GM just exposed Porsche, Honda, Lamborghini, and Ferrari
07-22-2019, 01:30 PM
#41
Yep, exclusivity is something you pay for.
Its the same reason why some people have multi million dollar homes in exclusive neighborhoods that are smaller than 200-300k homes out in the burbs.
At a certain point it isn't about the asset itself.
Its the same reason why some people have multi million dollar homes in exclusive neighborhoods that are smaller than 200-300k homes out in the burbs.
At a certain point it isn't about the asset itself.
Last edited by StanleyTTU; 07-22-2019 at 01:32 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Rapid Fred (07-22-2019)
07-22-2019, 02:16 PM
#43
Just look up the words "Luxury Item". Any car is worth exactly what people are willing to pay for it. As far as people being stupid paying $400,000 for a car, since they are making the kind of money it takes to pay $400,000 for one exactly how stupid are they?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 07-22-2019 at 02:17 PM.
07-22-2019, 03:13 PM
#44
Race Director
Ah, you seem like the go-to guy to ask these questions then:
1. Estimated R&D for the model you brought up (NSX)
2. Estimated cost of assembly (including costs of re-tooling plants, labor, materials)
3. Estimated final project cost using extrapolated data from current sales to set final number of vehicles produced, then dividing R&D budget buy #cars sold, including the costs to produce them of course.
4. Total net profit/loss, factoring into the company's accounting records for the past few years and then using the data to speculate whether or not the company executives were doing their fiduciary duty to make their stock investors as wealthy as possible.
Given that this site seems to have an inordinate amount of very wise, intelligent, sub-mid to mid-age men, you being one of them of course, I'm sure I'll be able to get some fantastic data from you guys : )
1. Estimated R&D for the model you brought up (NSX)
2. Estimated cost of assembly (including costs of re-tooling plants, labor, materials)
3. Estimated final project cost using extrapolated data from current sales to set final number of vehicles produced, then dividing R&D budget buy #cars sold, including the costs to produce them of course.
4. Total net profit/loss, factoring into the company's accounting records for the past few years and then using the data to speculate whether or not the company executives were doing their fiduciary duty to make their stock investors as wealthy as possible.
Given that this site seems to have an inordinate amount of very wise, intelligent, sub-mid to mid-age men, you being one of them of course, I'm sure I'll be able to get some fantastic data from you guys : )
All of the items you bring up must be accurately calculated/forecast in putting together a robust business case. However, none of them have anything to do with “justifying” the MSRP. Most buyers do not care about what a product cost to develop or manufacture. They care about what the product delivers vs. what it costs them to obtain it. On that basis, if I were on Honda’s board I’d be asking the same question (or better would have asked it before the project was approved). That is, “how can you justify the asking price?” If they came back with only investment/cost data, I’d send them back to come up with a marked-based justification.
Unlike the Acura guys, seems like the Ferrari-Porsche guys have figured this out...
Last edited by Rapid Fred; 07-22-2019 at 03:16 PM.
07-22-2019, 03:30 PM
#45
Now, this is meant to be a compliment, but I’m betting you are a solid accountant or engineer. I would be a bit surprised if you have/had full P&L responsibility.
All of the items you bring up must be accurately calculated/forecast in putting together a robust business case. However, none of them have anything to do with “justifying” the MSRP. Most buyers do not care about what a product cost to develop or manufacture. They care about what the product delivers vs. what it costs them to obtain it. On that basis, if I were on Honda’s board I’d be asking the same question (or better would have asked it before the project was approved). That is, “how can you justify the asking price?” If they came back with only investment/cost data, I’d send them back to come up with a marked-based justification.
Unlike the Acura guys, seems like the Ferrari-Porsche guys have figured this out...
All of the items you bring up must be accurately calculated/forecast in putting together a robust business case. However, none of them have anything to do with “justifying” the MSRP. Most buyers do not care about what a product cost to develop or manufacture. They care about what the product delivers vs. what it costs them to obtain it. On that basis, if I were on Honda’s board I’d be asking the same question (or better would have asked it before the project was approved). That is, “how can you justify the asking price?” If they came back with only investment/cost data, I’d send them back to come up with a marked-based justification.
Unlike the Acura guys, seems like the Ferrari-Porsche guys have figured this out...
