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C8 fascia to fender alignment issue C8 on tour in NJ
Well. I went to the sh** show which was gm displaying one C8 at the largest corvette dealer in the world today... spent about 2 minutes up close near the car and before I was able to take in the tiny bit of the car one could see, the fascia sticking up was catching the sun lovely.
Idk after the 6 years of issues they've had with the corners of the C7s fascias meet with the fender above or next to the headlight they wouldn't find a better way to do this?
This is a preproduction unit I was reminded by a couple of gm employees which.... is laughable. That car should be perfect. More perfect than the rush job in the line that's for sure.
The interior color is a daring one because the driver's bolster looked filthy already as did many other surfaces a darker color you would never notice.. Pretty but It would drive me nuts.
The hatch panel at the top of the glass wasn't even close the orange of the rest of the car nor was the spoiler. My guess is that the panel housing the rearview mirror camera and the spoilers (body color) are painted by the vendors like the exposed carbon weave hoods and roofs now. Almost none match. Some are so off it's terrible.
I got some good video of the whole car from outside yesterday when they were setting up before a kerbeck guy blocked my view and then they covered it up. Mind you this was after every employee lot attendant their kids etc etc took tons of video and pictures of the car lol. Whatever.
Point is, I wondered how they were going to pull this off for so little and I got my up close and personal views of where and how. I will eventually end up with one. Itll be inevitable. But I wish there was more attention to detail on such things that are right in your face.
So much more to say but I'll take a break. Wait until you hear what one of the reps had the nerve to tell me about "us".
Instead of roping the car off in two lines one for the driver side one for the passenger side it was a complete cluster.
What a mess. The car looked like it was surrounded by the walking dead. A good percentage of these people were elderly males acting like north jersey or NYC morons and saying the dumbest things in front of woman and children it was just a complete joke.
I hope tomorrow they straighten this out. Why the car wasn't roped off is beyond me. You wait in line and then you go.
There wasn't Thousands of people trying to look at the car. There was maybe 60 to 75 at a time. And I'm sure they would have gladly waited in a line to do so. I had to remind several people who refused to budge that others were trying to get a look.. it worked as they were shamed into moving after a good few minutes (noticeable as I moved around the car they stayed stationary as the civilized humans did the same as I did....kept a slow steady move....many just gave up. So inconsiderate but I guess to be expected given that demographic I described.
I moved to nj from nyc couple decades ago if I ever acted like these people I am truly...truly.. sorry. My god.
Complaining because the quarter panel is 2 millimeters above the panel next to it is a bit ridiculous. Its the same as the complaining over "plasticy" interior or orange peel. Its a $60k car AFTER dealers impute their margin. The fact any car company can produce all of these new, unique parts of varying finishes and materials, assemble them together this well, and get this result on a pre-production unit is impressive. How could anyone think otherwise? Has anyone in here ever manufactured something? Any idea what molds cost for some of these parts? Any idea what goes into having parts this large stamped and painted? To get this result in this price range is fantastic, I think.
How sad that some people are so ****, that they can't appreciate the car for what is does have to offer.
You never owned a C7... they had some really silly quirks that I had hoped they'd fix with the C8. The bumper snaps on and you can't align it and then tighten down the nuts like a C5. It just snaps in and the fit is the fit.
Yeah that camera panel has to be supplier painted part... clearly off. Baffles me that they talk about so much attention to detail and then send that out to the public.
Complaining because the quarter panel is 2 millimeters above the panel next to it is a bit ridiculous. Its the same as the complaining over "plasticy" interior or orange peel. Its a $60k car AFTER dealers impute their margin. The fact any car company can produce all of these new, unique parts of varying finishes and materials, assemble them together this well, and get this result on a pre-production unit is impressive. How could anyone think otherwise? Has anyone in here ever manufactured something? Any idea what molds cost for some of these parts? Any idea what goes into having parts this large stamped and painted? To get this result in this price range is fantastic, I think.
Last edited by WoozyWagtail; 07-26-2019 at 03:12 PM.
Sounds like normal production of the previous models..:
Exactly... my C7 was bad in this area
Originally Posted by WoozyWagtail
Seems like nitpicking just to nitpick.
Complaining because the quarter panel is 2 millimeters above the panel next to it is a bit ridiculous. Its the same as the complaining over "plasticy" interior or orange peel. Its a $60k car AFTER dealers impute their margin. The fact any car company can produce all of these new, unique parts of varying finishes and materials, assemble them together this well, and get this result on a pre-production unit is impressive. How could anyone think otherwise?
And this is why GM will never improve... because of the "Well look at the cost". My C5 didn't do this.... it had bolted joints. The C7 they wanted to make it faster/easier to assemble so the bumper has tabs with holes that snap into a bracket... if the bracket isn't bolted to the fender just right then the bumper is off. You cannot adjust it after the bumper is snapped in place and getting the bumper loose required prying on it and every time you take it apart the plastic slots loosen up.
Yeah that camera panel has to be supplier painted part... clearly off. Baffles me that they talk about so much attention to detail and then send that out to the public.
