C8: Passing the torch
04-16-2019, 03:53 PM
#21
Instructor
Thread Starter
Your forecasts
are flawed in many ways.
1. Battery technology has not advanced at this point and cannot completely replace combustion engines for private transportation now are in the near future. Look at the fledgling attempt by elon musk
2. Future lithium mining does not look promising.
3, Battery charging infrastructure for automobiles is very limited and expensive.
4. Mass production electricity is not self generating and at this point in time the most viable fuel for power plants is natural gas.
5.. Not all consumers are 70 year old baby boomers.
6. The averaged chinese employee can not afford private transportation and there will never be 500 million middle class chinese consumers due to chinese wages.
7. The world economy is still based on the US dollar.
are flawed in many ways.
1. Battery technology has not advanced at this point and cannot completely replace combustion engines for private transportation now are in the near future. Look at the fledgling attempt by elon musk
2. Future lithium mining does not look promising.
3, Battery charging infrastructure for automobiles is very limited and expensive.
4. Mass production electricity is not self generating and at this point in time the most viable fuel for power plants is natural gas.
5.. Not all consumers are 70 year old baby boomers.
6. The averaged chinese employee can not afford private transportation and there will never be 500 million middle class chinese consumers due to chinese wages.
7. The world economy is still based on the US dollar.
pt 7: the economy is based on the US dollar, and who do you think finances the printing of US dollars? China is the "bank" who owns over 1 trillion dollars of US treasury securities. China has been financing the United States economy for over a decade.
Look, I have no agenda, but I have an objective view of reality. I made this post to spark a stimulating discussion and not start a flame war or to stir nationalist fervor. I'm generally interested in long term economic and social trends and am an avid futurist (in addition to being a car guy). I like to look for dissonance between current reality and the near future. What I see is the death throes of an economic order and it's interesting how all that complexity can be wrapped up in sheet metal and fiberglass.
I know we're getting a little off topic from the C8, but if anyone has general interest in the wider topic, Jack Ma of Alibaba has given some great talks on the subject (and not just in a Chinese-centric way).
PS - I will be buying a C8.
Carry on
Last edited by krazyKanuck; 04-16-2019 at 03:54 PM.
04-16-2019, 04:18 PM
#22
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,657
Received 4,116 Likes
on
1,470 Posts
2020 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
The car in 20 years will be like the horse and buggy was in 1910 -- on its way to extinction.
People 20 years from now will not buy a car - they will rent it by the minute. A driverless car of their choosing will show up and take them where they want to go in the fastest way possible, telling the passenger the exact ETA updated continuously.
No more insurance or monthly car payments. No more registration fees. No more driver's licenses. No more gas stations. Its all included in the rental fee.
No more drunk drivers. No more elderly people having to lose their independence as their licenses are taken away.
We are living in the fourth golden age of the automobile (the 30's the 50's the 60's and today) - and also its twilight.
Anyone who doesn't see this is just fooling themselves. Who will make these vehicles of the future? The three remaining car companies in the world -- one Asian, one European and one American --all selling in a world wide market under international standards.
People 20 years from now will not buy a car - they will rent it by the minute. A driverless car of their choosing will show up and take them where they want to go in the fastest way possible, telling the passenger the exact ETA updated continuously.
No more insurance or monthly car payments. No more registration fees. No more driver's licenses. No more gas stations. Its all included in the rental fee.
No more drunk drivers. No more elderly people having to lose their independence as their licenses are taken away.
We are living in the fourth golden age of the automobile (the 30's the 50's the 60's and today) - and also its twilight.
Anyone who doesn't see this is just fooling themselves. Who will make these vehicles of the future? The three remaining car companies in the world -- one Asian, one European and one American --all selling in a world wide market under international standards.
Last edited by Sin City; 04-16-2019 at 04:21 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Spades11 (04-16-2019)
04-16-2019, 04:56 PM
#23
Safety Car
Member Since: Feb 2016
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Posts: 4,980
Received 3,819 Likes
on
1,615 Posts
OP is correct. The C9 will be the "Lectric Vette." All these "reasons" why it can't happen remind me of horse aficionados listing the reasons the car will never replace the horse. The infrastructure is not there. It's too expensive, there isn't enough gasoline, and on and on. But none of those excuses turned out to be true. Same with the EV. Here we have car companies tripping all over themselves to build EVs: GM, VW, Volvo, now even Ford. These are big guns and it's happening right before our eyes. Yes, people who live in cities who don't have garages will have difficulty charging. But so what? They're living in cities. If you are not working there, why are you living there? Take the (heavily subsidized) mass transit to work. Meanwhile suburbanites, who have garages, will have no trouble charging. And as far as range goes, it's a rare person whose commute is over 200 miles a day. It's a false issue. In fact, you can go all electric right now if you want to.* If you are going to wait, it'll be five years. After that, your next car will be an EV.
