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Also, one of the lumbering BMWs won the race. They were not fast in qualifying, and they were not fast during the early stages of the race. IMSA must’ve let them use nitrous near the end....
This may come as a shock to you but the BMWs were the lightest cars in the GTLM class for this race. It's an easy mistake to make because uninformed NBC commentators were claiming the BMW was much heavier than Porsche the entire race. Truth is, the Porsches were the heaviest GTLM cars because of a BOP adjustment made the week before the race.
Moreover, the BMWs were fast all month at Daytona recording the fastest lap in some sessions of practice leading up to the Roar Before the 24. They qualified within 10ths of seconds from the pole winning Porsche. All the cars qualified within 10ths of seconds of the leader.
The question in endurance racing is always whether one can maintain qualifying pace for hours on end. The BMWs chose a smart strategy of staying in the thick of things, and the #25 car had a mechanical issue which put them laps down, but the #24 car took the lead near the mid-point and kept it pretty much all the way to the end.
This may come as a shock to you but the BMWs were the lightest cars in the GTLM class for this race. It's an easy mistake to make because uninformed NBC commentators were claiming the BMW was much heavier than Porsche the entire race. Truth is, the Porsches were the heaviest GTLM cars because of a BOP adjustment made the week before the race.
Moreover, the BMWs were fast all month recording the best lap in some sessions of practice leading up to the Roar Before the 24. They qualified within 10ths of seconds from the pole winning Porsche. All the cars qualified within 10ths of seconds of the leader.
The BMWs qualified fifth and sixth, behind both P-cars and both Corvettes. That one of the BMW boats set fastest lap in light of that fact is shocking.
For those of you who think this was anything other than a huge success, you don't know much about racing. What C8R got was literally about 36 hours of what they needed the most and didn't have, and that was TRACK DATA. Pratt's going to go back, study the sensor readings, rip the cars apart, look at and measure everything, and then make changes. The 3 car ran very well, the fuel nozzle issue will be corrected either by GM or IMSA.
Kudos to the crew of the 4 car, they did a damn good job, never gave up and got it back on the track. That's the kind of killer attitude that creates champion teams.
For those of you who think this was anything other than a huge success, you don't know much about racing. What C8R got was literally about 36 hours of what they needed the most and didn't have, and that was TRACK DATA. Pratt's going to go back and rip the cars apart, look at everything and make changes. The 3 car ran very well, the fuel nozzle issue will be corrected either by GM or IMSA.
That’s not an unreasonable opinion based on newness, but do you realize that Porsche was running a brand new car as well, not the same unit they ran last year? Maybe the Porsche car was not as dramatically new as the C8R, but new nonetheless.Corvette had nothing for those Porsches.
Last edited by quick04Z06; 01-26-2020 at 04:37 PM.
The BMWs qualified fifth and sixth, behind both P-cars and both Corvettes. That one of the BMW boats set fastest lap in light of that fact is shocking.
Yes, but as I said, the difference between 1st and last (7th) in qualifying was 10ths of seconds. That is meaningless in a 24-hour race. And as I also said, the BMW was the lightest "boat" in the race.
Yes, but as I said, the difference between 1st and last (7th) in qualifying was 10ths of seconds. That is meaningless in a 24 Hour race.
Actually I disagree completely. 3/10ths of a second per lap in a 24 hour race is miles apart at the finish line. Thanks to BOP, the cars are never very far apart in pace; by that I mean no car will be 4.2 seconds off the pace, for example. Early on the Corvettes could not get within 3/10ths of a second of the Porsches in race trim and this would’ve been for the first several hours of the race because I was paying careful attention. The BMWs early on were just hanging around, nothing more.
Last edited by quick04Z06; 01-26-2020 at 04:49 PM.
