What would match the significance of the C8?
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tail_lights (09-09-2019)
#64
Beyond Emissions
The math gets trickier, though, when you include other forms of environmental damage. Electric cars need to be light, which means they include a lot of high-performing metals. The lithium in the batteries, for example, is super light and conductive—that’s how you get a lot of energy without adding a lot of weight. Other, rare metals are sprinkled throughout the car, mostly in the magnets that are in everything from the headlights to the on-board electronics.But those rare metals come from somewhere—often, from environmentally destructive mines. It’s not just Tesla, of course. All electric vehicles rely on parts with similar environmental issues. Even solar panels depend on rare metals that have to be dug out of the earth and processed in less-than-green ways, says David Abraham, author of the book The Elements of Power. (Disclosure: I helped edit some chapters of the book.)
We can’t look at mining as an over-there thing and at Tesla as an over-here thing. They’re intricately linked.
David AbrahamRare metals only exist in tiny quantities and inconvenient places—so you have to move a lot of earth to get just a little bit. In the Jiangxi rare earth mine in China, Abraham writes, workers dig eight-foot holes and pour ammonium sulfate into them to dissolve the sandy clay. Then they haul out bags of muck and pass it through several acid baths; what’s left is baked in a kiln, leaving behind the rare earths required by everything from our phones to our Teslas.
At this mine, those rare earths amounted to 0.2 percent of what gets pulled out of the ground. The other 99.8 percent—now contaminated with toxic chemicals—is dumped back into the environment. That damage is difficult to quantify, just like the impact of oil drilling.
And, as in every stage of the process, mining has hidden emissions. Jiangxi has it relatively easy because it’s digging up clay, but many mines rely on rock-crushing equipment with astronomical energy bills, as well as coal-fired furnaces for the final baking stages. Those spew a lot of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere in the process of refining a material destined for your zero-emissions car. In fact, manufacturing an electric vehicle generates more carbon emissions than building a conventional car, mostly because of its battery, the Union of Concerned Scientists has found.
“We’re shifting pollution, and in the process we’re hoping that it doesn’t have the environmental impact,” says Abraham. He believes that when you add all the environmental impacts, they still come out in favor of electric vehicles.
Overall, “the greenhouse-gas-emissions footprint of electric vehicles can be pretty high on the front end, as they’re being built,” says McConnell. “And so you need to get a lot of benefits on the other side, when you use it.” And after you're done using it.
Last edited by colossians323; 09-07-2019 at 09:25 PM.
#65
Banned Scam/Spammer
I'm only referring to the sportscar/supercar market here, but there are plenty of other interesting automotive milestones.
Whether a well-heeled individual would not by a Corvette is irrelevant. That same Corvette can now eat her favorite hypercars lunch, or at least share it. You cant name one. 'Cause there is none.
No, I dont work for GM.....but when I was born, I was brought home in a Chevy (Nova coupe 250) which was also my first car.....maybe i was infected at that time. C8 will be my first new Chevy.
I agree, Lexus LS400 was an awesome game changer car for sure.
Whether a well-heeled individual would not by a Corvette is irrelevant. That same Corvette can now eat her favorite hypercars lunch, or at least share it. You cant name one. 'Cause there is none.
No, I dont work for GM.....but when I was born, I was brought home in a Chevy (Nova coupe 250) which was also my first car.....maybe i was infected at that time. C8 will be my first new Chevy.
I agree, Lexus LS400 was an awesome game changer car for sure.
Last edited by Sub Driver; 09-07-2019 at 09:27 PM.
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golddog (09-07-2019)
#66
Dude...equal to what? The Prius gets better gas mileage, Mercedes ride better, Dodge pickups carry more weight , and an F150 tows more. The visceral excitement of driving some of the other world class cars you mention is beyond compare if you ever get the chance. The C8 will be another great car in a world where there are many!
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4thC4at60 (09-08-2019)
#67
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jun 2004
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St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10,'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
Sub Driver and Jallen4, he's hung up on mid engine cars only.
