Road and Track forever discredited itself
11-18-2019, 10:31 PM
#361
11-18-2019, 10:36 PM
#362
Awesome car.... yes! Newer...... yes! All new or heavily revised this year..... no! It It was not eligible for PCOTY
11-19-2019, 12:27 AM
#364
Melting Slicks
No kidding. They stopped printing reader comments/letters... and then started reviewing trucks and trucks and more trucks... they have lost their vision... and as a long-time subscriber, I'm going to cancel at the end of current term...
I wonder if Peter Egan is livid at what R&T has become...
I wonder if Peter Egan is livid at what R&T has become...
Funny how that all works in reverse.
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ArmchairArchitect (11-19-2019)
11-19-2019, 09:32 AM
#365
The magazine has gone downhill for sure and it really sucks now. More of lifestyle magazine. On the other hand, cars are sorta boring now. They are really good and perform well but boring. Back in the '60s cars were exciting but performance was marginal.
Funny how that all works in reverse.
Funny how that all works in reverse.
At least one car magazine not full of crap!
11-19-2019, 01:01 PM
#366
The lap-time setting Civic Type R has cheater tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2) as well as the rear seat removed and roll-cage welded in for additional structural rigidity.
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ArmchairArchitect (11-19-2019)
11-19-2019, 01:28 PM
#367
The civics record has been outdone but regardless with street tires and cage it was still a hell of a lap!
11-19-2019, 01:40 PM
#368
Just merely pointing out that 'Ring laps need to be taken with a grain of salt and compared for the right reasons. Just like all the magazine reviews, shoot-outs, YouTube videos...etc. It's all too easy to just bench race and spew off numbers.
11-19-2019, 03:01 PM
#369
There's no question the Civic Type R is a fantastic driver's car. If it weren't for the refunkulous ADMs most dealership are throwing on the car, making a $30K sticker well in excess of $50K (nearly the same price and cost as a base C7 Stingray) I would take a very serious look at it.
Just merely pointing out that 'Ring laps need to be taken with a grain of salt and compared for the right reasons. Just like all the magazine reviews, shoot-outs, YouTube videos...etc. It's all too easy to just bench race and spew off numbers.
Just merely pointing out that 'Ring laps need to be taken with a grain of salt and compared for the right reasons. Just like all the magazine reviews, shoot-outs, YouTube videos...etc. It's all too easy to just bench race and spew off numbers.
11-19-2019, 03:18 PM
#370
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There's no question the Civic Type R is a fantastic driver's car. If it weren't for the refunkulous ADMs most dealership are throwing on the car, making a $30K sticker well in excess of $50K (nearly the same price and cost as a base C7 Stingray) I would take a very serious look at it..
11-19-2019, 07:55 PM
#372
I don’t know. A friend and I stopped by a local Honda store because they were advertising a CTR at MSRP. Turns out the car had sat on the lot for nearly a year already and there’s a $15,000 upsale on a variety of bogus “add-ons” they refuse to remove (garbage like Lo-jack and simonizing and ‘GAP insurance’ on a non-finances car) that pushed the car to almost $50k before taxes and license. Not to mention the variety of “delivery fees” and “doc fees” that were significantly higher than normal.
There were no “market adjustment” but the $2,000 for “interior treatment” was a sure sign that they still think they can sell the CTR at well above MSRP. My buddy has pretty much given up on the CTR. I might pick one up used in 3-5 years when my kid is ready to drive. I certainly don’t want her to learn a stick shift in either my BMW Z4 M Coupe or the Corvette, that’s for sure.
There were no “market adjustment” but the $2,000 for “interior treatment” was a sure sign that they still think they can sell the CTR at well above MSRP. My buddy has pretty much given up on the CTR. I might pick one up used in 3-5 years when my kid is ready to drive. I certainly don’t want her to learn a stick shift in either my BMW Z4 M Coupe or the Corvette, that’s for sure.
11-19-2019, 08:57 PM
#373
Melting Slicks
The irony here is nearly unfathomable...
First off... It makes me laugh that there's a bunch of old dudes who never track their corvettes and never will, passing judgement on a a car that does the track well for $30k. Especially when the Corvette has ALWAYS been the "we can be just as fast as the euro cars but cheaper" sports car in America.Just because a car isn't expensive doesn't mean it's bad, if you own a corvette you already know this.
Second... I've been lucky enough to hustle a Veloster N on back roads nearby. The car is all there, it's capable and fun and is easy to push - very communicative feel, It's 80% as fun as the all-motor 575whp '17 Camaro SS 1LE I just sold, and the Veloster was 2/3 the price (before any mods to the Camaro, a little less than 1/2 the price after). It's my favorite new car under $35k (maybe under $40k
First off... It makes me laugh that there's a bunch of old dudes who never track their corvettes and never will, passing judgement on a a car that does the track well for $30k. Especially when the Corvette has ALWAYS been the "we can be just as fast as the euro cars but cheaper" sports car in America.Just because a car isn't expensive doesn't mean it's bad, if you own a corvette you already know this.
Second... I've been lucky enough to hustle a Veloster N on back roads nearby. The car is all there, it's capable and fun and is easy to push - very communicative feel, It's 80% as fun as the all-motor 575whp '17 Camaro SS 1LE I just sold, and the Veloster was 2/3 the price (before any mods to the Camaro, a little less than 1/2 the price after). It's my favorite new car under $35k (maybe under $40k
11-19-2019, 10:40 PM
#374
Road and Track is my favorite and although surprised they picked the Hyundai over a Lotus or Miata the rest of the article is well written and makes the most salient point in the final ordering: today's sports cars are not built for the enthusiast, they are built for comfort and show. Case in point, the Corvette is heavier than minivans and comes only in automatic, I think it deserves to lose.
