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GTR is dead because it’s been the same for ten years. Without a major redesign the sales are over with. The price is also drastically higher than when it came out.
At at least the NSX is fast, idk what Toyota was thinking with this so called Supra.
Agree 100%, the GTR was a real mean thing when it first came out, but now its gone stale.
I was never a fan of the older supras either but I did respect their power capabilities , the prices of them has skyrocketed to numbers so high id say you would have to be a total fool to even consider it, but they have a cult following of their own I guess.
The new supra falls flat on its face , its dead on arrival. 335 hp is really really bad ,not sure who its supposed to be compteting with and since its essentially german made the engine isn't going to be able to handle anything like the 2JZ's did.
The NSX is a beautiful car , I saw one in person and took me a while to figure out what it was, but they diverted so far from what made them famous in the first place, and I think they missed their shot to revive it (and their brand ) again.
The Viper died because Chrysler was stuck in the 90s. There’s a reason Ferrari, Lamborghini, and others, don’t offer manuals anymore. Now Vette included. They just don’t sell in large numbers, particularly to the people that can afford them.
Better that the Viper died with dignity than become another DCT-only affair. To want a Viper that is automatic is to fundamentally not understand the point of the Viper, which is to be a modern Cobra. The Viper doesn't adapt to you, you adapt to the Viper. It's a car that requires to be driven and, if all one wanted to do was to showboat in comfort, then it was not the car to choose. Contrast the the Corvette, which has always been a display of technological and styling prowess first and foremost. While I bemoan basically everything about the new car, it is thematically correct.
For a similar reason, it seems a lot of GT350s are being flipped with few miles because people who did not understand the car have bought one anyway and subsequently discovered that they just can't live with the brutality. What they wanted was an Audi RS5 and not what is only a few steps away from a road-legal race car.
Better that the Viper died with dignity than become another DCT-only affair. To want a Viper that is automatic is to fundamentally not understand the point of the Viper, which is to be a modern Cobra. The Viper doesn't adapt to you, you adapt to the Viper. It's a car that requires to be driven and, if all one wanted to do was to showboat in comfort, then it was not the car to choose. Contrast the the Corvette, which has always been a display of technological and styling prowess first and foremost. While I bemoan basically everything about the new car, it is thematically correct.
For a similar reason, it seems a lot of GT350s are being flipped with few miles because people who did not understand the car have bought one anyway and subsequently discovered that they just can't live with the brutality. What they wanted was an Audi RS5 and not what is only a few steps away from a road-legal race car.
Cars evolve. The Viper didn’t. The people who remember and revere the AC Cobra are getting much older and getting out of the sports car buying arena. If the most famous full on sports cars makers had to leave behind manuals, Viper didn’t stand a chance. I do love the Vipers though, particularly the final models and the original GTS’. And at least they’ll hold their value quite well in comparison to mass built cars like the Corvette.
The C8 is much better looking than the NSX - especially the 3/4 view from the front. When GM transitioned from the C1 to the Stingray, I thought the Stingray was too angular. I have a C5 Z' that I think is ideal but the design of the C8 looks better every day since the reveal. It's definitely a design that grows on one. The only view that's not very flattering is from straight above - but probably all ME designs suffer this...however, the total package is revolutionary and will probably see me letting go of the C5, eventually. Something I thought I would never say.
I think it’s funny when I read stuff like this. The NSX was never meant to compete against a Corvette. And they are likely rarely cross shopped. Corvettes are “cheap” and mass produced. About 1800 NSXs have been made in total with less than 1k being in the United States. I do agree at MSRP the car was way over priced. However, I, like most people, didn’t pay anywhere close to MSRP for one.
I doubt the C8 takes hardly any, if any, sales away from the NSX. Or any other Exotic for that matter. It’s not like Ferrari/McLaren/Lamborghini owners are running around saying “man I wish Corvette would produce a mid engine car because I’m sick of paying 200k plus for mine”.
Now on the flip side, does any of this take away from the Corvette’s abilities? Not in the slightest. That’s likely Howe most of us decided to buy one in the first place. The bang for the buck was/is just undeniable. My first Corvette was a C7 GS. And what I paid for it there is nothing in this world that competes with it. The car was amazing. I plan on buying another one in a year or so. For what I paid for my C7 Z06, there’s nothing within a hundred K that I think comes close to it on a track, specifically because I had the Z07 package as well.
