C7 to C8 Regrets?
10-28-2020, 12:02 PM
#61
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: NE South Carolina
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It's been 2 months and got past enjoying shifting my M7 2017 Grand Sport (which followed my M7 2014 Z51 and 6 speed C6) by using Manual Mode. Also used what Tadge said he does when slowing to a stop, pulled both paddles that disengages both clutches. Once stopped I release the left paddle and just before taking off release the right paddle and drive away. At a Red light may release both paddles, let the 1st gear clutch slip and it's ready to drive off.
SIDEBAR
You may have tried the above but recently a poster mentioned and I have set up Z MODE to do even more that I was trying to do driving in Manual MODE. With my C7's seldom used past 5th gear as I live in a rural area and take back roads the 20 miles into town. Lots of turns and pass farm fields with no homes, traffic or people. In the C8, 6th gear is about the same ratio as 5th with my M7s. Seldom used 6th with the M7 as no need and only used 7th on the Interstate that I seldom took. Even in town, would be in 5th and downshifted to 3rd for turns. So in Manual Mode would shift the C8 through 6th gear. BUT found if I set Z MODE similar to MY MODE (which is where I also mostly drive,) i.e. NPP set to Track, Steering, Braking and Ride in Sport and Power to Track it's even more aggressive!
First it often doesn't past 5th gear and holds rpm higher than I was in my normal driving. What was unexcepted is as soon as I slow it's downshifting automatically where I would normally pull the downshift paddle! I can and still do pull the downshift paddle when leaving the 65+ mph 4 lane highway in front of my street, with is 25 mph speed limit, which is a fun stop and turn, but it's usually doing it about where I would. If you have not tried suggest setting it up that way.
If you have done all that this might be helpful to some others and the other gearheads getting their 1st automatically shifted manual (actually 2!)
Yep glad I'm not stuck in the past as this 78 year old would still be using a slide rule as I did in College!
Last edited by JerryU; 10-28-2020 at 12:15 PM.
10-28-2020, 12:16 PM
#62
I still have my manual c7z and I cant wait to ditch it for a PROPER auto. So yes I wont miss the manual once it's gone. I did find myself looking for the clutch though when I got rid of my manual daily and got myself into a daily auto. Now I dont do that anymore, months later. You adapt quick lollzzz
easy. Vin number. I was able to find my talon tsi from way back in the day when I found an old insurance card with the vin. Having someone that can search it with the number comes in handy too.
FWIW, this is my first DD in 60 years without a 3rd peddle and an automatically shifted manual (really 2.) That includes my CJ5 Jeep, two trucks and my first of 6 Vettes, a 1988. Few folks bought that standard shift as it had a Doug Nash (old Hot Rodder) supplied GM 4 speed with an added overdrive in the tailshaft. Could activate OD in 2nd, 3rd and 4th with a button on the shifter for 7 split gears. It was the exact same price as the auto that year! Needed to be a purest! It was also my 1st DD with AC as moved down South a 2 years prior and my Black (also 7 speed) Dodge Colt Turbo was so hot when I left work in the summer I was soaking wet when I got home!
It's been 2 months and got past enjoying shifting my M7 2017 Grand Sport (which followed my M7 2014 Z51 and 6 speed C6) by using Manual Mode. Also used what Tadge said he does when slowing to a stop, pulled both paddles that disengages both clutches. Once stopped I release the left paddle and just before taking off release the right paddle and drive away. At a Red light I may release both paddles, let the 1st gear clutch slip and it's ready to drive off.
SIDEBAR
You may have tried the above but recently a poster mentioned and I have set up Z MODE to do even more that I was trying to do driving in Manual MODE. With my C7's seldom used past 5th gear as I live in a rural area and take back roads the 20 miles into town. Lots of turns and pass farm fields with no homes , traffic or people. In the C8, 6th gear is about the same ratio as 5th with my M7s. Seldom used 6th as no need and only used 7th on the Interstate that I seldom took. Even in town, would be in 5th and downshifted to 3rd for turns. BUT found if I set Z MODE similar to MY MODE (which is where I also mostly drive,) i.e. NPP set to Track, steering and ride Sport and Power to Track it's even more aggressive!