I am NOT making excuses for GM. Nor am I defending them. These cars should have been perfect to show off to prospective buyers....
But you must realize that these are pre-production units that do not even coordinate with the configurer thats on line or how the options line up.
Some I have spotted on line have black stingray emblems but are not Z51.
No excuses, but some of the issues might be because of pre-production issues.
And this is why GM will never improve... because of the "Well look at the cost". My C5 didn't do this.... it had bolted joints. The C7 they wanted to make it faster/easier to assemble so the bumper has tabs with holes that snap into a bracket... if the bracket isn't bolted to the fender just right then the bumper is off. You cannot adjust it after the bumper is snapped in place and getting the bumper loose required prying on it and every time you take it apart the plastic slots loosen up.
There are so many reasons why bolted joints were a thing on the C5 and not more modern cars.
The c5 is pretty barren when it comes to tech and features, which makes sense due to the price when it was new and the year it was released. Even in its day it was barren except for the HUD. Modern cars now have so many things they MUST have to be sold, and so many more things they must have to even be competitive.
Consider all the safety tech and various items that must be included on cars these days. That stuff is not cheap, and probably isnt high margin. All the little things that people must have or they wont even consider buying the car like infotainment, rear cameras, smartphone connectivity, the thousands of hours of R&D that goes into the software in the car, the ECU, TCM, and everything running the thing. This is all drastically different than the C5, its an extra cost for the manufacturer and the consumer, and the margins probably arent high on any of these things.
You've got to implement all this while still moving forward with a new engine, new transmission, entirely new vehicle platform, all while still improving on the old! The car cant be as good as the C7, it has to be better. Thats a lot to do within a reasonable price range. This is all happening while competitors are having a "race to the bottom" with their margins and pricing. Balancing all of this, remaining competitive, giving people something to buy, and still having the car sell at an incredible price AFTER dealer markup is something else. Its crazy.
When you've got costs raising somewhere sometimes you've got to cut them elsewhere. You've also got to consider volume. If moving away from bolting on the bumpers and having to align them saves a few seconds or a minute per car, that adds up significantly over a production run and can drastically impact costs.
The fact of the matter is that the corvette has always been budget performance, and when you keep that in mind and look at what you're getting, it makes sense why things like this exist on this platform. You have to make sacrifices in some areas to improve in others. Most people arent fussy over a 2mm panel misalignment, so it makes sense for them to make that sacrifice. Theres always going to be people who will go over the paint with a depth gauge and complain because its 5 microns too thin in one area, but you can never appeal to people like that, so why try? Moreso, why spend money to try? Theres a point of diminishing returns here that Chevrolet has to worry about but Ferrari and similar marques dont really have to.
Last edited by WoozyWagtail; 07-26-2019 at 03:29 PM.
I am NOT making excuses for GM. Nor am I defending them. These cars should have been perfect to show off to prospective buyers....
But you must realize that these are pre-production units that do not even coordinate with the configurer thats on line or how the options line up.
Some I have spotted on line have black stingray emblems but are not Z51.
No excuses, but some of the issues might be because of pre-production issues.
The front bumper really gets me... after seeing C7s with pointed up bumper corners for years you'd think they'd fix it. GM seems to do zero continuous improvement. Every dude who yanked off his fascia to do a Z06 grill on a C7 ended up with a bumper than never went back on the exact same way the 2nd time.
It's a horrendous design for service and panel alignment. It's only good for production easy because it snaps together and requires no more hardware . The C5 was great as it had stud plats with nuts. You could hold the bumper just right and snug the nut and it would never move.
There are so many reasons why bolted joints were a thing on the C5 and not more modern cars.
The c5 is pretty barren when it comes to tech and features, which makes sense due to the price when it was new and the year it was released. Even in its day it was barren except for the HUD. Modern cars now have so many things they MUST have to be sold, and so many more things they must have to even be competitive.
Consider all the safety tech and various items that must be included on cars these days. That stuff is not cheap, and probably isnt high margin. All the little things that people must have or they wont even consider buying the car like infotainment, rear cameras, smartphone connectivity, the thousands of hours of R&D that goes into the software in the car, the ECU, TCM, and everything running the thing. This is all drastically different than the C5, its an extra cost for the manufacturer and the consumer, and the margins probably arent high on any of these things.
When you've got costs raising somewhere sometimes you've got to cut them elsewhere. You've also got to consider volume. If moving away from bolting on the bumpers and having to align them saves a few seconds or a minute per car, that adds up significantly over a production run and can drastically impact costs.
The fact of the matter is that the corvette has always been budget performance, and when you keep that in mind and look at what you're getting, it makes sense why things like this exist on this platform. You have to make sacrifices in some areas to improve in others. Most people arent fussy over a 2mm panel misalignment, so it makes sense for them to make that sacrifice. Theres always going to be people who will go over the paint with a depth gauge and complain because its 5 microns too thin in one area, but you can never appeal to people like that, so why try?
The snap together joint would be fine if they made the bracket that bolts to the fender have less movement. If you ever take apart a C7 that bracket has big holes for adjustment. Problem is you don't know if it needs adjustment until the bumper is snapped on! They should have made the bracket to a higher standard to where it can only go on one way.
