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Porsche is probably a great car! Ride,quality etc.
I don't care for the way they look.
Only the 918!
Although I happen to like the styling on recent P car models, I totally agree with your point. For cars in this category and at this price point (sports/high performance), I need to really like the styling to be in love with the car. Unfortunately, I just can't get there with the rear end styling on the C8. I'm hoping that the wide body Z06 version will somehow calm down the mishmash of shapes and angles in the rear.
Being fair to both brands, until the C8 gets in the hands of the new owners that also have late model Porsche experience, it's all basically pooled ignorance. That goes for me too, I'm just glad I get a brand new car with a warranty and based on all the reviews so far have high hopes, but that's all I have.
Being fair to both brands, until the C8 gets in the hands of the new owners that also have late model Porsche experience, it's all basically pooled ignorance. That goes for me too, I'm just glad I get a brand new car with a warranty and based on all the reviews so far have high hopes, but that's all I have.
Exactly this. I see many conclusions being brought upon by past experiences when the C8 isn't in customer hands yet. The C8 is a different car from the C7 that has a lot of new ideas and innovations in it. You really can't use the C7 as a basis for what the C8 is. All we have are facts from the reviewers that say if placed on the same track on the same day...the Vette wins if only marginally.
Last edited by JasonVette; 02-12-2020 at 04:08 PM.
Sorry, I also don't do non sequiturs. Let's just say we have differing view points and agree to disagree. I really liked my C7 Z Vert but I guess I am just a bigger P car enthusiast.
I can understand waxing poetic about a Ferrari. But, a Porsche? Not really. Porsches have never been great exercises in engineering excellence. There is actually more engineering in the C8, SLA suspensions vs struts, etc... The Porsche engine is superior to the C8s for now, but probably not for long with the FPC V8 due out soon.
Some of the above posts mention the Porsches better suspension tuning, but that is just tuning. You can't magically change the Porsche to mid engine (911) or replace its struts with wishbones; whereas, it is relatively simple to tune a suspension to the handling traits that you desire.
Those of you that like to extol the virtues of Porsches have not experienced the joy of having one pee all over you within a quarter of a mile from driving a new one off of the dealership lot! And, I feel sorry for those of you that get your feelings of self-worth from owning a Porsche.
I have owned two vettes in my life, the last being a C7 Z06 Vert, and two 911 Turbos (my current car is an '18 911 Turbo S) and I think it is fair to say the Engineering standards in a 911 definitely exceed those of a Corvette and there is little argument that the motoring and non motoring public perception of Porsche vs Chevy/GM is a pretty substantial gap. Call it brand perception or cache or whatever but it definitely exists. I think the bottom line is money, I doubt very few C8 buyers would disagree that they would trade their C8 for a $215K 2019 911 Turbo S if the opportunity presented it. Having said all that I think GM did a nice job with the C8, especially at the $60K price point, but the car just doesn't interest me, though I will take a look at the Z car(s) when they come out. For me, having sampled both cars I have decided I like the P car experience better.
I can understand what you're saying. I actually love the 911 and Corvette virtually the same. But if money were no object, and of course, it is, then I will
buy the Corvette. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain. Unfortunately cheaper in quality (slightly). Although most cost cutting is in the areas where it's not so
bad (interior, fit and finish) and not the really important stuff (drive train,suspension) so overall for the cost, I got to go with the Vette.
Being fair to both brands, until the C8 gets in the hands of the new owners that also have late model Porsche experience, it's all basically pooled ignorance. That goes for me too, I'm just glad I get a brand new car with a warranty and based on all the reviews so far have high hopes, but that's all I have.
Completely agree!
Originally Posted by usrodeo4
For me, having sampled both cars I have decided I like the P car experience better
Two of my track buddies just each bought a 2016 GT4. One for nearly $100K and another for $92K, both used (although with very little miles).
Not that Chevy products can't hold a candle. On paper my C7 Grand Sport is faster than both of their cars. But from an ownership perspective, and the overall package, I'd rather have THEIR car, which would mean trading in both my C7 Grand Sport and my MZ4 Coupe for.
And after attending Porsche Experience Center L.A. twice, I have to say, I am blown away. And I'm not easily blown away. They're just better cars, PERIOD. Just how refined and smooth it is to engage them at the limit, you can't buy that in a Corvette. Never have. Probably never will. It's just an incredible blend of on the edge rawness when it comes to a high revving engine, but perfectly controlled via a super refined PDK with everything engineered in a way where you know no short cut is taken, and no compromises made, because it's done and designed for discerning tastes.
Take the PDK for example. They've managed to program it in a way where, whether I'm shifting by myself, or having it shift for me, it is completely unobtrusive. First half dozen laps I was wringing the 992 C2S out for all it's worth, shifting all by myself, and then all of a sudden I realized I wasn't even shifting after a while because the transmission was that incredibly intuitive, that it was upshifting and downshifting in places where it predicted I would shift to get the maximum performance out of it. The traction control was again, intuitive and intervene only when I ask it to. Brakes feel PHENOMENAL with 100% confidence each and every time, no matter how much I push it. And not just work, FEEL great. Next level great. Like 1/10th of a millimeter of movement of my foot, it's feedback is immediately translated into pressure at the pistons. And I thought I would detect how the rear wheel steering would work, but they way they implemented it? I can't tell when it's doing it's thing.
I've owned and driven a wide variety of performance and luxury cars, from BMWs to Subarus to Mercs and Lexus. I've always resisted buying and owning a Porsche because, well, the stigma is even stronger than Corvette owner stigma. But there's a reason why Porsche is still the benchmark. It IS that good, even if you have to pay an exorbitant of money for that 1/10th extra.