First it often doesn't past 5th gear and holds rpm higher than in my normal driving. What was unexcepted is as soon as I slow it's downshifting automatically where I would normally pull the downshift paddle! I can and still do pull a paddle when leaving the 65+ mph 4 lane highway in front of my street, with is 25 mph speed limit, which is a fun stop and turn, but it's usually doing it about where I would. If you have not tried suggest setting it up that way.
If you have done all that this might be helpful to some others and the other gearheads getting their 1st automatically shifted manual (actually 2!) Yep glad I'm not stuck in the past as this 78 year old would still be using a slide rule as I did in College!
It's been 2 months and got past enjoying shifting my M7 2017 Grand Sport (which followed my M7 2014 Z51 and 6 speed C6) by using Manual Mode. Also used what Tadge said he does when slowing to a stop, pulled both paddles that disengages both clutches. Once stopped I release the left paddle and just before taking off release the right paddle and drive away. At a Red light I may release both paddles, let the 1st gear clutch slip and it's ready to drive off.
SIDEBAR
You may have tried the above but recently a poster mentioned and I have set up Z MODE to do even more that I was trying to do driving in Manual MODE. With my C7's seldom used past 5th gear as I live in a rural area and take back roads the 20 miles into town. Lots of turns and pass farm fields with no homes , traffic or people. In the C8, 6th gear is about the same ratio as 5th with my M7s. Seldom used 6th as no need and only used 7th on the Interstate that I seldom took. Even in town, would be in 5th and downshifted to 3rd for turns. BUT found if I set Z MODE similar to MY MODE (which is where I also mostly drive,) i.e. NPP set to Track, steering and ride Sport and Power to Track it's even more aggressive!
First it often doesn't past 5th gear and holds rpm higher than in my normal driving. What was unexcepted is as soon as I slow it's downshifting automatically where I would normally pull the downshift paddle! I can and still do pull a paddle when leaving the 65+ mph 4 lane highway in front of my street, with is 25 mph speed limit, which is a fun stop and turn, but it's usually doing it about where I would. If you have not tried suggest setting it up that way.
If you have done all that this might be helpful to some others and the other gearheads getting their 1st automatically shifted manual (actually 2!)
Yep glad I'm not stuck in the past as this 78 year old would still be using a slide rule as I did in College!Nice!! Dailying a manual got old quick. But let's not turn this thread into another dumb manual thread. That's for another thread.
10-28-2020, 12:41 PM
#63
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Shaka (10-28-2020)
10-28-2020, 01:43 PM
#64
I get what you're saying... the fact that on a road course the performance isn't night and day different between the C8 and C7. However, the few bits of data we have do show the C8 laps faster than the C7. Yes, it does take 35 more hp to do it and newer Michelin tires which may be a bit stickier... but it is a bit faster. And it is easier to drive... more understeer at the limit, no manual and clutch.
10-28-2020, 01:51 PM
#65
Banned Scam/Spammer
I get what you're saying... the fact that on a road course the performance isn't night and day different between the C8 and C7. However, the few bits of data we have do show the C8 laps faster than the C7. Yes, it does take 35 more hp to do it and newer Michelin tires which may be a bit stickier... but it is a bit faster. And it is easier to drive... more understeer at the limit, no manual and clutch.
Last edited by punky; 10-28-2020 at 01:52 PM.
10-28-2020, 03:26 PM
#66
You can be certain that very, very, few C8 buyers care about "lap times". There are obviously a few but not many and an even smaller # who base a purchase decision on these stats. What difference does it really make if the C8 is 1 second, 2 seconds, ... faster than a C7 on some road course that 99% of us will never see or ever care about.