* My cousin lives in outer Renton at the foothills of the Cascade Mountains. This ain't exactly solar country, but three years ago (2016) he put up solar panels and last year he bought a Tesla Model S. Right now, today, he is 90% on solar and the entire system will be paid off at the end of the year. From then on, free electricity for both house and car. That's reality for him, today. Sure you can find a reason why you can't do it, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.
* My cousin lives in outer Renton at the foothills of the Cascade Mountains. This ain't exactly solar country, but three years ago (2016) he put up solar panels and last year he bought a Tesla Model S. Right now, today, he is 90% on solar and the entire system will be paid off at the end of the year. From then on, free electricity for both house and car. That's reality for him, today. Sure you can find a reason why you can't do it, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.
04-16-2019, 05:08 PM
#24
I'll preface this post by saying that I am a life long "GM guy". My father worked as an electrician in a GM plant for 40 years. I love cars, my first car was an '85 fiero GT, followed by an '85 2-door chevette when the fiero's engine blew up. I owned a 2002 C5 Z06 and eventually achieved my dream of owning a Ferrari - a 2011 458. I currently have a Cruze for a winter beater and an '18 traverse as the family truckster.
I believe the new C8 is a small, incremental example of a generational passing of the torch that will be played out across society in every industry over the next 25 years.
The world economy was built from the aftermath of the second world war. the United States has been the economic engine and supreme military force in the world for the past 70 years. The Baby Boomer generation was THE driver of that economic growth.
All good things come to and end.
The Baby Boomer generation is entering its twilight, and along with it the cultural, economic and military domination of the west. The future lies in the east. 500 million middle class Chinese consumers and their impact on the world will far exceed what happened in the post WWII world. It has already begun and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle - global society is being shaped by forces that far exceed the potential of the declining populations and influence of western societies.
What does this have to do with the C8? Well, the whole notion of the automobile ownership is entering its twilight. We are in a ~25 year (or less) transition phase. Large corporations need to think about the VLT (very long term) in order to survive. When GM does the math, at some point it makes no sense to build a car for an aging, dying generation. In 25 years there will be no internal combustion engines manufactured for car transportation. Nearly all vehicles will be electric and the majority will be autonomous. Owning a car in 25 years will be the same as owning a horse today - Irrelevant. This is as major an economic and cultural shift the world has ever seen.
So no one should be surprised that the C8 is trying to be forward looking. There is no reason to build a car for a bunch of 70 year olds. At some point, GM needs to put down roots with younger generations and start to build a brand that's relevant in the future.
I would argue that in that context the C8 is still relatively backwards looking and compromises have been made to appeal to a legacy market and its a pretty soft landing in that regard. If people can't wrap their heads around the C8, know that there's a real possibility that this is the second-to-last or last gasoline powered corvette. In fact, the market for cars like the corvette may simply and literally die off.
I believe the new C8 is a small, incremental example of a generational passing of the torch that will be played out across society in every industry over the next 25 years.
The world economy was built from the aftermath of the second world war. the United States has been the economic engine and supreme military force in the world for the past 70 years. The Baby Boomer generation was THE driver of that economic growth.
All good things come to and end.
The Baby Boomer generation is entering its twilight, and along with it the cultural, economic and military domination of the west. The future lies in the east. 500 million middle class Chinese consumers and their impact on the world will far exceed what happened in the post WWII world. It has already begun and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle - global society is being shaped by forces that far exceed the potential of the declining populations and influence of western societies.
What does this have to do with the C8? Well, the whole notion of the automobile ownership is entering its twilight. We are in a ~25 year (or less) transition phase. Large corporations need to think about the VLT (very long term) in order to survive. When GM does the math, at some point it makes no sense to build a car for an aging, dying generation. In 25 years there will be no internal combustion engines manufactured for car transportation. Nearly all vehicles will be electric and the majority will be autonomous. Owning a car in 25 years will be the same as owning a horse today - Irrelevant. This is as major an economic and cultural shift the world has ever seen.