Some serious leg humping in here. Give the car time but that was a horrible showing. Switch to ME was to dominate and well it didn't. Not even close. The car has been in development since the C7 was rolled into production. If you think it hasn't had this track, this type of racing, this strenuous of a race in it's DNA since inception you are a fool. No track data prior to this? Hahaha It has been track tested I'm sure. It's not like the car has never seen a track. Keep making excuses.
Terrible showing and you people who think this is a win either have no gag reflexes or are blind. Pick one or both.
The car will be better but let's call a spade a spade.
Last edited by TLS_Addict; 01-26-2020 at 04:48 PM.
Actually I disagree completely. 3/10ths of a second per lap in a 24 hour race is miles apart at the finish line. Thanks to BOP, the cars are never very far apart in pace; by that I mean no car will be 4.2 seconds off the pace, for example. Early on the Corvettes could not get within 3/10ths of a second of the Porsches in race trim and this would’ve been for the first several hours of the race because I was paying careful attention. The BMWs early on were just hanging around, nothing more.
LOL . . . alrighty then. The BMWs ran much faster all month than they qualified. That's what IMSA pays attention to when deciding upon BOP adjustments of which there were none for BMW. They gave C8R more power and fuel, and slapped a weight penalty on Porsche.
Lastly racing conditions are vastly different from qualifying and the pace one can maintain in traffic, and over 24 hours. My point was starting position doesn't mean much in a 24 hour race, and the speed you qualify at isn't related to how fast one can be in the actual race. Performance in the pits, pit strategy, and fuel economy are far more important than starting position determined by qualifying.
Having a 4 series its nice to see the upset by the BMW M4GTS. Was surprised to see it win, expected the 911's to win even though they are on brand new platforms. Did think the C8 might make the podium but it seemed there were having issues in practice & qualifying.
Originally Posted by Strake
We were there for both days..... just got home moments ago. Disappointed somewhat, as the P cars were also essentially new as were the Corvettes. The P cars seemed SO strong and were able several times to run as a team, which didn't hurt.
The last pit stop for the Yellow #3 was about double the length of the BMW's and P cars. Couldn't hear the announcer talk, so don't know if something was getting fixed, or adjusted. Hopefully, they get it sorted out soon.
Originally Posted by roadbike56
The new C8 was impressive.
The new Porsche 911 was more impressive.
The official designation of the Porsche is 911 RSR-19. The '19' stands for 2019, when this car debuted in Europe in September at the the 4 hours of Silverstone. It's had four extra months of track development vs. Corvette's first race. It's also a refinement of the previous RSR whereas the Corvette is an entirely new platform in every way.
That’s not an unreasonable opinion based on newness, but do you realize that Porsche was running a brand new car as well, not the same unit they ran last year? Maybe the Porsche car was not as dramatically new as the C8R, but new nonetheless.Corvette had nothing for those Porsches.
Porsche has a totally different mindset on racing that GM has had and it shows. Porsche is racing and that tech goes to their street cars. I have hope that the new collaboration with GM and their IMSA/NASCAR focus will quickly pay dividends. The IMSA/WEC partnership and the right hand drive C8 gives me hope that GM is damn serious about racing.
Having a 4 series its nice to see the upset by the BMW M4GTS. Was surprised to see it win, expected the 911's to win even though they are on brand new platforms. Did think the C8 might make the podium but it seemed there were having issues in practice & qualifying.
If you have a 4 series then you MUST have known the racecar was a M8
That’s not an unreasonable opinion based on newness, but do you realize that Porsche was running a brand new car as well, not the same unit they ran last year? Maybe the Porsche car was not as dramatically new as the C8R, but new nonetheless.Corvette had nothing for those Porsches.
Yes it’s as said about 90% new, but it’s my understanding (please correct me if wrong) it’s the same basic platform from the WEC so it already has races behind it.
Some serious leg humping in here. Give the car time but that was a horrible showing. Switch to ME was to dominate and well it didn't. Not even close. The car has been in development since the C7 was rolled into production. If you think it hasn't had this track, this type of racing, this strenuous of a race in it's DNA since inception you are a fool. No track data prior to this? Hahaha It has been track tested I'm sure. It's not like the car has never seen a track. Keep making excuses.