I keep parroting the same thing. This is a BASE car people are afraid of. So they use roll racing and high speed tracks to help their argument. Saying oh the c8 isnt fast here, it's not fast after 140mph etc etc. Lolzzzz.
Like yeah durr it's a base car. It's only the beginning. Base car is already so much better than the c7 base when it debuted.
10-28-2020, 04:08 PM
#67
I get what you're saying... the fact that on a road course the performance isn't night and day different between the C8 and C7. However, the few bits of data we have do show the C8 laps faster than the C7. Yes, it does take 35 more hp to do it and newer Michelin tires which may be a bit stickier... but it is a bit faster. And it is easier to drive... more understeer at the limit, no manual and clutch.
1. The site lines in the C8 are vastly better. Much improved driving experience seeing the track/road.
2. The steering ratio is much quicker. You're never shuffle steering and never get your arms crossed up (on track or even tail of the tragon). It's awesome.
3. Never have to take your hands off the wheel or move your left leg so you never give up your bracing. All my past cars/Corvettes were sticks. Tracking a DCT is a lot of fun as you can hold yourself in the seat better and really focus on driving w/o having to move your left leg and right arm.
4. Steering feel... the entire rack and shaft are stiffer... you feel it... it's more precise.
5. At VIR my Stingray C7 would do 148-150 at best. The C8 does 152-156. It's noticeably faster in all areas.
6. Braking... the 60% rear weight bias causes the C8 to squat hard and doesn't move around at all. The C5/6/7 nose dives and can dancer around under hard braking, especially into T1 at VIR.
That's just a few.... tracked them all and C8 is the best out of the box trackday vette GM has made. Needs nothing other than brake fluid and alignment. My C7 Z51 needed AFE swaybars to not flop all over the place.
Last edited by RapidC84B; 10-28-2020 at 04:45 PM.
10-28-2020, 04:49 PM
#68
@Savoy2001 you clearly haven't driven one on track. The car is much more than the raw statistics. See below.
Actually the MPSS are a better track tire than the PS4S. I have tracked both cars on their respective tires now and much prefer the MPSS. The new tire is nearly as good, but it's better in the cold and went. It's not a better track tire. Some observations:
1. The site lines in the C8 are vastly better. Much improved driving experience seeing the track/road.
2. The steering ratio is much quicker. You're never shuffle steering and never get your arms crossed up (on track or even tail of the tragon). It's awesome.
3. Never have to take your hands off the wheel or move your left leg so you never give up your bracing. All my past cars/Corvettes were sticks. Tracking a DCT is a lot of fun as you can hold yourself in the seat better and really focus on driving w/o having to move your left leg and right arm.
4. Steering feel... the entire rack and shaft are stiffer... you feel it... it's more precise.
5. At VIR my Stingray C7 would do 148-150 at best. The C9 does 152-156. It's noticeably faster in all areas.
6. Braking... the 60% rear weight bias causes the C8 to squat hard and doesn't move around at all. The C5/6/7 nose dives and can dancer around under hard braking, especially into T1 at VIR.
That's just a few.... tracked them all and C8 is the best out of the box trackday vette GM has made. Needs nothing other than brake fluid and alignment. My C7 Z51 needed AFE swaybars to not flop all over the place.
Actually the MPSS are a better track tire than the PS4S. I have tracked both cars on their respective tires now and much prefer the MPSS. The new tire is nearly as good, but it's better in the cold and went. It's not a better track tire. Some observations:
1. The site lines in the C8 are vastly better. Much improved driving experience seeing the track/road.
2. The steering ratio is much quicker. You're never shuffle steering and never get your arms crossed up (on track or even tail of the tragon). It's awesome.
3. Never have to take your hands off the wheel or move your left leg so you never give up your bracing. All my past cars/Corvettes were sticks. Tracking a DCT is a lot of fun as you can hold yourself in the seat better and really focus on driving w/o having to move your left leg and right arm.
