stevebz06

Good to know that my long term memory is not completely shot.

stevebz06

LMP2 is not a subclass of LMP1. It is a separate class of lower performance prototypes and they are awarded trophies just like everybody else. A few races ago, an LMP2 car came fairly close to winning overall. I think it was the team owned by Jackie Chan. Patrick Dempsey also owned a single car LMP2 team for a while, but was finally forced into a Porsche 911 by the cost. These cars can pretty much be bought by anybody who has the money and they are just below the LMP1 cars in performance.

ArmchairArchitect

I meant sub as "subordinate" ie. "lesser". Edited my post for clarity.

ArmchairArchitect

Thanks! I went to the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2010 and have been following it for many years, and I can assure you that this is how most fans of the event see it too.

But most see it as two main races (LMP and GT) rather than 4, because these are the two main categories of cars racing (LMP prototypes, and GT production cars).

stevebz06

OK, But after all this discussion of classes, I'll give myself the task of trying to find out how many classes actually do run at Le Mans. On tv they color code the different classes, but it can still get confusing.

ArmchairArchitect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Hours_of_Le_Mans#Race

"the race is made of two overall classes: prototypes, and Grand Touring cars (similar to sports cars sold to the public). These are further broken down into 2 sub-classes each, constructors' prototypes, privateer prototypes and 2 subclasses of GT cars."

LMP1 and LMP2 for the prototypes
GTEPro (ie. GTLM here at US races) and GTEAm (ie. GTD here at US races) for GT cars

Mcrider

GM isn't interested in racing unless its NASCAR...

stevebz06

OK, it looks like last year there were four classes, LMP1, LMP2, GTE Pro, and GTE Am. There were some other GT classes, but apparently Le Mans is not allowing them to run the 24. One thing that I didn't know about the 2019 race was that a Ford GT was disqualified in post-race inspection when it was found to have an oversized fuel tank, a big no-no.

Foosh

For clarification, it's GTE-Pro and GTE-Am in the Euro-based FIA/WEC series, and GTLM and GTD in the US IMSA series. The specs and rules are pretty much the same for each class in both series.

I don't consider the two GT divisions "sub-classes." The specs and rules for GTE-Pro/GTLM and GT-AM/GTD are very different, and the latter are much closer to street cars than the higher level GTLM/GTE-Pro cars.

WEC and IMSA Weathertech cars occasionally cross-over to the other series for big races like Le Mans, Daytona, and sometimes Sebring. Only very minor changes (e.g. lighting, etc.) are required to do that.

stevebz06

That's not really true. They're not anywhere near as involved as, say, Porsche, but they have a number of programs and employ some really outstanding drivers. You'll see Camaros usually running pretty well in the Weathertek sports car series, which is hugely competitive. Even Cadillac has had a program and a very successful one, at that.

z28lt1

As a point of correction, GTE-AM is not GTD. They are not related at all. GTD is equivalent to GT3 cars that run worldwide but do not run in WEC or Le Mans (well, there are GT3 races ta Le mans, but not "the" race). GTE-Am and GTE-Pro are both GTE/GTLM cars. AM has gentleman driver requirements and cars that are at least a year old (so 2020 WEC/Le Mans can have a C7.R in GTE-AM but not a C8.R).

Foosh

Thanks, I'd forgotten that, having not kept up with much outside of the Pro/LM GT cars. However, I should have known that after the privateer Ford GT, which should have won GTE-AM at Le Mans this year, appeared to have been robbed by a bizarre rule interpretation.

shannanl

Would the Corvette Grand Sports have ran against the Ford GTs if GM hadn't pulled the plug on the project?

Kodiak Bear

Are you referring to the Chaparral 2F which ran in the 1967 LeMans? Two cars entered. Both retired due to mechanical problems. One with the gear box and wing actuating problems and the other with battery and starter problems. The gear box was infamous for failing behind the 427 engine having been originally very successful behind a 327. until the box was ungraded and or the cooling was improved. Hall was famous for not telling what was wrong. He once said that the problem was known but it took the entire racing season in Europe to get the upgraded parts. Once the gear box problem was solved, the car won the last race of the year, the 1967 BOAC 500 1000 Km at Brands Hatch. There's one at the museum in Midland TX

I'm not familiar with a 427 Vett entry..

The Iso Bizzarrini A3/C 0222 powered by a Corvette 5.3 lt V8 purchased directly from GM (- engine number 534 F10075Q) and modified won the over 5lt class in 1965.coming in 9th overall and first in class. The car was third fastest through the speed traps at the end of the Mulsanne straight at 184 mph. Only the two GT40s were faster. That was the year the Ferrari and Ford all managed to destroy themselves. The car was driven by two "gentleman" racers, and allegedly driven to and from the race by Bizzarrini. It's in Bruce Meyer's collection.

LowRyter

fords won Lemans 66, 67, 68, 69. over all.

Corvette#2

I just saw it too. Before seeing the movie, I knew about the history of the Ford GT40 beating Ferrari, but I never knew about how badly Ken Miles got screwed out of his triple crown victory. The scumbag Ford executives make me sick.

stevebz06

No, I don't think that would have happened. The GS program was intended to defeat the Cobra, which had a huge weight advantage over the Corvette.

c64lucky

Being the Light Weight Champion of the World is worthy.. Being Heavy Weight Champion of the world is everyhting....

LowRyter

It wasn't meant to screw Miles. The movie pretty much made up that whole deal with Bebee. The entire team was in on it together and bought in to it. The idea was to make sure that the guys didn't crash each other for the win as well as providing the photo op. It was the Lemans officials that robbed Miles with some after the fact rules. You might notice that now those finish photos are done at every opportunity.

ArmchairArchitect

Well then by that logic, LMP means very little because F1 cars are faster. Two different animals, just as LMP and GT cars are two different animals that happen to be racing at the same time.

It's kind of like the hypothetical of dirtbikes and rally cars racing together in the same event. There are two winners because the machines are wildly different.