50MileSmile

Really? Why? There are a whole bunch of people on the Mustang forum doing exactly that.

Mcrider

Honestly, do you think most of them have a clue about Corvettes and the different models?

50MileSmile

As a matter of fact, I do. Having been a member of that forum for several years, I can tell you that there are many smart and thoughtful enthusiasts there who know competitive makes very well, as well as a few folks who are totally misinformed - sort of like here and every other automotive forum. The C8 is a game changer for all automotive enthusiasts, and to think that only hardcore Corvette people can understand the C8 is what’s “nonsense on steroids.”

Warp Factor

Agreed. Every car enthusiast I know, regardless of their brand or model preference, knows quite a bit about the C8. It's really had that big an impact.

Millerrock

They rate mustangs against Honda Civic type R’s, the corvette has always been against the 911 and others.

Mcrider

Again, comparing a GT500 against a BASE C8 is nonsense. Why not compare a Hellcat to a BASE C8 while you are at it?

A coworker owns a GT500 and it is a pure beast in every sense of the word.

When the Z06 C8 comes out then compare it to that. That's an somewhat equal comparison.

Mcrider

What real info is out there? Not very damned much. We "know" what GM has decided they will tell us and very little more. This ooh aahh is nothing more than mental masturbation over a new model. Reminds me of 13 year old boys with their first Playboy magazine out behind the garage. Life ended up showing us that not every woman looked like Miss October.

In a year or so we should know quite a bit when the car is in the hands of a couple of thousand owners.

This car could be a massive miss in the auto world or it could be a huge it, or somewhere in between. NOBODY knows yet.

Supermassive

Look I get the appeal of owning a nearly 800hp car from the factory but the GT500 is first and foremost a Mustang. It has a hard time effectively putting power down due to the car's layout. The GT350 is about as much horsepower as the chassis can handle well enough to be a serious sports car...the fat tires all around probably make that happen, but I digress. I went from a 3LT C7 to a 2015 Mustang GT with the PP because of the need to own a car with a backseat at the time. Needless to say the quality of everything on a Mustang compared to the C7 was just no comparison. I despised the GT because if its inability to put the base 435 horsepower down predictably and the extremely cheap feeling interior. I sat in a GT350 and wrote it off because it was exactly the same crap interior. The GT500 is no different, bad interior, inferior chassis, and just oozes Ford's penchant for making things cheaply.

I'm not saying the C8 is perfect or doesn't suffer from mass production compromises....I just think that all of the horsepower in the world cannot make a Mustang equal to a Vette. The C8 may get walked by a GT500 in a straight line but that same C8 will eat the GT500 for lunch on any track with turns its apples and oranges here.

Warp Factor

People will compare what they wish to compare. That's what people do. Nothing wrong with that.

GrampZ

I DD a 2017 GT350R. I previously DD’d and tracked a ‘04 Mach 1 that I had massaged just slightly for twisties. I also had an ‘06 Z06 that I drove in fair weather and tracked quite a bit. The C7 has never appealed to me, and for many reasons I’m not a fan of superchargers, so I’ve been patiently waiting for the C8. It did not disappoint. I will now wait with baited breath for the Z06 to see if GM goes 2-0 on this platform, whereupon I’ll pull the trigger.

As for the R, it’s not going anywhere. It is not the fastest car I’ve owned, or could reasonably buy, but like T says, it’s special. Very special.

smithers

A lot of the markups on the Focus RS faded away a year or so ago. It started to come back when the 2018 LE cars started showing up, but it didn’t last as all the “must have it at any price” buyers were long gone. But the first 1-2 years for that car being on the market were full of horror stories with ADMs and dealers taking orders and not disclosing they wanted an ADM until delivery day. I bought mine in July 2017 and had to drive 500 miles to a dealer that would sell it for slightly under MSRP. All my local dealers only had fully optioned cars with an ADM on top of that.. so they were $50k cars lol The way Ford dealers handled any of these special Ford Performance cars really makes the brand look bad. There were dealers with the same RS in their showroom for a year because they wouldn’t budge on the ADM. I’d like to get a grabber blue GT350 but I just don’t want to deal with all that BS again.

jefnvk

Eh, that's any brand with premium, less available cars. Ferrari is a nightmare in that regard, Porsche pulls six figure dealer markups, even now Chevy dealers are still asking crazy markups on ZR1s. Heck, even Jeep Gladiators are seeing it, and that is a vehicle that isn't limited. The only one I commend for trying to do something about it was Dodge, who produced all the MSRP sale Demons before the ones selling with markup. Even that didn't stop the practice.