Terrible showing and you people who think this is a win either have no gag reflexes or are blind. Pick one or both.
The car will be better but let's call a spade a spade.
I wasn't pleased, either, because not only was the C8R rear mid-engined, but its shape, size, etc., have all been optimized for racing from the beginning. It should have had everything going for it, and it was built and managed by a team that has been doing this for many years with consistently good results.
That said, the Porsches were a new chassis this year and are mid-engine (Despite Porsche having not built a mid-engined 911 street car, ahem) and the Ferrari is mid-engined. The BMW is front mid-engined, like the C7R. But, the BMW should not have been competitive. It was fifth and sixth in qualifying and was well off the pace in race trim for the first several hours of the race. Darn if the BMW didn't set fastest lap of the race on about lap 752 (give or take; apparently after IMSA let them use nitrous, LOL).
Foosh indicates the BMW was given the lowest weight, but that did not help it in qualifying and did not help it until the last four or five hours of the race. Until then, it was in the kennel. Plus, I suspect it should have suffered more tire wear, i.e. poorer balance, than the rear mid-engined cars. That late pace likely was some IMSA trick to keep Rahal-Letterman-Lanigan Racing around for the year, I suspect. Steel ***** in the chassis tubes that were let out in the pits to shed 45 pounds?
I always regret having to point to IMSA politics; but I do not feel I am mistaken, either....
Foosh indicates the BMW was given the lowest weight, but that did not help it in qualifying and did not help it until the last four or five hours of the race. Until then, it was in the kennel. Plus, I suspect it should have suffered more tire wear, i.e. poorer balance, than the rear mid-engined cars. That late pace likely was some IMSA trick to keep Rahal-Letterman-Lanigan Racing around for the year, I suspect. Steel ***** in the chassis tubes that were let out in the pits to shed 45 pounds?
No, I published the official IMSA specs. READ THE CHART published above. There were no changes to BMW BOP, including weight for this race. It was the lightest car in the race, according to official IMSA guidelines, not what I said. It is running at the same BOP dictated weight it was at the end of last season.
And if you were really paying as much attention as you claim to this series, you'd know that race speeds are very often different from qualifying speeds. It's what the cars have been doing in practice sessions that are often more telling, and the BMWs were fast all month.
LOL . . . alrighty then. The BMWs ran much faster all month than they qualified. That's what IMSA pays attention to when deciding upon BOP adjustments of which there were none for BMW. They gave C8R more power and fuel, and slapped a weight penalty on Porsche.
Lastly racing conditions are vastly different from qualifying and the pace one can maintain in traffic, and over 24 hours. My point was starting position doesn't mean much in a 24 hour race, and the speed you qualify at isn't related to how fast one can be in the actual race. Performance in the pits, pit strategy, and fuel economy are far more important than starting position determined by qualifying.
Have followed this all month. You and I see the same things and come to different conclusions. What you are really saying is BMW sandbagged the qualifying. Perhaps, but IMSA is supposed to be able to discern this from telemetry. IMSA got paid off? You are also saying BMW sandbagged about the first 18 hours of the race. Perhaps. They just were not competitive until later this morning. Their fastest lap was set on lap 752, or thereabouts (I forget exactly, but that is about right). If so, then I guess BMW and RLL Racing just out-thought the poor, ol' Corvette boys, the poor ol' Porsche boys, and outfoxed or outpaid IMSA.
May be....
In any event, 3/10ths per lap in our 24 hour race I will take any day. My tail lights will be just a distant memory by the time you reach the finish....
01-26-2020, 04:27 PM
The BMWs ran much faster all month than they qualified. That's what IMSA pays attention to when deciding upon BOP adjustments of which there were none for BMW. They gave C8R more power and fuel, and slapped a weight penalty on Porsche.