So no one should be surprised that the C8 is trying to be forward looking. There is no reason to build a car for a bunch of 70 year olds. At some point, GM needs to put down roots with younger generations and start to build a brand that's relevant in the future.
I would argue that in that context the C8 is still relatively backwards looking and compromises have been made to appeal to a legacy market and its a pretty soft landing in that regard. If people can't wrap their heads around the C8, know that there's a real possibility that this is the second-to-last or last gasoline powered corvette. In fact, the market for cars like the corvette may simply and literally die off.
Hopefully China and African nations learn from the mistakes of the Western world and don’t repeat them. End of Story.
04-16-2019, 05:53 PM
#25
Baby Boomer generation blew their wad. Ruined the US, created Gen X and Millenial generations who are either apathetic or hate this country—the nihilistic mindset inherited from Baby Boomers.
Hopefully China and African nations learn from the mistakes of the Western world and don’t repeat them. End of Story.
Hopefully China and African nations learn from the mistakes of the Western world and don’t repeat them. End of Story.
04-16-2019, 07:43 PM
#26
Safety Car
I'll preface this post by saying that I am a life long "GM guy". My father worked as an electrician in a GM plant for 40 years. I love cars, my first car was an '85 fiero GT, followed by an '85 2-door chevette when the fiero's engine blew up. I owned a 2002 C5 Z06 and eventually achieved my dream of owning a Ferrari - a 2011 458. I currently have a Cruze for a winter beater and an '18 traverse as the family truckster.
I believe the new C8 is a small, incremental example of a generational passing of the torch that will be played out across society in every industry over the next 25 years.
The world economy was built from the aftermath of the second world war. the United States has been the economic engine and supreme military force in the world for the past 70 years. The Baby Boomer generation was THE driver of that economic growth.
All good things come to and end.
The Baby Boomer generation is entering its twilight, and along with it the cultural, economic and military domination of the west. The future lies in the east. 500 million middle class Chinese consumers and their impact on the world will far exceed what happened in the post WWII world. It has already begun and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle - global society is being shaped by forces that far exceed the potential of the declining populations and influence of western societies.
What does this have to do with the C8? Well, the whole notion of the automobile ownership is entering its twilight. We are in a ~25 year (or less) transition phase. Large corporations need to think about the VLT (very long term) in order to survive. When GM does the math, at some point it makes no sense to build a car for an aging, dying generation. In 25 years there will be no internal combustion engines manufactured for car transportation. Nearly all vehicles will be electric and the majority will be autonomous. Owning a car in 25 years will be the same as owning a horse today - Irrelevant. This is as major an economic and cultural shift the world has ever seen.
So no one should be surprised that the C8 is trying to be forward looking. There is no reason to build a car for a bunch of 70 year olds. At some point, GM needs to put down roots with younger generations and start to build a brand that's relevant in the future.
I would argue that in that context the C8 is still relatively backwards looking and compromises have been made to appeal to a legacy market and its a pretty soft landing in that regard. If people can't wrap their heads around the C8, know that there's a real possibility that this is the second-to-last or last gasoline powered corvette. In fact, the market for cars like the corvette may simply and literally die off.
I believe the new C8 is a small, incremental example of a generational passing of the torch that will be played out across society in every industry over the next 25 years.
The world economy was built from the aftermath of the second world war. the United States has been the economic engine and supreme military force in the world for the past 70 years. The Baby Boomer generation was THE driver of that economic growth.
All good things come to and end.
The Baby Boomer generation is entering its twilight, and along with it the cultural, economic and military domination of the west. The future lies in the east. 500 million middle class Chinese consumers and their impact on the world will far exceed what happened in the post WWII world. It has already begun and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle - global society is being shaped by forces that far exceed the potential of the declining populations and influence of western societies.
What does this have to do with the C8? Well, the whole notion of the automobile ownership is entering its twilight. We are in a ~25 year (or less) transition phase. Large corporations need to think about the VLT (very long term) in order to survive. When GM does the math, at some point it makes no sense to build a car for an aging, dying generation. In 25 years there will be no internal combustion engines manufactured for car transportation. Nearly all vehicles will be electric and the majority will be autonomous. Owning a car in 25 years will be the same as owning a horse today - Irrelevant. This is as major an economic and cultural shift the world has ever seen.