4. Steering feel... the entire rack and shaft are stiffer... you feel it... it's more precise.
5. At VIR my Stingray C7 would do 148-150 at best. The C9 does 152-156. It's noticeably faster in all areas.
6. Braking... the 60% rear weight bias causes the C8 to squat hard and doesn't move around at all. The C5/6/7 nose dives and can dancer around under hard braking, especially into T1 at VIR.
That's just a few.... tracked them all and C8 is the best out of the box trackday vette GM has made. Needs nothing other than brake fluid and alignment. My C7 Z51 needed AFE swaybars to not flop all over the place.
10-28-2020, 04:52 PM
#69
@Savoy2001 you clearly haven't driven one on track. The car is much more than the raw statistics. See below.
Actually the MPSS are a better track tire than the PS4S. I have tracked both cars on their respective tires now and much prefer the MPSS. The new tire is nearly as good, but it's better in the cold and went. It's not a better track tire. Some observations:
1. The site lines in the C8 are vastly better. Much improved driving experience seeing the track/road.
2. The steering ratio is much quicker. You're never shuffle steering and never get your arms crossed up (on track or even tail of the tragon). It's awesome.
3. Never have to take your hands off the wheel or move your left leg so you never give up your bracing. All my past cars/Corvettes were sticks. Tracking a DCT is a lot of fun as you can hold yourself in the seat better and really focus on driving w/o having to move your left leg and right arm.
4. Steering feel... the entire rack and shaft are stiffer... you feel it... it's more precise.
5. At VIR my Stingray C7 would do 148-150 at best. The C8 does 152-156. It's noticeably faster in all areas.
6. Braking... the 60% rear weight bias causes the C8 to squat hard and doesn't move around at all. The C5/6/7 nose dives and can dancer around under hard braking, especially into T1 at VIR.
That's just a few.... tracked them all and C8 is the best out of the box trackday vette GM has made. Needs nothing other than brake fluid and alignment. My C7 Z51 needed AFE swaybars to not flop all over the place.
Actually the MPSS are a better track tire than the PS4S. I have tracked both cars on their respective tires now and much prefer the MPSS. The new tire is nearly as good, but it's better in the cold and went. It's not a better track tire. Some observations:
1. The site lines in the C8 are vastly better. Much improved driving experience seeing the track/road.
2. The steering ratio is much quicker. You're never shuffle steering and never get your arms crossed up (on track or even tail of the tragon). It's awesome.
3. Never have to take your hands off the wheel or move your left leg so you never give up your bracing. All my past cars/Corvettes were sticks. Tracking a DCT is a lot of fun as you can hold yourself in the seat better and really focus on driving w/o having to move your left leg and right arm.
4. Steering feel... the entire rack and shaft are stiffer... you feel it... it's more precise.
5. At VIR my Stingray C7 would do 148-150 at best. The C8 does 152-156. It's noticeably faster in all areas.
6. Braking... the 60% rear weight bias causes the C8 to squat hard and doesn't move around at all. The C5/6/7 nose dives and can dancer around under hard braking, especially into T1 at VIR.
That's just a few.... tracked them all and C8 is the best out of the box trackday vette GM has made. Needs nothing other than brake fluid and alignment. My C7 Z51 needed AFE swaybars to not flop all over the place.
You are correct I’ve never tracked either car. Then again I didn’t say I did. I was going off of numbers with each car rubbing the same track with Same driver on same day with the same conditions. The c8 while more idiot proof and easier to drive at the limit isn’t much faster. ME or not it is not much faster than the out going car period. You can say whatever else you want to say but the lap times tell the story. ME so far in the base car at least hasn’t changed the performance of the car in so far as track times and lap times go. I didn’t say it wasn’t easier to drive. We know the car is easier to drive ben documented many times.
