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There are just too many mechanical experts, nay sayers, legal experts, know it all people that want to ad their criticisms to what ideas we are posting. Obviously, these ideas are not the perfect solution to a problem that hasn’t been solved yet.
This is how the frunk interior child escape release needs to operate when the handle is pulled or the button is pushed to meet the NHTSA requirements:
1) Stopped - Fully unlatch.
2) Speed up to 3 mph - Partially or fully unlatch.
3) Speed above 3 mph - Partially unlatch.
If you have a system that does this then you have a solution.
So given what this update does, if indeed the Frunk opening stop then it would confirm this is/was 100% user error. Time will tell.
It actually won’t prove that at all. There is a least one pdr video showing there were zero warning chimes or alerts on the DIC prior to one owner’s frunk popping open meaning it was not opened prior to the owner driving away. Another owner showed pictures of his car immediately prior to the frunk popping open clearly showing it was closed & according to his account the fob was in cup holder. Yet another owner reported the rear trunk popping open when backing out of the garage with the fob in the cup holder.
Considering we haven’t seen video of the other 11+ reported to the NHTSA nobody on this forum can prove or disprove user error in any of those instances.
Tadge’s wording was very carefully scripted to continue GM’s narrative of blaming the owner though.
It actually won’t prove that at all. There is a least one pdr video showing there were zero warning chimes or alerts on the DIC prior to one owner’s frunk popping open meaning it was not opened prior to the owner driving away. Another owner showed pictures of his car immediately prior to the frunk popping open clearly showing it was closed & according to his account the fob was in cup holder. Yet another owner reported the rear trunk popping open when backing out of the garage with the fob in the cup holder.
Considering we haven’t seen video of the other 11+ reported to the NHTSA nobody on this forum can prove or disprove user error in any of those instances.
Tadge’s wording was very carefully scripted to continue GM’s narrative of blaming the owner though.
So if we never see another frunk opening incident after this recall, which did nothing beyond making it harder for user error to cause the frunk opening, you are saying that it is not user error?
Yes, your post was cryptic, thus misleading. Hence, my clarification that the same latch with a cable attached by drilling one hole in the catch would have worked. That was my only point.
Words do matter, and you neglected to use enough.
My post was entirely accurate, therefore not “WRONG” to quote you. “WRONG” means not correct, I am correct.
Exactly what was cryptic? That latch as posted does not meet federal regulations for a front trunk. Your version is a stock C8 can go 150 mph in the quarter mile.
So if we never see another frunk opening incident after this recall, which did nothing beyond making it harder for user error to cause the frunk opening, you are saying that it is not user error?
Correct. Just because Tadge says this software update fixes the fob opening the frunk before starting the car doesn’t mean it didn’t fix other issues that were found possibly relating to rogue electrical signals popping the frunk in a car that was already in drive and/or moving.
As indicated by the more than one example from members on this forum, the car was already moving without any warning chimes and the frunk popped open. Tadge, Jeremy, and even you tubers have shown the fob does not work to open the frunk when the vehicle is in drive, so if this update only fixed the fob, then it didn’t fix what caused those other incidents.
If we don’t see any more openings, what it does mean is GM most likely fixed another electrical fault and can stick to their user error story.
They do this constantly - just look at LS7 engine failures and they finally came out and said they found the problem but it only affected certain years and a very small percentage of engines (10%). They claimed that by cherry picking a very specific data set of warranty repairs between a certain time period. All data can be manipulated to say what you want it to say. GM says the LS7 machining error was fixed and no more problems yet there are countless owners of vehicles (both Corvette & Camaro) after this “fix” that have the exact same engine failure. GM sticks to their story that is was only between certain years, identified & fixed.
Same thing here. They’re claiming the frunk was already opened before the owners drove away & that they “inadvertently” opened the frunk with the fob and “didn’t notice”. If that is the “problem” they identified and changing the operation of the fob fixes that “problem” then they can stick to their claim. But anyone with any research background knows it’s near impossible to prove user error unless you actually witness the scenario occur.
Why just a few hoods popping open in such a short period of time? Is there a common denominator? Even if we don’t know the exact number of hoods popping, shouldn’t it be in the hundreds?
