Michael A

Which BMW is this? You mean the one that builds the X1 and X2 front wheel drive cars, and has more on the way?

Phil1098

I stand corrected, was referring to the performance car models.

LowRyter

Man, you're a broken record and have no sense of humor.

Anyway you cut it there are other performance standards whether you recognize them or not. And as we've said Lambos and Mclarens are hardly driven, you gotta drive it to perform in it. 3k miles a year and a new set of tires and a tune up doesn't cut it in my definition of performance.

Am I wrong vs the rest of the world, well it looks like Road & Track is on board. I think you're the one that's frustrated. If I had to spend my money, that would be the one. Of course I wouldn't spend my money on any of them right now.

And none of the supercars have stick shifts.

Michael A

No problem, Phil. I'm just jabbing you a bit. I was horrified at the LA Auto Show when I saw a new 2 series sedan, only to find out it, too, was FWD. BMW is losing credibility fast. What happened to the "ultimate driving machine"?

LowRyter

The Mini is front wheel drive. (BMW)

The original Mini won the Monte Carlo Rally. Don't know if the BMW version has won anything but it's a fun drive. I rented a turbo stick and had a great time up and down the N Cali Coast. I wouldn't own one ($$$ repair).

Rapid Fred

I finally got my PCOTY R&T edition and I am "ashamed" to admit I enjoyed it. Big Sam Smith fan (reminds me of the great Peter Egan) who's fingerprints are all over it, and enjoyed Bob Lutz's quick takes also (note he agrees that they picked the wrong one.)

In the end, I get where they came out. They tested 11 performance cars (and yes, by any definition, the Veloster is a highly-developed cheap "hot hatch" which IS a "performance car" in the Hyundai lineup) and they enjoyed it the most. They were very clear in their explanations. They referenced other very good "hot hatches' like the Golf R and Civic Type-R and found the Veloster to be better. So, it's the "Performance Car of the Year." So get over it! I did...despite the fact that I would never own one of those remarkably homely things (now in the interest of full disclosure my wife had a Mini Cooper S and we both loved it so perhaps we're more open to the joys of hot hatches than the typical Forum denizen.)

Oh, and referring to the MT vs. DCT thread which repeats itself every few pages -- I think it's pretty clear R&T strongly sides with those lamenting the lack of a manual option. We'll never know, but reading between the lines I'd bet a manual C8 would have won this year. As C7's won twice from 2014-2019, it's obvious that the R&T crowd loves America's sportscar -- but they love 3 pedals as well...

BEAR-AvHistory

Yeah, Bob Lutz thought the C8 should finish no worse than 2nd. Admitted he bought one. His other 1-2 choice was the 911. He had a pretty good assessment of each of the cars tested.

meadowz06

Road and Track are a JOKE. THE C8 is a grand slam home run.

Edwardz

I wonder if any corvette owners/drivers troll the Hyundai forums like the Hyundai owners troll the Corvette forums???

Rapid Fred

They never said it wasn’t. Did you read the issue?

AzDave47

... other than they don't know how to drive an automated manual. Just imagine how good they are with a true manual.

On the "Average Driver Car of 2020" winner, how does the manual Hundai get from gear to gear? The picture in the mag. shows neutral (N) below the 2-4-6 gear locations on the shift ****! Their average driver isn't going to do all the shifts without the clutch for sure. .... and then they show a picture of it with all the bling lights on the hood and windshield. That shows what market R&T is going after, but it will be a big fail as that market won't read old guys' print magazines.

At least Bob Lutz and Ross Bentley appreciated the C8.

This choice almost made me regret that I have been a subscriber for 50+ years. I'd write in but they wouldn't print what I have to say.

sly1

The many posters on this thread who expressed their displeasure with R&T's selection of their 2020 PCOTY have just as much right to their opinion as do the writers at R&T. So there's no need for R&T critics to "get over it." Bottom line is that IMO the vast majority of sports car enthusiasts would think that R&T's selection for their 2020 PCOTY was just plain stupid, unless of course R&T's intent was to select a car that would generate the most controversy. Thereby increasing the interest in their magazine.

Rapid Fred

^^^^ up 2

the “N” is for the model designation — Veloster N...

Rapid Fred

Of course critics have the right to be critical. I just expected a terrible issue based on the hyperventilated angst pouring forth in this thread, and instead found a very enjoyable examination of 11 cool cars and a final opinion which which I doubt I’d agree (if I could drive them all) but which made some sense. That is:
(1) it’s a “performance car” and
(2) the majority of them enjoyed it the most.