So no one should be surprised that the C8 is trying to be forward looking. There is no reason to build a car for a bunch of 70 year olds. At some point, GM needs to put down roots with younger generations and start to build a brand that's relevant in the future.
I would argue that in that context the C8 is still relatively backwards looking and compromises have been made to appeal to a legacy market and its a pretty soft landing in that regard. If people can't wrap their heads around the C8, know that there's a real possibility that this is the second-to-last or last gasoline powered corvette. In fact, the market for cars like the corvette may simply and literally die off.
No other culture in the world understands the American resolve. No other nation or culture is capable of being the world's responsible leader. The way we raise capital and our constitution is still not understood by all other nations including yours. Once again, we will save your ***.
The giant has been awakened.
If you knew history, you would know what the future holds and I can assure you, it is not China. Sun Tzu's The Art of War was replaced with The American Art of War by Col. Boyd. China's neighbor to the south is the Trump card.
There is no such thing as anthropological climate change and fossil fuel will be the fuel for at least 300 years or more.
These monumental hoaxes perpetrated by the globalist communists will soon be a thing of the past when reality hits the fan including global debt. We are the only nation poised to and capable of coping with what is going to happen.
Sure, transportation will change because it is extremely inefficient as it is and as usual, our scientists will take care of it. Long live the ICE, it is still in it's infancy. The invisible hand will determine the success of the C8.
What Sinclair said about us all those years ago, still holds. Maybe there will be some Albertans that will be on the side of good. Remember, only 14% of the population were revolutionaries.
04-16-2019, 08:28 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
I'll preface this post by saying that I am a life long "GM guy". My father worked as an electrician in a GM plant for 40 years. I love cars, my first car was an '85 fiero GT, followed by an '85 2-door chevette when the fiero's engine blew up. I owned a 2002 C5 Z06 and eventually achieved my dream of owning a Ferrari - a 2011 458. I currently have a Cruze for a winter beater and an '18 traverse as the family truckster.
I believe the new C8 is a small, incremental example of a generational passing of the torch that will be played out across society in every industry over the next 25 years.
The world economy was built from the aftermath of the second world war. the United States has been the economic engine and supreme military force in the world for the past 70 years. The Baby Boomer generation was THE driver of that economic growth.
All good things come to and end.
The Baby Boomer generation is entering its twilight, and along with it the cultural, economic and military domination of the west. The future lies in the east. 500 million middle class Chinese consumers and their impact on the world will far exceed what happened in the post WWII world. It has already begun and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle - global society is being shaped by forces that far exceed the potential of the declining populations and influence of western societies.
What does this have to do with the C8? Well, the whole notion of the automobile ownership is entering its twilight. We are in a ~25 year (or less) transition phase. Large corporations need to think about the VLT (very long term) in order to survive. When GM does the math, at some point it makes no sense to build a car for an aging, dying generation. In 25 years there will be no internal combustion engines manufactured for car transportation. Nearly all vehicles will be electric and the majority will be autonomous. Owning a car in 25 years will be the same as owning a horse today - Irrelevant. This is as major an economic and cultural shift the world has ever seen.
So no one should be surprised that the C8 is trying to be forward looking. There is no reason to build a car for a bunch of 70 year olds. At some point, GM needs to put down roots with younger generations and start to build a brand that's relevant in the future.
I would argue that in that context the C8 is still relatively backwards looking and compromises have been made to appeal to a legacy market and its a pretty soft landing in that regard. If people can't wrap their heads around the C8, know that there's a real possibility that this is the second-to-last or last gasoline powered corvette. In fact, the market for cars like the corvette may simply and literally die off.
I believe the new C8 is a small, incremental example of a generational passing of the torch that will be played out across society in every industry over the next 25 years.
The world economy was built from the aftermath of the second world war. the United States has been the economic engine and supreme military force in the world for the past 70 years. The Baby Boomer generation was THE driver of that economic growth.
All good things come to and end.
The Baby Boomer generation is entering its twilight, and along with it the cultural, economic and military domination of the west. The future lies in the east. 500 million middle class Chinese consumers and their impact on the world will far exceed what happened in the post WWII world. It has already begun and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle - global society is being shaped by forces that far exceed the potential of the declining populations and influence of western societies.