Why just a few hoods popping open in such a short period of time? Is there a common denominator? Even if we don’t know the exact number of hoods popping, shouldn’t it be in the hundreds?
We have only heard/read of a few from members on the forums. That’s a very small sample size of owners and doesn’t account for any owner who hasn’t reported it, isn’t a member on the forums, simply got out and shut it after it popped, etc. There is no way to know how many owners this has happened to, so we shouldn’t assume it’s only a handful. What would be fair to assume is that there is a bigger issue because they put a hold on all cars until this software fix was developed which would be odd if it had only affected .17% of vehicles (12/~7,000).
.... What would be fair to assume is that there is a bigger issue because they put a hold on all cars until this software fix was developed which would be odd if it had only affected .17% of vehicles (12/~7,000).
FWIW, it's NOT 7- even if it's 50 out of 7000 cars. Also those where it happened worked fine for many starts after! Forum reports show there were <10/12 had hoods that flew up. That has to be compared to 5+ million times a C8 was started and the hood did NOT fly up. With 7000+ C8 out, some out many months, that is probably how many were started and driven without a hood flying up! Probably more who saw the hood was up from dash warnings or visually and shut it.
SIDEBAR
Not saying it was not a potentially series issue as NOT knowing what caused the hood to open and folks not to see it. In fact if GM had not issued their "Suspenders" fix (as I expected they would) to their existing "Belt" hood's open warnings, I would have installed a Tether when I picked up my C8 (built last week.) Like the idea they installed the max 26 mph speed if opened and provided an improved FOB button open sequence to reduce "pocket call" inadvertent activation.
However, 1) as suspected, with the Lab work and research GM has no doubt done to identify the reason, 2) Jeremy's great analysis of one video where the owner believed it was NOT Open before he drove but showed in fact it was and 3) every one that was reported to fly open, occurred at a low speed one would expect a light weight C8 hood to fly up if driven - I'm not installing a Tether. Frankly the Forum has a way of creating hysteria over whatever! Fortunately, most C8 buyers don't read it or some of us who do - understand!
FWIW, it's NOT 7 so even if it's 50 out of 7000 cars. Forum reports show say there were <10 had hoods that flew up. That has to be compared to 5+ million times a C8 was started and the hood did NOT fly up. With 7000+ C8 out, some out many months, that is probably how many were started and driven without a hood flying up! Probably more who saw the hood was up from dash warnings or visually and shut it.
The percentage of C8 hoods coming up is significantly greater than other cars with a similar frunk hood latch design. There's a million Teslas and McLarens on the road and they haven't had this number of hoods come up.
I have flown extremely complicated aircraft in the military, learned the inner workings and designs of every single system on those aircraft because I spent many long hours in the middle of the Oceans where I could NOT PULL OVER AND PARK on the nearest cloud and on more than one occasion I had to use that knowledge for stuff that was not in the books to handle Life or Death Situations. So don't tell me when my Rear trunk Opened on its own and i say it was NOT User Error, I do not know what i am talking about. Again, I am sure some incidents May be User error, But NOT EVERY ONE, especially mine that I have first hand knowledge of.
The first picture is what the average civilian pilot is expected to know, the second is what the average copilot in the Navy is expected to know, the last picture is what the Navy Plane Commander is Demanded to know from Memory! In the later is a real world incident that never ever happened before I discovered it. Basically only 1 side of a relay failed vs the entire relay. This specific situation was not included in the many pages of emergency procedures a Plane Commander was drilled on for 2 days before becoming Certified for that position. Frankly, a Doctoral Dissertation pales in comparison! By being able to understand the intricacies of system designs and their inner workings, I personally saved all of you taxpayers more than my salary over a decade on that one incident. The maintenance department told me when I returned that they had never seen only 1 side of this relay ever fail. It has always been the entire relay that has failed. So when I say, I heard the rear trunk open on its own, I am not one of the User Error events. And with the OTAU snafu, I have now lost all faith in their IT abilities. Wire w Carabiner will be staying ON!
This is not a personal pat on the back, This is why the US military is Second to NONE!
Airplanes have two and three levels of redundancy of systems, that's why they are as reliable as they are. What will you attribute your rear hatch to if it never pops again???? A computer in a bad mood?
08-25-2020, 07:28 PM
