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We bash greedy unions, but at the same time I don't love the thought of the average $16/hr temp having anything to do with my dream car.
My 2014 C7 was fine mechanically, but cosmetically the paint was poor and the body panels were assembled very sloppily. The panel gaps were poor and very inconsistent. I hope Chevy is not setting itself up for a repeat by rushing 2020 production out the door. All the C8 mules and captured test fleet appear to have MUCH improved panel fit and gap consistency vs. my C7 and most of the C7s I look at.
In this instance, human psychology overshadows Economic Theory IMO.
Right now, we are at Full Employment at the national level (according to basic Econ Theory). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_employment
Generally speaking, those seeking "permanent" employment are not finding it too difficult to do so.
Many of those filling the ranks of the Unemployed and by extension, Temp positions, are mostly from the permanently Unemployed class.
That is, folks who are not regularly seeking permanent Employment.
IOW, people who are interested in a bit of $$$ from a few paychecks.
Their MOTIVATION (and this is the key) for turning a wrench for a few weeks is NOT the same as someone who is trying to pay off a mortgage, car loans, college funds, etc.
Of course, this is a generalization, but it has validity nonetheless.
They will also come from the underemployed. Guys they were laid off from GM at the Saturn plant. Or many other GM, Ford, etc. plants and are now working at Walmart. Or the guy that had a great idea to open his own shop and quit GM and now his shop failed and no longer wants to work at Chili’s as a busboy. Not everyone who is “employed” is in their highest value job.
Employment figures are gross generalizations. In other words Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Well it’s all about the unions. My previous employer had a union shop then relocated to another city and got rid of the union. They were paying mechanics about $15 an hour and they where assembling airplane wings for business jets.... do you want your $70 million dollar jet being assembled by $15 an hour workers? the vette not much of a concern.
In my past experience alot of times the temp workers do better work than the union workers...especially after the new contract and such a large portion of folks at that facility voting against it.
$15/17 an hour is about the right price for any line worker. How long does it take to train someone to do the same thing over & over. We train raw kids to maintain our military hardware & they are doing a lot more than an assembly line worker.
I would be more worried about some pissed off union worker taking his frustration out on my car as it came down the line.
Temp workers have a hard enough time already. A heartbeat from the unemployment line they need to worry that even one mistake can result in their termination--unlike a union worker who will be "protected" in all but the most egregious issues. The one thing a temp worker wants is permanent status and, IMO, will be more diligent in the performance of his duties because of it. And face it, assembly line work is not a "skilled job" like an electrician or any of the trades. You learn the job by watching a video--just like at McDonalds where you get certified as a french fry attendant by watching a video and having that "skill" marked on your chart. There is NO evidence that any of the problems you have seen with your own cars is a result of "temporary" employees. The evident discrimination and prejudice against temporary employees for having the misfortune to be "temporary" is just another barrier for them. They could use our help, not our disdain.
I wonder how many truly understand the decisions that are made each day in the production of automotive parts and assembly. I can assure you that quality decisions are made each day based on risk of failure. There is not a process that does not have the possibility of something going wrong and decisions made as to the risk of accepting or rejecting parts. As far as the temp workers, I have seen great temp workers and terrible temp workers. Automation lines can actually make more mistakes then people if not properly monitored. Today's manufacturing in the automotive world has evolved to the point due to computer design feasibility studies, statistical analysis of processes, continuous improvement efforts, and poka-yoke countermeasures which has reduced the chance of mistakes by employees (temps or regulars). No matter who they hire, the team leaders and management that must control the quality environment attitude in manufacturing of parts and the assembly of the auto, so don't just blame temps if you have a problem.
Last edited by Old buckeye; 11-27-2019 at 12:11 PM.
Funny, said something similar in the mid 1970’s when the plant where our R&D lab was located went on strike for 3 weeks. It was UAW but the product was not auto related. We were locked in for the last 2 weeks and my R&D group (that did not report to that plant) helped them make product we shipped out by rail as trucks or our cars could not get in or out! Union management types came from Detroit and organized the strikers to fill our ~200 foot long driveway with ~1 foot thick of broken bottles!