Again, I doubt I’d have voted the same way, but having owned and loved a few “hot hatches” over the decades I completely get it. Quick example. Way back in the day I owned a Scirocco. I loved that thing. Light, tossable, a complete grin producer. To this day, if you gave me the choice of that car or the contemporary C3, I’d choose the Scirocco all day long. So shoot me.

JerriVette

The premise of road and track PCOtY is about the new vehicles and how they revamp their price market segment compared to what exists already.

not how each vehicle compares to others in each vehicle of the annual test.

simply put R & T thought the veloctor N leapfrogged the VW GTi.

Supermassive

All of this conjecture is just because R&T have no apparent standard in place for PCOTY because year to year the metrics change and what matters to the judges is completely arbitrary. The sad thing is that the Veloster has been compared to the Civic Type R and was found lacking...yet somehow we are to believe that in a performance car comparison a FWD Hyundai is somehow better to drive than the rest of the lineup? I could have gotten behind the Miata...but the FWD car is just too hard to wrap my head around. I've driven the Civic Type R (curiosity only) and I could understand the appeal for kids...I couldn't get the fact that I could buy a Camaro SS 1LE for the same price range and that car is a real treat to drive. At no point did I feel like the Civic was a more fun car...or even near as engaging as a RWD car at 7/10ths.
Honestly, I have nothing against Hyundai, but they just aren't even on the same level as any of the other brands when it comes to what I would consider for "driving pleasure".

So R&T is just left holding the bag that they **** in. Every other car in PCOTY this year would make more sense to choose...the thing that blew my mind is how they somehow chose the N over the 911...I mean every review of the 4S has said that this is the best non GT 911 ever...yet somehow it is overshadowed by a "hot-hatch"...nope can't believe that one.

sly1

I agree. Many decades ago I owned a Triumph GT6 which had about 95HP and a curb weight of around 1900 lbs. There was no car that I owned since that gave me more pleasure to drive. I lived and worked in the country back then, and I was constantly rowing through the gears as I climbed the hills. The car was a blast to drive. But let's say that I compared my Triumph to a Porsche 911, a C2 327 CI Vette with 350 HP, a Ferrari 365, and a Jaguar XKE. The only car on my list which I never drove was the Ferrari, but based on what I've read it was an outstanding performance car. Although I loved the Triumph it would be ludicrous for me to have crowned it as the best performance car of the group because I enjoyed driving it. A strong case could be made for the Porsche, the Vette, the Ferrari, and the Jag, but not my Triumph. As a matter of fact my friends would have questioned my sanity if I said that my Triumph was the best performance car in that group of cars. Much like many of us are questioning the sanity of R&T.

4thC4at60

Joel and Joelle AverrageAmerican cannot afford a Corvette, Porsche, ______________.... what they can, and do, is buy cars that are affordable to them. Many of them buy cars with a bit more performance than the other folks on the block such as the Subaru WRX STI and others of that ilk.... I'm amazed at the amount of butt-hurt within the Corvette community because R&T didn't come out with an issue with neon lights and a marching band of praise for the Vette....

People climb on and denigrate car magazines' drivers - when, in reality, those folks get more seat time in more different cars than many readers here will get in a lifetime.... most of them are pretty decent amateur - and in some cases - professional - drivers.

I'm fortunate, I've been able to drive decent cars most of my life: P-cars, Vettes, BMWs, etc., and - yes, a Ferrari - not everyone can do that, particularly with a working-stiff's salary....

I really don't understand why all the rancor because someone didn't stuff YOUR beloved Corvette onto a diamond-studded gold-plated pedestal......

I've loved cars all my life - I'm 78 - all cars, but, yes, some more than others - I waited 60 years for a Ferrari.....
....to those of you who who have cherry-red a$$es over the R&T article - get over yourselves.

AzDave47

Yes, I figured that out on my own, but it comes across as I indicated, Neutral, in the wrong place in the shift pattern on the shift ****, seem right for Average Driver's Car of 2020.

OlyC6

Side note... I suspect with the end of the print version of Autoweek -- due to the acquisition by Hearst who now owns C&D, R&T, and Autoweek.com -- there will be some significant changes coming down the road... as those that put out "publications" aimed at the motoring community strive to be relevant to the new demographic that will be the next-gen of car buyers.