Don't get me started on how you have to pry the bumpers off these cars... once you take them off they never lay down the same way again. If you look at every C7 that had a Z06 grill swapped they all have pointy uppy corners.
The snap together joint would be fine if they made the bracket that bolts to the fender have less movement. If you ever take apart a C7 that bracket has big holes for adjustment. Problem is you don't know if it needs adjustment until the bumper is snapped on! They should have made the bracket to a higher standard to where it can only go on one way.
Don't get me started on how you have to pry the bumpers off these cars... once you take them off they never lay down the same way again. If you look at every C7 that had a Z06 grill swapped they all have pointy uppy corners.
It isnt just the bumper. Its not that easy. The bumper attaches to another part of the car, which is attached to another part of the car, which rides on another part, and so on. The bumpers are produced in different runs, with different material batches, with molds and stamps that are aging with every use. The properties of the bumper will change minutely from the beginning of a run to the very end, from the start of a new stamp or mold to the end of life for that stamp/mold. An early C7 bumper will not have the same flex to it as a late C7. Nothing significant enough that you or I would ever be able to notice just looking at the two parts alone, but when you assemble all of these parts together they can result in inconsistencies during assembly. Attaching all of this together while considering the above applies to almost EVERY part, then having such an insignificant misalignment really isnt a big deal. The cost to do it differently would be substantial.
I'm not arguing that the C5 bumpers didnt fit better. I'm just providing my perspective. Consider what you'd pay to have that small misalignment disappear. Unless you REALLY hate it, I bet the amount youd pay is less than what it would cost per unit to actually achieve.
Last edited by WoozyWagtail; 07-26-2019 at 03:35 PM.
One last post then I'll stop my rant... I've been watching this area closely. The reveal cars appeared very good. The rapid blue car floating around looked good. Now this... is shows that if the assembler bolts the bracket on the fender wrong it'll be off... and, like the C7, it'll be more trouble that it's worth to pry the bumper off and try to adjust.
EDIT - Looking close here the passenger side corner is up and driver side is fine
"the fascia sticking up was catching the sun lovely....after the 6 years of issues they've had with the corners of the C7s fascias meet with the fender above or next to the headlight they wouldn't find a better way to do this? This is a preproduction unit I was reminded by a couple of gm employees which.... is laughable. That car should be perfect. More perfect than the rush job in the line that's for sure. The hatch panel at the top of the glass wasn't even close the orange of the rest of the car nor was the spoiler. My guess is that the panel housing the rearview mirror camera and the spoilers (body color) are painted by the vendors like the exposed carbon weave hoods and roofs now. Almost none match. Some are so off it's terrible."
"The car looked like it was surrounded by the walking dead. A good percentage of these people were elderly males acting like north jersey or NYC morons and saying the dumbest things in front of woman and children it was just a complete joke. I moved to nj from nyc couple decades ago if I ever acted like these people I am truly...truly.. sorry. My God. "
I am disappointed to see what you wrote about paint issue. This was/is my biggest concern about the C8 after the paint issues I have had with my 2019 Stingray. I will not buy another Corvette with less than a perfect paint job.
Never thought much about it but it is entirely possible that my 72 year old butt probably does look corpse-like particularly with the medical issues I have had in recent years. I guess when I go to see the first C8's that get to my local dealer, I will put a bag over my head so as not to offend others. I am, however, not from NJ or NY so I am unlikely to say dumb things in front of woman and children.
It isnt just the bumper. Its not that easy. The bumper attaches to another part of the car, which is attached to another part of the car, which rides on another part, and so on. The bumpers are produced in different runs, with different material batches, with molds and stamps that are aging with every use. The properties of the bumper will change minutely from the beginning of a run to the very end, from the start of a new stamp or mold to the end of life for that stamp/mold. An early C7 bumper will not have the same flex to it as a late C7. Nothing significant enough that you or I would ever be able to notice just looking at the two parts alone, but when you assemble all of these parts together they can result in inconsistencies during assembly. Attaching all of this together and having such an insignificant misalignment really isnt a big deal. The cost to do it differently would be substantial.
I'm not arguing that the C5 bumpers didnt fit better. I'm just providing my perspective. Consider what you'd pay to have that small misalignment disappear. Unless you REALLY hate it, I bet the amount youd pay is less than what it would cost per unit to actually achieve.
Here's how you fix it... the fascia is unchanged. Bracket snaps to fascia first and the part that normally bolts to the fender has threaded holes. Put fascia in place, then run the bolts in from the back of the fender while holding the bumper in perfect position. Would work every time and you wouldn't have to pry the fascia off the car for any work. You'd have to design access, but that would be easy to just put a plastic access panel under the front hood on each side just outside of the frunk gasket... but no... then you have two extra close out panels to make/stock/develop.
The black bracket circled here... in the current way it gets bolted to the fender from the front. The bolts aren't accessible once the fender is on the car.
07-26-2019, 02:45 PM
C8 fascia to fender alignment issue C8 on tour in NJ
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