shorter life for tires and brakes, but perhaps not. 🤷♂️ My Z06 chews on tires, but I could care less. That's the price of admission.
First you say added mass for a battery won't help performance. Now you say you're concerned about tires and brakes longevity.
With regard to performance, the hybrid will beat your car that lacks it, regardless of the weight. It will win in a straight line and on a road course. If you want to hang on to your "light weight is the only way" thing, then so be it. If after the hybrid is released its performance is not as good as the Stingray's on a road course, then I will be happy to admit I am wrong. But I am not the slightest bit concerned that I'll need to.
Regarding tire and brake longevity, perhaps the hybrid will have a shorter life for tires and brakes, but perhaps not. 🤷♂️ My Z06 chews on tires, but I could care less. That's the price of admission.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Running through $1700 sets of tire and $300 front pads is 3-4 track days isn’t “the price of admission”... it’s the issue tracking a heavy car. My C5Z. We’re 500lbs lighter than my C8 and my C5 racecar 700 lbs. could get multiple full race weekends out of tires and run brakes half a season. Weight matters. A hybrid base car will be garbage for trackday use. It will be excessively heavy, harder in consumables, and more prone to temp issues. It will only be a little faster on long straights when the battery has full power and the car isn’t hot. It won’t be faster off a turn. It won’t be better at braking, and it won’t handle better.
You are asking the right questions. In the big scheme of things the E-ray is just another "little" market play thing just as I consider Tesla's at 250K cars a year world wide, a niche play thing.
But just like for solar and wind push of yesteryear, there will be a time for a reality check. Either we literally stop the current mobility models or EVs won't cut it just like solar and wind cannot keep millions of people warm in their houses during the winter.
So the grid is one good way to look at it but mobility and lifecycle cost in the industrialized world is the other. I am mostly a Corvette "cruiser" so EV to keep things quite for leisure rides is not bad but I really would like to see the lifecycle battery replacement costs to see how much that nice quietness real price is.....
Actually the eRay is the tip of the iceberg for Corvettes going electric. Your sales estimates of "niche play thing" - Tesla is off by half. They sold @500,000 cars last year. Within a year they should be at a sales rate of 1 million plus per year - they are adding 2 new plants - Berlin and Austin - and Shanghai is not yet at full production.
The reality is that renewable energy will become the primary source of electricity production. The question is not if but when?
You are asking the right questions. In the big scheme of things the E-ray is just another "little" market play thing just as I consider Tesla's at 250K cars a year world wide, a niche play thing.
But just like for solar and wind push of yesteryear, there will be a time for a reality check. Either we literally stop the current mobility models or EVs won't cut it just like solar and wind cannot keep millions of people warm in their houses during the winter.
So the grid is one good way to look at it but mobility and lifecycle cost in the industrialized world is the other. I am mostly a Corvette "cruiser" so EV to keep things quite for leisure rides is not bad but I really would like to see the lifecycle battery replacement costs to see how much that nice quietness real price is.....
"Going green" is a smokescreen, something the government says publicly to get you distracted, so that you spend time and mental energy debating the very legitimate but ultimately secondary question of how to power the transport.
Privately, the government wants to remove all human drivers from the road. The fact that most non-autonomous cars, also happen to be ICE, is a bonus for them.
You're not going to be allowed to own any car as personal property. You're only going to be allowed to hire-for-service - either on a pay-as-you-go or monthly/sub-type scheme. And this will be priced like a utility, just like the electricity and gas coming into your house. Need a ride during peak rush hour, when it will take the autonomous car the longest to deploy from its current location to you? $1/kwh. Conversely, need a ride when demand is at its lowest? $10 cents/kwh. The government has all the data generated by Uber/Lyft on how demand/surge pricing works.
This activity will not be handled directly by the government, either, just like how utilities are always subcontracted out to Con Ed, PG&E, etc. There's always (crooked crony) money to be made in government contracts.
The reality is that renewable energy will become the primary source of electricity production. The question is not if but when?
I’m in the energy business. This is patently false. We cannot power the modern world with renewables. We need to start building nuclear 5 years ago... we get 63% of our power from fossil fuels.
02-07-2021, 11:38 PM