I'm sorry, but anyone thinking the C8 is going to surpass the 992 is delusional. The C8's place is STILL the cheaper, not so well put together alternative to a Porsche.
I believe you are correct 100%. Unfortunately this is a Corvette forum and I'm sure people will be ripping into you very shortly...
Sorry, I also don't do non sequiturs. Let's just say we have differing view points and agree to disagree. I really liked my C7 Z Vert but I guess I am just a bigger P car enthusiast.
The car already is better than any expected AS A PROTOTYPE. We might be witnessing a production level C8 base car that is simply better than any sports car base in history bar none. Why people are not following this is beyond comprehension when every American award available has been given to this car in any competition it competes in. What is old history dosent stay around anymore in the automotive industry.
Not quite correct. The Hyundai Veloster beat the C8 for R&T Performance COTY award.
That just goes to show exactly how much weight you should put on meaningless car awards.
Went from a Z06 to a 911. Loved the Vette - hated the dealership experience. The C8 will be great car, no doubt about it ... but it'll always be a Chevy.
My C8 has never needed any service beyond oil changes. After the free ones, I do those myself. So it's hard to complain about the service department. If you're talking about the sales department, I'll put up with the Chevy "experience" considering the price difference.
I know I will sound horrible and snobby now ....
Yes, you do. I don't go to a car dealer for a 4 star meal. Change my oil and let me go. I have better things to do.
Last edited by Red Mist Rulz; 02-12-2020 at 06:02 PM.
Two of my track buddies just each bought a 2016 GT4. One for nearly $100K and another for $92K, both used (although with very little miles).
Not that Chevy products can't hold a candle. On paper my C7 Grand Sport is faster than both of their cars. But from an ownership perspective, and the overall package, I'd rather have THEIR car, which would mean trading in both my C7 Grand Sport and my MZ4 Coupe for.
And after attending Porsche Experience Center L.A. twice, I have to say, I am blown away. And I'm not easily blown away. They're just better cars, PERIOD. Just how refined and smooth it is to engage them at the limit, you can't buy that in a Corvette. Never have. Probably never will. It's just an incredible blend of on the edge rawness when it comes to a high revving engine, but perfectly controlled via a super refined PDK with everything engineered in a way where you know no short cut is taken, and no compromises made, because it's done and designed for discerning tastes.
Take the PDK for example. They've managed to program it in a way where, whether I'm shifting by myself, or having it shift for me, it is completely unobtrusive. First half dozen laps I was wringing the 992 C2S out for all it's worth, shifting all by myself, and then all of a sudden I realized I wasn't even shifting after a while because the transmission was that incredibly intuitive, that it was upshifting and downshifting in places where it predicted I would shift to get the maximum performance out of it. The traction control was again, intuitive and intervene only when I ask it to. Brakes feel PHENOMENAL with 100% confidence each and every time, no matter how much I push it. And not just work, FEEL great. Next level great. Like 1/10th of a millimeter of movement of my foot, it's feedback is immediately translated into pressure at the pistons. And I thought I would detect how the rear wheel steering would work, but they way they implemented it? I can't tell when it's doing it's thing.
I've owned and driven a wide variety of performance and luxury cars, from BMWs to Subarus to Mercs and Lexus. I've always resisted buying and owning a Porsche because, well, the stigma is even stronger than Corvette owner stigma. But there's a reason why Porsche is still the benchmark. It IS that good, even if you have to pay an exorbitant of money for that 1/10th extra.
I'm sorry, but anyone thinking the C8 is going to surpass the 992 is delusional. The C8's place is STILL the cheaper, not so well put together alternative to a Porsche.
You highlight an issue with any comparison between the 2 cars. Folks apply simple experiences and make universal judgments based on feel not empirical data.
You speak of traction control not intervening intrusively in the Porsche. But you can get that in the Corvette, you just have to know which mode to select. How many of the traction control and PTM modes did you try in the C7 before you came to this conclusions? Traction control is intervening in a the C7 because you have so much more torque lower in the power band not because the calibration is flawed as compared to the Porsche.
Again you mention rear wheel steering. Rear wheel steering is good if the engineers feel they need it to get the nose to turn in quicker. According to Corvette engineers they arent having and haven't had an issue getting the Vette to turn in quick enough so they dont need 4 wheel steering. So which is the better design? One could argue either way depending on which side of the fence you are on that day.
You speak of the PDK that exist today. Not the one that had teething problems and rough shifts years ago. So yes the PDK is refined. It should be its been around Porsche for over 35 years by one name or another. And it still cant handle the torque of GM's blown V8's. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...transmissions/
Porches are great cars. Excellent cars even. But dont go around thinking just because its a Porsche it is the end all to the sports car world.
You say from an ownership perspective, you would rather own the Porsche. Thats fine. But I am not sure that makes sense from a cost benefit point of view if its my money. The Chevy cost less up front, it cost less to maintain, parts and service are more accessible and it runs neck and neck with the Porsche.
If the roles were reversed everyone in the world would be praising the German engineers to high heaven. American engineers can provide a product that performs as well for half the cost, only to have reasonable folks claim that product is inferior. Only if the product is American made will folks have the arrogance to say such a thing.
If Porsche is so much better tell them to build a car as fast and as good as a C8 Corvette for $70K. GM's been doing what they cant do for years, its time folks acknowledge the fact.
02-12-2020, 03:56 PM
I don't go to a car dealer for a 4 star meal. Change my oil and let me go. I have better things to do.