When auto and steel Unions would strike at the time, I said my why not pay them twice what they are asking and kill the US auto and steel industry quickly instead of bleeding it slowly to death!
Actually I blame the steel and auto management at the time as both caved to demands, raised wages and gave away the store in heath care and pensions! We and our fabricating customers bought steel and prices just kept increasing! The US steel industry essentially folded and foreign made car sales exploded. The heavy fabricating industry (our main customers) also moved off shore.
We bash greedy unions, but at the same time I don't love the thought of the average $16/hr temp having anything to do with my dream car. My 2014 C7 was fine mechanically, but cosmetically the paint was poor and the body panels were assembled very sloppily. The panel gaps were poor and very inconsistent. I hope Chevy is not setting itself up for a repeat by rushing 2020 production out the door. All the C8 mules and captured test fleet appear to have MUCH improved panel fit and gap consistency vs. my C7 and most of the C7s I look at.
Processes are in place to ensure consistent task execution for each station of an assembly line. Only likely difference would be the non-union guy being more productive via his effort to earn a high paying union gig. Also, a non union person won't just stop working if a task surfaces that's beyond the scope of his duties.
I have nothing against union workers, but lets not pretend they somehow are more capable or care more about productivity and quality than non union.
Processes are in place to ensure consistent task execution for each station of an assembly line. Only likely difference would be the non-union guy being more productive via his effort to earn a high paying union gig. Also, a non union person won't just stop working if a task surfaces that's beyond the scope of his duties.
I have nothing against union workers, but lets not pretend they somehow are more capable or care more about productivity and quality than non union.
Oh, by the way, robots painted your C7.
Yeah, well tell those Bots their painting sucks and panel gaps.
I have yet to find a C7 described as you did but FYI
the C8 frame is built by a 15 cents an hour robot.
Does that bother you?
It's much more than 15 cents/hr. It take's millions of dollars to program/configure robots for a new vehicle and hundreds of thousands for each model year adjustment. Then there's the daily maintenance and power consumption.
Third, I believe that most of these temporary workers will be former GM workers with experience who are being hired back. I don’t think any of them will be truly “green” employees who have never worked on an assembly line before.
LOL, 0% chance of that happening just so ya know!!!
D
Doesn’t bother me as long as they get some training first. We pay soldiers and police less than that as a starting wage AND we give them instruments of death. Temp workers aren’t anything I’m worried about in the scheme of things.
I agree, plus I would bet they are happy to have a job that they could demonstrate a high level of competence. Thus getting promoted to a higher pay grade and a full time position.
What a stupid analogy.... robots follow their programming, exactly.
Google "C7 door gaps" and you can read for days and look at images for days. The sharp lines on the C7 were very unforgiving to assembly variance. Usually the lower crease on the door doesn't line up to the fender at all and the fender gap to door is cavernous compared to the rear.
Door sticking out past fender
One example from my old C7... bottom of the gap is 2X as big as the top. Standing back looking at the car the fender/door gap jumped out at you as it was larger than any of the other gaps on the car.
If you start paying attention to C7s, especially the doors, fender, and hoods, you'll see a lot of inconsistency.
Temp workers have a hard enough time already. A heartbeat from the unemployment line they need to worry that even one mistake can result in their termination--unlike a union worker who will be "protected" in all but the most egregious issues. The one thing a temp worker wants is permanent status and, IMO, will be more diligent in the performance of his duties because of it. And face it, assembly line work is not a "skilled job" like an electrician or any of the trades. You learn the job by watching a video--just like at McDonalds where you get certified as a french fry attendant by watching a video and having that "skill" marked on your chart. There is NO evidence that any of the problems you have seen with your own cars is a result of "temporary" employees. The evident discrimination and prejudice against temporary employees for having the misfortune to be "temporary" is just another barrier for them. They could use our help, not our disdain.
11-27-2019, 07:47 AM