10-28-2020, 04:57 PM
#70
They only call out lap times when their dream car is getting crushed by another car. Other than that they really have nothing to say.
I keep parroting the same thing. This is a BASE car people are afraid of. So they use roll racing and high speed tracks to help their argument. Saying oh the c8 isnt fast here, it's not fast after 140mph etc etc. Lolzzzz.
Like yeah durr it's a base car. It's only the beginning. Base car is already so much better than the c7 base when it debuted.
I keep parroting the same thing. This is a BASE car people are afraid of. So they use roll racing and high speed tracks to help their argument. Saying oh the c8 isnt fast here, it's not fast after 140mph etc etc. Lolzzzz.
Like yeah durr it's a base car. It's only the beginning. Base car is already so much better than the c7 base when it debuted.
It’s all good though mr lolzzzzz. Like I said I like the car. I’ve driven one many times now. I want the z version as long as they don’t disappoint me with it. lolzzzzz.
Last edited by Savoy2001; 10-28-2020 at 04:59 PM.
10-28-2020, 05:09 PM
#71
Racer
I agree since I put down a deposit back in September 2019 thinking I would have my C8 mid-summer 2020. Now waiting on my C8 and winter is coming. I will not even get to 500 miles before spring comes.
10-28-2020, 05:11 PM
#72
You are correct I’ve never tracked either car. Then again I didn’t say I did. I was going off of numbers with each car rubbing the same track with Same driver on same day with the same conditions. The c8 while more idiot proof and easier to drive at the limit isn’t much faster. ME or not it is not much faster than the out going car period. You can say whatever else you want to say but the lap times tell the story. ME so far in the base car at least hasn’t changed the performance of the car in so far as track times and lap times go. I didn’t say it wasn’t easier to drive. We know the car is easier to drive ben documented many times.
10-28-2020, 05:27 PM
#73
Ok that’s cool but that’s not exactly a fair comparison. Don’t you think the same driver on the same day with the same track conditions would give a more accurate assessment?
10-28-2020, 05:30 PM
#74
@Savoy2001 you clearly haven't driven one on track. The car is much more than the raw statistics. See below.
Actually the MPSS are a better track tire than the PS4S. I have tracked both cars on their respective tires now and much prefer the MPSS. The new tire is nearly as good, but it's better in the cold and went. It's not a better track tire. Some observations:
1. The site lines in the C8 are vastly better. Much improved driving experience seeing the track/road.
2. The steering ratio is much quicker. You're never shuffle steering and never get your arms crossed up (on track or even tail of the tragon). It's awesome.
3. Never have to take your hands off the wheel or move your left leg so you never give up your bracing. All my past cars/Corvettes were sticks. Tracking a DCT is a lot of fun as you can hold yourself in the seat better and really focus on driving w/o having to move your left leg and right arm.
4. Steering feel... the entire rack and shaft are stiffer... you feel it... it's more precise.
5. At VIR my Stingray C7 would do 148-150 at best. The C8 does 152-156. It's noticeably faster in all areas.
6. Braking... the 60% rear weight bias causes the C8 to squat hard and doesn't move around at all. The C5/6/7 nose dives and can dancer around under hard braking, especially into T1 at VIR.
That's just a few.... tracked them all and C8 is the best out of the box trackday vette GM has made. Needs nothing other than brake fluid and alignment. My C7 Z51 needed AFE swaybars to not flop all over the place.
Actually the MPSS are a better track tire than the PS4S. I have tracked both cars on their respective tires now and much prefer the MPSS. The new tire is nearly as good, but it's better in the cold and went. It's not a better track tire. Some observations:
1. The site lines in the C8 are vastly better. Much improved driving experience seeing the track/road.
2. The steering ratio is much quicker. You're never shuffle steering and never get your arms crossed up (on track or even tail of the tragon). It's awesome.