07-22-2019, 03:37 PM
#46
Just popping in to also mention that the dealership experience at a Chevy dealership is pretty abysmal compared to the "luxury" or "exotic" brands.
We have an Audi S3 and SQ5 in addition to the C6Z, and you're treated like royalty at the Audi dealership.
I'm never worried about someone joyriding the cars, you always get a free loaner car with zero hassle. They even sometimes put you in a nicer/newer model loaner car just to tempt you into an upgrade (but they never mention that or harass you).
GM really should be doing some of this stuff, I avoid taking my Z06 to any dealership if I can help it. I'm lucky enough that there's a great Corvette mechanic at a local dealership here, but wouldn't trust any of the others around the area. Still no loaner, still no 5-star treatment.
We have an Audi S3 and SQ5 in addition to the C6Z, and you're treated like royalty at the Audi dealership.
I'm never worried about someone joyriding the cars, you always get a free loaner car with zero hassle. They even sometimes put you in a nicer/newer model loaner car just to tempt you into an upgrade (but they never mention that or harass you).
GM really should be doing some of this stuff, I avoid taking my Z06 to any dealership if I can help it. I'm lucky enough that there's a great Corvette mechanic at a local dealership here, but wouldn't trust any of the others around the area. Still no loaner, still no 5-star treatment.
07-22-2019, 03:51 PM
#47
07-22-2019, 05:12 PM
#48
So you think the C8 wont change anything? 10 guys in my car group. All 10 are waiting before they buy anything...waiting to see more on the C8. Already had an impact and its not even on the road. Game Changer? You bet...most of them are Porsche guys and ready to change. They never believed the C8 would give this much for so little. Like it or not...there’s a new sheriff in town...
Last edited by Blue Curvette; 07-22-2019 at 05:13 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Blue Curvette:
ArmchairArchitect (07-22-2019),
Dr. ice (07-22-2019)
07-22-2019, 05:41 PM
#49
Melting Slicks
Corvette and Porsche fanboys will always stay with their brand....good or bad. True car enthusiasts have no loyalty to any brand and will follow their heart. They are the true winners able to always enjoy the better car.
The following users liked this post:
ArmchairArchitect (07-22-2019)
07-22-2019, 05:44 PM
#50
Instructor
Considering you can buy certain Porsches and Ferrari's and sell them for a profit, I don't think they're nervous at all.
Chevy makes it up in Volume. How many Corvettes are made vs. Caymans? Or Ferrari's? When everyone can afford it and have it, it's not that special is it? People buying 500k lambos are partially buying them for exclusivity.
Chevy makes it up in Volume. How many Corvettes are made vs. Caymans? Or Ferrari's? When everyone can afford it and have it, it's not that special is it? People buying 500k lambos are partially buying them for exclusivity.
07-22-2019, 06:23 PM
#51
They also don't allow the buyer to sell their car. If you don't follow their rules they won't sell you another one.
07-22-2019, 09:24 PM
#53
Melting Slicks
I see you have been introduced to Punky, he is the club President. LOL.
Last edited by Dr. ice; 07-22-2019 at 09:25 PM.
07-22-2019, 09:33 PM
#54
They’ve shed light on the pricing scam that is the existing mid engine sports cars market.
How can Honda justify the NSX’s price? It has zero racing heritage, performance is ok, but it’s basically, priced off of nostalgia and hype.
Let’s hope the C8 wakes up the auto industry, and we see MSRPs on mid engines come back down to realistic pricing levels.
Regardless, Bravo GM.
How can Honda justify the NSX’s price? It has zero racing heritage, performance is ok, but it’s basically, priced off of nostalgia and hype.
Let’s hope the C8 wakes up the auto industry, and we see MSRPs on mid engines come back down to realistic pricing levels.
Regardless, Bravo GM.
The NSX, is pretty much a cheaper TTV6 version of the Porsche 918 Spyder. Go sit in one, and drive it.
The mid engine cars are priced the way they are for a reason. Go sit in a Huracan, Aventador, R8, 488/F8, and you’ll see where that money goes. Various different interior materials, carbon fiber, etc. Plus, exclusivity. We all know that the Corvette’s mandate is to provide performance near or at certain benchmark levels, for cheap. So they have to skimp on some things.