So bravo Road and Track.
So bravo Road and Track.
11-19-2019, 10:58 PM
#375
Melting Slicks
There's no question the Civic Type R is a fantastic driver's car. If it weren't for the refunkulous ADMs most dealership are throwing on the car, making a $30K sticker well in excess of $50K (nearly the same price and cost as a base C7 Stingray) I would take a very serious look at it.
Just merely pointing out that 'Ring laps need to be taken with a grain of salt and compared for the right reasons. Just like all the magazine reviews, shoot-outs, YouTube videos...etc. It's all too easy to just bench race and spew off numbers.
Just merely pointing out that 'Ring laps need to be taken with a grain of salt and compared for the right reasons. Just like all the magazine reviews, shoot-outs, YouTube videos...etc. It's all too easy to just bench race and spew off numbers.
But I wouldn't pay $40k for any car, 'vette included.
11-19-2019, 11:01 PM
#376
Melting Slicks
The irony here is nearly unfathomable...
First off... It makes me laugh that there's a bunch of old dudes who never track their corvettes and never will, passing judgement on a a car that does the track well for $30k. Especially when the Corvette has ALWAYS been the "we can be just as fast as the euro cars but cheaper" sports car in America.Just because a car isn't expensive doesn't mean it's bad, if you own a corvette you already know this.
Second... I've been lucky enough to hustle a Veloster N on back roads nearby. The car is all there, it's capable and fun and is easy to push - very communicative feel, It's 80% as fun as the all-motor 575whp '17 Camaro SS 1LE I just sold, and the Veloster was 2/3 the price (before any mods to the Camaro, a little less than 1/2 the price after). It's my favorite new car under $35k (maybe under $40k
First off... It makes me laugh that there's a bunch of old dudes who never track their corvettes and never will, passing judgement on a a car that does the track well for $30k. Especially when the Corvette has ALWAYS been the "we can be just as fast as the euro cars but cheaper" sports car in America.Just because a car isn't expensive doesn't mean it's bad, if you own a corvette you already know this.
Second... I've been lucky enough to hustle a Veloster N on back roads nearby. The car is all there, it's capable and fun and is easy to push - very communicative feel, It's 80% as fun as the all-motor 575whp '17 Camaro SS 1LE I just sold, and the Veloster was 2/3 the price (before any mods to the Camaro, a little less than 1/2 the price after). It's my favorite new car under $35k (maybe under $40k
11-19-2019, 11:21 PM
#377
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The irony here is nearly unfathomable...
First off... It makes me laugh that there's a bunch of old dudes who never track their corvettes and never will, passing judgement on a a car that does the track well for $30k. Especially when the Corvette has ALWAYS been the "we can be just as fast as the euro cars but cheaper" sports car in America.Just because a car isn't expensive doesn't mean it's bad, if you own a corvette you already know this.
Second... I've been lucky enough to hustle a Veloster N on back roads nearby. The car is all there, it's capable and fun and is easy to push - very communicative feel, It's 80% as fun as the all-motor 575whp '17 Camaro SS 1LE I just sold, and the Veloster was 2/3 the price (before any mods to the Camaro, a little less than 1/2 the price after). It's my favorite new car under $35k (maybe under $40k
First off... It makes me laugh that there's a bunch of old dudes who never track their corvettes and never will, passing judgement on a a car that does the track well for $30k. Especially when the Corvette has ALWAYS been the "we can be just as fast as the euro cars but cheaper" sports car in America.Just because a car isn't expensive doesn't mean it's bad, if you own a corvette you already know this.
Second... I've been lucky enough to hustle a Veloster N on back roads nearby. The car is all there, it's capable and fun and is easy to push - very communicative feel, It's 80% as fun as the all-motor 575whp '17 Camaro SS 1LE I just sold, and the Veloster was 2/3 the price (before any mods to the Camaro, a little less than 1/2 the price after). It's my favorite new car under $35k (maybe under $40k
11-19-2019, 11:36 PM
#378
Melting Slicks
It was a comparison (supposedly). It's great that you've driven a Hyundai, have you also driven a 2020 911S or any of the others? If lap times didn't matter why did they do them? Why post them and show on a minute 30 track, the Hyundai was 10 seconds a lap slower? It's a well balanced and fun car, great. Is it a better performance car than the other ten in the comparison? I'm not going to talk about the C8, it's new and no one on here really knows about how it drives first hand, Porsche has been doing this with, we'll call a fair amount of success for only 50+ years. Other companies pay to have Porsches Weissach to develop cars. So after all this, we are supposed to believe a Hyundai is a better performance car than the best 911S Porsche has ever made? That is stretching my credulity. We haven't even looked at the others, Lotus, BMW, Nissan, Lamborghini. So given all 11 cars lined up, you would HONESTLY choose the Hyundai to drive away with? Operate word being honestly.
11-19-2019, 11:41 PM
#379
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11-20-2019, 02:39 PM
#380
Burning Brakes
What?? Rice & Truck Magazine??
Last month's R&T Truck volume did it for me.
Yep, love my truck, BUT, there are magazines aplenty just for this venue.
Advertising dollars equals performance IMHO.
Yep, love my truck, BUT, there are magazines aplenty just for this venue.
Advertising dollars equals performance IMHO.