3. Never have to take your hands off the wheel or move your left leg so you never give up your bracing. All my past cars/Corvettes were sticks. Tracking a DCT is a lot of fun as you can hold yourself in the seat better and really focus on driving w/o having to move your left leg and right arm.
4. Steering feel... the entire rack and shaft are stiffer... you feel it... it's more precise.
5. At VIR my Stingray C7 would do 148-150 at best. The C8 does 152-156. It's noticeably faster in all areas.
6. Braking... the 60% rear weight bias causes the C8 to squat hard and doesn't move around at all. The C5/6/7 nose dives and can dancer around under hard braking, especially into T1 at VIR.
That's just a few.... tracked them all and C8 is the best out of the box trackday vette GM has made. Needs nothing other than brake fluid and alignment. My C7 Z51 needed AFE swaybars to not flop all over the place.
ME definitely looking like it's a better platform for the corvette brand after all. That's great to know!!!
SHEESH!
10-28-2020, 08:07 PM
#76
Nah you did the right thing. The value will plummet the more people get their hands on C8's.
And even moreso when GM announces the C8Z. C7 values across the board will drop.
I'm banking on the manual C7 holding their value a bit better. Then when it's C8Z time, CYA C7!
And even moreso when GM announces the C8Z. C7 values across the board will drop.
I'm banking on the manual C7 holding their value a bit better. Then when it's C8Z time, CYA C7!
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RK43 (10-28-2020)
10-28-2020, 10:05 PM
#77
It’s the best GM development driver’s all time best lap vs. a magazine hot shoe with limited seat time. I’d wager the gap would be larger if Pobst had more seat time.
10-29-2020, 11:04 AM
#78
I’m well aware of who Jim mero is and who Randy pobst is. That still doesn’t change the fact that when you’re looking for like comparison you use the same driver in the same cars on the same day under the same conditions. Or I guess magazines and other publications go through all that trouble just for the kicks? 2/10ths is a decent amount and yes lap after lap that adds up but that still doesn’t justify a whole new platform that’s supposed (or was implied to be) way better than the old. Sorry just calling it like I see it. Doesn’t mean I don’t like the car. Just that I had a feeling when they were touting this me platform as the second coming I had a gut feeling it wasn’t going to be the be all end all. They had performance on the c7 and all its iterations pretty dialed in. These things can only get so good given the power levels and weight.
10-29-2020, 11:10 AM
#79
I’m well aware of who Jim mero is and who Randy pobst is. That still doesn’t change the fact that when you’re looking for like comparison you use the same driver in the same cars on the same day under the same conditions. Or I guess magazines and other publications go through all that trouble just for the kicks? 2/10ths is a decent amount and yes lap after lap that adds up but that still doesn’t justify a whole new platform that’s supposed (or was implied to be) way better than the old. Sorry just calling it like I see it. Doesn’t mean I don’t like the car. Just that I had a feeling when they were touting this me platform as the second coming I had a gut feeling it wasn’t going to be the be all end all. They had performance on the c7 and all its iterations pretty dialed in. These things can only get so good given the power levels and weight.
By your logic a track record shouldn't count or be recorded in a racing class because it wasn't done at the same time/day as the prior record.
Best C7 Z51 time ever recored by GM's best driver 2:02.9
Randy Pobst's best time with a few laps 2:00.8
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Z0HS1CK (10-29-2020)
10-29-2020, 11:14 AM
#80
2 seconds at VIR... not 0.2 seconds.
By your logic a track record shouldn't count or be recorded in a racing class because it wasn't done at the same time/day as the prior record.
Best C7 Z51 time ever recored by GM's best driver 2:02.9
Randy Pobst's best time with a few laps 2:00.8
By your logic a track record shouldn't count or be recorded in a racing class because it wasn't done at the same time/day as the prior record.
Best C7 Z51 time ever recored by GM's best driver 2:02.9
Randy Pobst's best time with a few laps 2:00.8