Realistically, the only way around it is to allow direct sales to customers, a practice which needed to start a long time ago. It is the one "disruption" I actually hope Tesla pulls off.

ShadowGray19

Interesting discussion. I have owned 5 Corvettes including 2 - C7s. I have also owned a 2012 Mustang GT Premium and a 2012 Shelby GT 500. IMO both the C8 and GT500 are great cars. They are just different. Pricing is going to be a big issue with the Ford and timing is everything. I stumbled into the GT500 purchase by accident. I never seriously considered a new Shelby because of ADMs until 2012. The word had hit the street about the huge increase in HP for he 2013 model. Suddenly, the dealers could not give away the remaining 2012s. I was in getting my GT serviced and my salesman offered me a trade deal I could not pass up and I got the Shelby for a 12% discount under MSRP (unheard of). I loved the Shelby and kept it 3 years (no issues whatsoever). Wish I had it back. Loved my Corvettes although I am not at all happy about the peeling paint issue on my 2019. If I see the same issues on the C8, I would not touch one.

I think the C8 will sell very well initially and then we shall see what happens when we have real world experience with the car. The GT500 will also sell well (but not to guys like me who will never pay an ADM or even MSRP on anything). As others have said, it is a great time to be a car guy that loves high performance cars.

JadeRaven

Yeah, Ford is just trying to juice their cool stuff as much as they can. By squeezing production they can somehow justify the higher MSRPs, and it's exacerbated by the dealers. By the time you can find cars without the ADM, without all the drama, enough time has passed the excitement has worn off and frankly I don't really want it anymore.

Stuff like the Ford Raptor and Shelby mustangs, even the Ford GT used to represent solid value performance products. $50k used to get you a nicely equipped Raptor, I think just a handful of years ago $55k was the entry price into the 662 horsepower gt500. Now, it's $70k for both products, each based on a <$25,000 underlying vehicle. Again, even the Ford GT used to be a great value american supercar, now it's a $400,000 museum piece that's only worth the price because of the artificial scarcity, and beaten by the competition before it even hit the streets.

And finally, regardless of the pricing, they stretch out their product launches so much that by the time you can see it in a showroom, it's old news. We've been waiting on this GT500 for how long now? Raptor was the same way.

It's funny, I generally prefer Ford products to Chevy, will probably replace my daily driver with the next-gen F150 in a couple of years, but the C8 was an instant-sale for me, whereas nothing Ford makes gets me that excited.

JadeRaven

IMO, Ford is throttling their production and making this happen on purpose. No doubt in my mind.

Don't get me wrong, they are producing a ton of cars. But they are intentionally producing fewer than the market demands, which kicks off the ADM thing that doesn't fade until many months, sometimes a year+ later.

Yes, there are big differences, but at the end of the day, these things are all still just mustangs, F150s, focuses. No reason why you shouldn't be able to find, spec your own build, buy at sticker (or at a discount) when they hit.

justplainjim

i don't think the greedy dealers that tacked on an extra $10-$20k mark up helped much..

slythetove

Agreed. It always makes me chuckle when I see people making their choices of car based on "everyone else not having one". Who gives a damn what everyone else has or doesn't have ? If I love driving the car I'm going to drive it! I don't care if there are literally 20 similar cars driving next to me every single day - what difference does that make to me?

OVR60

Wait until the excitement for the C8 dies down and see what the reaction is from the REAL PEOPLE. Mid engine cars are nothing new and GM has been slow to develop one and they are years behind everyone else.

jefnvk

I agree, but its never going to happen with a forced middleman dealer system. I should be able to go to Ford or Chevy's website when a vehicle hits, punch in my order online, either give my banking info to do a funds transfer or have financing available right on the spot, and have it show up on a flatbed a few weeks later, but I can't with Michigan's laws.

smithers

I drive what I like. But now that I have had a car that isn’t common, I can honestly say it’s a little more enjoyable to drive a car that draws some attention because it isn’t common. It just makes the experience a little more fun when you can’t hardly drive the car anywhere without people wanting to talk to you about it. It just adds to the experience.