What does this have to do with the C8? Well, the whole notion of the automobile ownership is entering its twilight. We are in a ~25 year (or less) transition phase. Large corporations need to think about the VLT (very long term) in order to survive. When GM does the math, at some point it makes no sense to build a car for an aging, dying generation. In 25 years there will be no internal combustion engines manufactured for car transportation. Nearly all vehicles will be electric and the majority will be autonomous. Owning a car in 25 years will be the same as owning a horse today - Irrelevant. This is as major an economic and cultural shift the world has ever seen.
So no one should be surprised that the C8 is trying to be forward looking. There is no reason to build a car for a bunch of 70 year olds. At some point, GM needs to put down roots with younger generations and start to build a brand that's relevant in the future.
I would argue that in that context the C8 is still relatively backwards looking and compromises have been made to appeal to a legacy market and its a pretty soft landing in that regard. If people can't wrap their heads around the C8, know that there's a real possibility that this is the second-to-last or last gasoline powered corvette. In fact, the market for cars like the corvette may simply and literally die off.
And cancel that gym membership - now!! Hmmm, 500 million middle class Chinese - not so much. Think that China does not have a lot of serious internal problems - wrong. It has a raft of them, any of which could led to a totally different future than the one you have predicted. Nostradamus much? Have you been there?The new C8 has an internal combustion engine (LT1 pushrod derivative) and four wheels, 2 seats, etc. Why do you think that someone who is 70 will not buy one - assuming they like it? In case you haven't noticed, many millennials are either saddled with over a billion dollars of school debt and/or struggling to establish a career and a family - which may not include purchasing $75k limited use toys.
So, I suppose I should fill up a glass of hemlock on the rocks, go out to the garage, and peacefully expire in my M7 '19 Z, that I have not cleaned the dirt off of from the last track outing.
You have no clue what will happen in the next 25 years, no matter how you would like to comfort your fear of the unknown by conjuring up your version of the truth. Well guess what,you did not know this morning, with any certitude, what the day would bring. And tomorrow morning, assuming you do wake up, you get do that all over again.
04-16-2019, 08:34 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Baby Boomer generation blew their wad. Ruined the US, created Gen X and Millenial generations who are either apathetic or hate this country—the nihilistic mindset inherited from Baby Boomers.
Hopefully China and African nations learn from the mistakes of the Western world and don’t repeat them. End of Story.
Hopefully China and African nations learn from the mistakes of the Western world and don’t repeat them. End of Story.
The following users liked this post:
Shaka (04-16-2019)
04-16-2019, 08:37 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
When you factor in that literally everyone's house becomes a charging station it really isn't much of a cluster at all. The main issue that needs to be solved is the long range one. Tesla has the superchargers but it still really isn't a viable option. Once the charging issue is solved for long range the country switching to electric will be easy. The idea I like the best that is being tested now is wireless charging built into lanes on the highway. As in you literally just drive in a certain lane and the car will pick up charge.
I bought a Volt a few years ago because it was cheap (got 15,750 off sticker PLUS the 7,500 tax credit on a new car). But after owning the thing it's basically amazing on a daily basis. In fact, my Wife took it from me because she hates getting gas. Even with the only 40ish mile range on most days we simply don't burn gas. When we do, it's very little to the point that an 8 gallon tank lasts around 1000 miles for my Wife. (for me, it would last until we took a trip out of town because I burned even less than she does). The key is we 'fill' the car up every night with a charge. It's really easy to get used to and it's hard going back to needing gas every week. Furthermore, maintenance is practically nothing. The regenerative braking system means the pads and disks will likely outlast the car. The oil needs to be changed once every 2 years. It's so maintenance free it feels like I'm cheating.
I bought a Volt a few years ago because it was cheap (got 15,750 off sticker PLUS the 7,500 tax credit on a new car). But after owning the thing it's basically amazing on a daily basis. In fact, my Wife took it from me because she hates getting gas. Even with the only 40ish mile range on most days we simply don't burn gas. When we do, it's very little to the point that an 8 gallon tank lasts around 1000 miles for my Wife. (for me, it would last until we took a trip out of town because I burned even less than she does). The key is we 'fill' the car up every night with a charge. It's really easy to get used to and it's hard going back to needing gas every week. Furthermore, maintenance is practically nothing. The regenerative braking system means the pads and disks will likely outlast the car. The oil needs to be changed once every 2 years. It's so maintenance free it feels like I'm cheating.