Porsche Cayman/Boxster or Lotus Evora 400 for our manual transmission crowd.
Porsche Cayman/Boxster or Lotus Evora 400 for our manual transmission crowd.
Last edited by golddog; 09-07-2019 at 09:30 PM.
#69
Race Director
The only thing monumental about Tesla is how it burns through govt taxpayer cash. Just about everything Musk has touched has been subsidized by the govt to a massive extent. Imagine if the feds gave us $7500 for buying a Corvette? Plus subsidies for rocket program(that under-delivers), state subsidies for a solar plant, for their charging stations in many states, and plenty of other crap.
Musk spends > $1 MILLION per year on DC lobbyists. Looks like a good ROI for them. For the rest of us? Not so much.
Musk spends > $1 MILLION per year on DC lobbyists. Looks like a good ROI for them. For the rest of us? Not so much.
Last edited by poorwhiteguy; 09-07-2019 at 09:37 PM.
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FringbirdAloha (09-08-2019)
#70
Safety Car
So we're keeping track here. The 8 year thing was complete hogwash.
The mining thing is too. You realize 95% of lithium isnt mined. The rare metals theyre referring to in magnets, headlights, boards are also present in ICE cars they just happen to conveniently overlook that.
I definitely think we should look to minimize the impact when it comes to new technology but make sure you look deeper into these bogus claims that some oil funded research shows of ev cars making a worse impact. Its debunked
Last edited by bhvrdr; 09-07-2019 at 10:03 PM.
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tail_lights (09-09-2019)
#72
Instructor
Delorean dmc-12 was probably similar, reasonably priced mid-engine car with gull-wing doors and all stainless body. Wasn't executed well otherwise it would have been more successful.
#73
IMHO, the change from FE to ME for the iconic (and even legendary) Corvette is an automotive event that may not be topped in my lifetime (I am 47). About the only similar magnitude possibilities would be if Lamborghini or Ferrari decided to release 'affordable' models that would compete in the Corvette market (from a cost perspective).
What else could be so monumental? What previous car release was AS monumental?
What else could be so monumental? What previous car release was AS monumental?
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Kainedogg (09-08-2019)
#74
The only thing monumental about Tesla is how it burns through govt taxpayer cash. Just about everything Musk has touched has been subsidized by the govt to a massive extent. Imagine if the feds gave us $7500 for buying a Corvette? Plus subsidies for rocket program(that under-delivers), state subsidies for a solar plant, for their charging stations in many states, and plenty of other crap.
Musk spends > $1 MILLION per year on DC lobbyists. Looks like a good ROI for them. For the rest of us? Not so much.
Musk spends > $1 MILLION per year on DC lobbyists. Looks like a good ROI for them. For the rest of us? Not so much.
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tail_lights (09-09-2019)
#77
Porsche becoming primarily an SUV company was much more monumental. The Cayenne ushered a complete new era or premium/sports European manufacturers, including Lamborghini and Bentley jumping into the SUV fray.
Tesla showing that their first in-house designed EV (Model S) had the highest safety rating, the fastest acceleration, the most automation, and the most interior to exterior room ratio, of the entire industry was monumental. It showed that a startup company with no prior automotive experience could best all the legacy automakers on many parameters.
Jeep launching a 4 door, long wheelbase wrangler, creating the go anywhere, convertible SUV with family practicality was much more monumental.
In the end, the C8 is simply a refinement of the Corvette. From mid-front to mid-rear engine placement, at a starting price a bit higher than the Porsche Cayman's starting price and a bit less storage room than the Cayman, but better performance. Hardly monumental.
Tesla showing that their first in-house designed EV (Model S) had the highest safety rating, the fastest acceleration, the most automation, and the most interior to exterior room ratio, of the entire industry was monumental. It showed that a startup company with no prior automotive experience could best all the legacy automakers on many parameters.
Jeep launching a 4 door, long wheelbase wrangler, creating the go anywhere, convertible SUV with family practicality was much more monumental.