This is something you should know.
The following users liked this post:
Leftlane_1 (07-23-2019)
07-23-2019, 10:21 AM
#55
Team Owner
Thread Starter
There is a LOT more to the exotic car ownership experience than a loud engine and great performance. (Clubs and socializing with other exotic car enthusiasts among the many benefits). Exotic cars don’t compete for dollars with automobiles, they compete for lifestyle enhancements like boats, yachts, RV’s, condos, vacation homes, expensive works of art, etc..
I’m very much looking forward to my C8 as that is the car that I will enjoy most and put the vast majority of miles on, but I’ll also be keeping my Lamborghini Huracan for those special event days and because of the friendships I have formed because of it.
I’m very much looking forward to my C8 as that is the car that I will enjoy most and put the vast majority of miles on, but I’ll also be keeping my Lamborghini Huracan for those special event days and because of the friendships I have formed because of it.
07-23-2019, 10:23 AM
#56
Team Owner
Thread Starter
The Ignorance is strong in this one. The NSX has racing heritage, mostly in Japan. Some have run at Le Mans. And if you count the front engine V8 version, the HSV-010 GT (which was the defunct V10 NSX), the NSX has raced for 3 generations. Spanning the 90s until now.
The NSX, is pretty much a cheaper TTV6 version of the Porsche 918 Spyder. Go sit in one, and drive it.
The mid engine cars are priced the way they are for a reason. Go sit in a Huracan, Aventador, R8, 488/F8, and you’ll see where that money goes. Various different interior materials, carbon fiber, etc. Plus, exclusivity. We all know that the Corvette’s mandate is to provide performance near or at certain benchmark levels, for cheap. So they have to skimp on some things.
This is something you should know.
The NSX, is pretty much a cheaper TTV6 version of the Porsche 918 Spyder. Go sit in one, and drive it.
The mid engine cars are priced the way they are for a reason. Go sit in a Huracan, Aventador, R8, 488/F8, and you’ll see where that money goes. Various different interior materials, carbon fiber, etc. Plus, exclusivity. We all know that the Corvette’s mandate is to provide performance near or at certain benchmark levels, for cheap. So they have to skimp on some things.
This is something you should know.
What races have the NSX won? What factory race team did Honda sponsor?
And the quality materials meme
07-23-2019, 10:32 AM
#57
Banned Scam/Spammer
Lets all go buy a used 911 and trash Corvettes along with their owners on a Corvette forum like "Dr. ice" does.
07-23-2019, 10:45 AM
#58
c8 will absolutely destroy the used exotic market. anyone considering a Gallardo, 360, 430, 458, r8, 570 is going to have to consider a new c8 they can option exactly as they want with a new car warranty. wheezy 718s are done in my mind. Porsche will have to make them all electric or cancel them. 992 will lose plenty to c8 also. and a future c8 with an exotic motor like dohc tt with 650 +hp will be a thorn in side of new exotics.
The following users liked this post:
cardood5000 (07-23-2019)
07-23-2019, 10:57 AM
#59
Granted that a Porsche is not an exotic, but it is certainly a high end sports cars, and at least Rennlist forum members seem to be open to buying a C8.
The following users liked this post:
cardood5000 (07-23-2019)
07-23-2019, 11:06 AM
#60
If you want to see how the C8 is being received by owners of other sports cars, just visit Rennlist, "other Marque Discussions" forum,"thoughts on the new Corvette " thread, and you'll see numerous posts, some of them highly critical of the C8 and its owners but many favorable. The vast majority of criticisms are based on Corvette stereotypes: ugly interior, cheap, gold chain wearing owners, poorly made, Camaro exterior, etc. And all these criticisms are made by people who never even saw the car in person. There is a poll as part of the thread, and fewer than 10% stated that they would never buy a C8.
Granted that a Porsche is not an exotic, but it is certainly a high end sports cars, and at least Rennlist forum members seem to be open to buying a C8.
Granted that a Porsche is not an exotic, but it is certainly a high end sports cars, and at least Rennlist forum members seem to be open to buying a C8.
Last edited by 99999; 07-23-2019 at 11:07 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by 99999:
FinsterforstFan (07-23-2019),
sly1 (07-23-2019)