04-16-2019, 08:51 PM
#30
Wireless car battery charging built into the travel lanes? Where I live, the government can't even fill basic potholes on the roads, much less install and maintain an inductive charging grid built into the highway. Never happen, maybe a 5 mile test road someplace in California will have it.
People keep talking about "autonomous cars on demand in urban centers" - well, telecommunications technology is going to make urban centers more and more obsolete. No one is going to travel from their homes to an urban center for work, to sit in front of the same computer that they have in their house. Telecommunications and computing enhancements will make your house, your office, and your school as well. Complete with telepresence to the home. So the idea that everyone will have autonomous cars on demand coming to their homes in urban centers, is directly at odds with the how the workplace of the future will become more geographically disassociated from high concentration population centers. The cities of the future in the US are not NY and SF, they are places like Nashville TN and Raleigh NC. EVs will be a niche market for decades to come, they would collapse now if not for government subsidy.
People keep talking about "autonomous cars on demand in urban centers" - well, telecommunications technology is going to make urban centers more and more obsolete. No one is going to travel from their homes to an urban center for work, to sit in front of the same computer that they have in their house. Telecommunications and computing enhancements will make your house, your office, and your school as well. Complete with telepresence to the home. So the idea that everyone will have autonomous cars on demand coming to their homes in urban centers, is directly at odds with the how the workplace of the future will become more geographically disassociated from high concentration population centers. The cities of the future in the US are not NY and SF, they are places like Nashville TN and Raleigh NC. EVs will be a niche market for decades to come, they would collapse now if not for government subsidy.
04-16-2019, 10:28 PM
#31
70TR440, I like your reasoning, which appears to be based on solid research. I've seen a little more of the world than most in my 62 years on this earth and the myopic views of your critics really show how much we need to open our eyes to the realities of this 21st-century world. Maybe we haven't given Chevrolet/GM enough credit. I think the C8 architecture has been purposefully created to move into the EV world with minor adjustments. The future is electric. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2022 EV-C8.
04-16-2019, 10:51 PM
#32
The Model3 is the perfect example of the "cult buyer" demand curve. A short time ago, there was a 2 year waiting list (US) for a $35K car selling for $55K. Now, you can get a $37K model3 - in two weeks. The cult buyers all line up early in the demand curve, things look great, then reality sets in. And these same owners will soon be dumping their model3s to get on the waiting list - for the ModelY. The cult always moves on to the next "thing". Tesla needs more US subsidies now to sustain them. They have some orders to fill in the EU, Norway and China.
And the ICE engine isn't done. There are new technologies coming to reduce emissions and gain efficiency. The efficiency of the basic solar cell - has not increased in a very long time, as they cannot solve the heat dissipation problem. And without a battery storage system, home solar doesn't offer much to get people off the grid - and again, is heavily subsidized by other electric rate payers. Another shell game.
I don't understand why people who embrace this green new deal stuff, read this forum. Why do you want a gasoline V8 powered sports car? Go buy a Tesla. On one hand, your politics are destroying the automobile - as governments continue to destroy the ICE car through CO2 regulation and taxation, while on the other hand you are lined up waiting for one of the more "wasteful" cars you could possibly buy.
And the ICE engine isn't done. There are new technologies coming to reduce emissions and gain efficiency. The efficiency of the basic solar cell - has not increased in a very long time, as they cannot solve the heat dissipation problem. And without a battery storage system, home solar doesn't offer much to get people off the grid - and again, is heavily subsidized by other electric rate payers. Another shell game.
I don't understand why people who embrace this green new deal stuff, read this forum. Why do you want a gasoline V8 powered sports car? Go buy a Tesla. On one hand, your politics are destroying the automobile - as governments continue to destroy the ICE car through CO2 regulation and taxation, while on the other hand you are lined up waiting for one of the more "wasteful" cars you could possibly buy.
Last edited by nyca; 04-16-2019 at 10:56 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Michael A (04-16-2019)
04-16-2019, 11:22 PM
#34
Le Mans Master
The following users liked this post:
C7DriverOnt (04-18-2019)
The following users liked this post:
Shaka (04-17-2019)
04-16-2019, 11:25 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
70TR440, I like your reasoning, which appears to be based on solid research. I've seen a little more of the world than most in my 62 years on this earth and the myopic views of your critics really show how much we need to open our eyes to the realities of this 21st-century world. Maybe we haven't given Chevrolet/GM enough credit. I think the C8 architecture has been purposefully created to move into the EV world with minor adjustments. The future is electric. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2022 EV-C8.