Chevy does a great job with the Corvette. Particularly since the C5 Z06 in my opinion. However, that doesn’t mean we have to act like the thought process behind buying a Corvette is similar to that of an exotic. Maybe the ZR1 since it was going for 140ish. But base model Corvettes under 60k for people buying NSXs, R8s, McLarens, Ferrari’s, Lamborghinis, or any other exotic is an additional car in their driveway, not an either or.
If I were going to spend $160k on a car, I wouldn't choose the NSX honda, I would increase my budget to $180k and get a McLaren 570S. Honda appliance versus McLaren exotic.
I'm a vette lover but appreciate cars from all marques so here goes
the nsx
side and back look way better. the rear is a smooth blend with nice thin tail lights that looks really good
front is a big old predator cow catcher mess
side profile looks great
technology blows the vette away and is a future glimpse of what a hybrid vette might look like (I hope but lose the batteries!!)
overall a HUGE financial fail
c8 vette
rear end needs work, spolier looks awful (except the blade wing), license plate cove is a euro concession
I don't like the plastic vents at all, leave the toothy waterfall grill out of the front and make the front end cleaner
the side coves are not well integrated and the door tooth is a bad idea
like most modern cars GM has locked it and thrown away the key for tuners (that's sad, it could use some more ponies)
the interior looks like it belongs in a heart attack caddilac not a vette. I know most folks want all that luxury, but it add weights and complexity
the vette is a big car and while GM keeps inventing cool exotic materials, they burden the beast carrying too much (3000 target is where it should land, c5 was almost there with a STEEL frame, cmon guys)
the price makes all forgiven, I expected more of a hike as this car is much more advanced than c7
fixing this beast won't be fun. Less parts to worry about, but harder to service. New computer system is much more advanced as is the network of computers and wiring (more weight guys!!)
overall a huge win. I'm a critic because like most we want vette to be #1
So what I'm going to do. Wait for the twin turbo car and if an electric motor finds it's way up front and performs better, why not
work on a tiger shark styling kit. different look for the back, more clean and open aggressive grill without the waterfall middle insert and plastic vents (sorry, they don't do it for me)
Lots of opportunity for easy win on styling of the front and rear fascias to make the car much more aggressive and clean looking (hint GM)
I'm going to have to live with the side cove scoop unless a door panel and qtr panel can be fashioned, that's a big fix and again, room for improvement
Overall it's a great representation of the corvette formula, exotic car performance at working man's price
I think this car is going to break some hearts. I haven't had a vette yet that I didn't customize and hot rod to suite me. C8 will be tougher to do that (even with the turbo version) so I'm hoping GM can give me 800 out of the box. They have done 755 ZR-1, next one needs to run away and hide from the current c7 ZR-1 and then I'm in.
Most people don't care about the hybrid technology as long as it looks the same, same performance, and creates exhaust notes.
If I were going to spend $160k on a car, I wouldn't choose the NSX honda, I would increase my budget to $180k and get a McLaren 570S. Honda appliance versus McLaren exotic.
Cars evolve. The Viper didn’t. The people who remember and revere the AC Cobra are getting much older and getting out of the sports car buying arena. If the most famous full on sports cars makers had to leave behind manuals, Viper didn’t stand a chance. I do love the Vipers though, particularly the final models and the original GTS’. And at least they’ll hold their value quite well in comparison to mass built cars like the Corvette.
Counterpoint: not every car has to or should evolve. Ford could have continued with the Cortina line, but they didn't. The Cortina became the Sierra, which became the Mondeo, each one with a significantly different attitude than its predecessor to keep up with the times.
If Dodge wants to make a mid-engine, DCT-only performance car, it doesn't have to be, and really should not be, called the Viper. The times no longer want a modern interpretation of the Cobra, so the Viper nameplate should go to history and be replaced by a new snake.
I will admit I did find myself scrolling through Viper classifies following the C8 announcement. Perhaps in a few years.
Counterpoint: not every car has to or should evolve. Ford could have continued with the Cortina line, but they didn't. The Cortina became the Sierra, which became the Mondeo, each one with a significantly different attitude than its predecessor.
If Dodge wants to make a mid-engine, DCT-only performance car, it doesn't have to be, and really should not be, called the Viper.
I will admit I did find myself scrolling through Viper classifies following the C8 announcement. Perhaps in a few years.
So I’m not opposed to a name change at all. I don’t think it has to go mid engine and I don’t even think it has to be DCT only, but not offering an auto is going drastically hurt sales. Most people just don’t want it and for true track guys looking for the fastest lap the DCT will always be faster.
07-24-2019, 10:39 PM