In the end, the C8 is simply a refinement of the Corvette. From mid-front to mid-rear engine placement, at a starting price a bit higher than the Porsche Cayman's starting price and a bit less storage room than the Cayman, but better performance. Hardly monumental.
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golddog (09-08-2019),
tail_lights (09-09-2019)
#78
I guess I see the Corvette brand as iconic. I think it would be like Porsche taking its 911 and making it front engine. There arent even that many comparable iconic sports cars that could do something so significant. If you dont see it already, certainly nothing I can say will make you understand. I think you arent getting carried away enough!
Man, if you cant get 'carried away' on a Corvette forum about the most significant development in its 50+ year history, than where can you? Tough crowd.
Man, if you cant get 'carried away' on a Corvette forum about the most significant development in its 50+ year history, than where can you? Tough crowd.
This forum is totally carried away with the C8, but you're talking about a handful expressing that enthusiasm here. It's not a big story among the general public, although the reveal did create a lot of general public buzz in the first 24 hours or so.
The Corvette name is iconic, but a lot of its name recognition both inside and outside of the US is negative with not very flattering stereotypes about Corvette owners, and the car in general.
How is his story monumental? They havent even earned a profit, and have been operating off subsidies?
Did you know to produce one battery for the tesla pollutes 8 years worth of gasoline driving a car, not to mention the damage done to the earth in mining the rare earth minerals.
I'll stick to my fossil fueled rocket that doesn't have to wait for a charge or damage the earth as monumentally as tesla has done
Did you know to produce one battery for the tesla pollutes 8 years worth of gasoline driving a car, not to mention the damage done to the earth in mining the rare earth minerals.
I'll stick to my fossil fueled rocket that doesn't have to wait for a charge or damage the earth as monumentally as tesla has done
I have no interest in owning a Tesla either, but I can easily recognize how dramatic their impact has been. It amazes me how many of my friends, colleagues, and acquaintances who know absolutely nothing about, and have never really cared about cars lust after them. When a vehicle wakes up people who aren't "car guys," that's monumental and what Tesla and the SUV revolution have accomplished. These developments have fundamentally changed the entire industry.
Last edited by Foosh; 09-08-2019 at 11:04 AM.
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#79
Banned Scam/Spammer
#80
Le Mans Master
Porsche becoming primarily an SUV company was much more monumental. The Cayenne ushered a complete new era or premium/sports European manufacturers, including Lamborghini and Bentley jumping into the SUV fray.
Tesla showing that their first in-house designed EV (Model S) had the highest safety rating, the fastest acceleration, the most automation, and the most interior to exterior room ratio, of the entire industry was monumental. It showed that a startup company with no prior automotive experience could best all the legacy automakers on many parameters.
Jeep launching a 4 door, long wheelbase wrangler, creating the go anywhere, convertible SUV with family practicality was much more monumental.
In the end, the C8 is simply a refinement of the Corvette. From mid-front to mid-rear engine placement, at a starting price a bit higher than the Porsche Cayman's starting price and a bit less storage room than the Cayman, but better performance. Hardly monumental.
Tesla showing that their first in-house designed EV (Model S) had the highest safety rating, the fastest acceleration, the most automation, and the most interior to exterior room ratio, of the entire industry was monumental. It showed that a startup company with no prior automotive experience could best all the legacy automakers on many parameters.
Jeep launching a 4 door, long wheelbase wrangler, creating the go anywhere, convertible SUV with family practicality was much more monumental.
In the end, the C8 is simply a refinement of the Corvette. From mid-front to mid-rear engine placement, at a starting price a bit higher than the Porsche Cayman's starting price and a bit less storage room than the Cayman, but better performance. Hardly monumental.
IMHO, the change from FE to ME for the iconic (and even legendary) Corvette is an automotive event that may not be topped in my lifetime (I am 47). About the only similar magnitude possibilities would be if Lamborghini or Ferrari decided to release 'affordable' models that would compete in the Corvette market (from a cost perspective).
What else could be so monumental? What previous car release was AS monumental?
What else could be so monumental? What previous car release was AS monumental?