Of course mid-engine will bring improved handling traits under most situations, but it is also just as clear that the C8 architecture was designed to accommodate the addition of electric power to IC power. This is not to build a Corvette Tesla but to add to IC power not replace it.
Take a closer look at your "EV world." A previous poster pointed out the nonsense of seeing all of our roads rebuilt in the foreseeable so they could accommodate providing power to EVs as they travel over them. This is the EV nonsensical version of the "Green New Deal" that purports to tear down and rebuild every building in this country. Just 10 miles or so from me they have been working on repaving several miles of road for over two months.
EVs sell mostly either because of massive government subsidies, political views, or status. Our energy infrastructure is becoming more marginalized every year. What will happen when everyone plugs in their EVs every day to draw charges through an energy grid that is already stressed and from fossil fuel/coal plants. Not nuclear because no plants have been built in decades, not solar or wind mill farms which only produce a fraction of our energy.
Of course this will evolve over time (assuming our planet has more than 12 years left to exist) but it wont be soon.
The following users liked this post:
C7DriverOnt (04-18-2019)
The following users liked this post:
ByByBMW (04-16-2019)
04-17-2019, 03:41 AM
#38
Pro
The efficiency of the basic solar cell - has not increased in a very long time, as they cannot solve the heat dissipation problem. And without a battery storage system, home solar doesn't offer much to get people off the grid - and again, is heavily subsidized by other electric rate payers.
While it is true that efficiencies of solar cells have not increased significantly in a while (still around 20%), the cost sure has dropped. I can buy 375W panels for $0.47 per Watt these days. Once you factor in inverters, mounting and balance of system, you're looking at a material cost of about $1 per Watt. ROI is very short these days. My system is paid off already after 3 years (of course Crypto helped me get there quickly which is why I installed the system in the first place).
I believe OP is mostly correct in his vision and find all the rebuttals most entertaining. I do plan on getting a C8, but will wait to see what comes after the base model.
Last edited by Stunt; 04-17-2019 at 03:42 AM.
04-17-2019, 03:52 AM
#39
Racer
I recently returned from a business trip in Shenzen, China (population 12.5 Million). There are virtually no gasoline powered cars on the road. 100% of the taxi fleet is electric and almost no one owns a car. So the answer is: Urban people will not own car, car ownership is already becoming an outdated concept. The entire concept of "commuting" is a function of the interstate system and the development of the suburbs, both of which were heavily lobbied for by US car companies. Car companies wanted to sell cars and so society was shaped around the car. If you look at a developing economy today, this concept does not exist. As populations become more urban and population densities increase, car ownership becomes an afterthought.
The main point here that most have missed is that the US consumer will play an ever declining role in shaping the global economy. Please, take one trip to China to understand the scope and scale of their economy. I promise you it is incomprehensible unless you experience it for yourself.
The main point here that most have missed is that the US consumer will play an ever declining role in shaping the global economy. Please, take one trip to China to understand the scope and scale of their economy. I promise you it is incomprehensible unless you experience it for yourself.
The following 2 users liked this post by C2C3C4C6:
C7DriverOnt (04-18-2019),
Shaka (04-17-2019)
04-17-2019, 06:44 AM
#40
I recently returned from a business trip in Shenzen, China (population 12.5 Million). There are virtually no gasoline powered cars on the road. 100% of the taxi fleet is electric and almost no one owns a car. So the answer is: Urban people will not own car, car ownership is already becoming an outdated concept. The entire concept of "commuting" is a function of the interstate system and the development of the suburbs, both of which were heavily lobbied for by US car companies. Car companies wanted to sell cars and so society was shaped around the car. If you look at a developing economy today, this concept does not exist. As populations become more urban and population densities increase, car ownership becomes an afterthought.
The main point here that most have missed is that the US consumer will play an ever declining role in shaping the global economy. Please, take one trip to China to understand the scope and scale of their economy. I promise you it is incomprehensible unless you experience it for yourself.
The main point here that most have missed is that the US consumer will play an ever declining role in shaping the global economy. Please, take one trip to China to understand the scope and scale of their economy. I promise you it is incomprehensible unless you experience it for yourself.
Last edited by Rinaldo Catria; 04-17-2019 at 06:54 AM.
The following users liked this post:
C7DriverOnt (04-18-2019)