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You don't need to wait for the mods, I'll tell you. Because as soon as you do that (which has happened within every thread in the C8 forum over and over and over) the discussion becomes "No, I hate that car" and "but that car is awesome" and "but what about how great this car is" and "let me post 10 huge photos of these other cars" and "look at this crazy C3 someone stuck an engine in the back of" AND ON AND ON.
Look at the title of the thread and the first post. That is what the thread is about. People want to discuss that subject, not the different thing that you want to discuss.
Why don't you simply create your own thread comparing the C8 to a McClaren or a Ferrari? Then you can have at it without ruining this thread.
Originally Posted by DebRedZR1
It's pretty self explanatory. This thread is about the evolution of the car based on what OP may have seen. As the poster above stated if you want to discuss and compare to other cars start a new thread.
Is it that serious? ...all because someone posted a pic of a McChicken and a Ferrari and mentioned maybe or hopefully it looks like this. My GOD!!! The horror! Thread...ruined.
SMH. it’s a beautiful day folks, life is good. Lighten up.
Last edited by Paulchristian; 02-25-2018 at 11:55 AM.
Oops, I posted this after I saw the mod's comment. We can't make a move 'till we see more C8 stuff. I think this thread follows a natural progression in that regard. Suggesting what we would like to see in the next Vette can't do any harm, in my humble estimation.
If the C8 looks anything like this, this will be my reaction.
Can you please explain to me why people discussing what brands the C8 may take design cues from in a thread titled “I got a sneak peak” is out of line? After all, we are trying to piece together what this car could look like. That’s what this thread is about. It’s all in good fun...I don’t get it. This is ridiculous, IMO.
Paul-it's very, very simple. There is no problem talking about what cars the C8 is borrowing from, or what you'd like to see in the C8 that another car has already.
But when you start talking about what you like about the McLaren, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBJECT'S TOPIC or the C8! This thread is about the C8, not other cars, like McLaren.
Does that make better sense?????
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 02-25-2018 at 11:53 AM.
In order to speculate on what is under the camouflage, you HAVE to reference other competitive vehicles. If not, this and most C8 treads would be a few comments long at most. This is a very active thread. So, I’m guessing people are engaged in it and looking forward to future posts. In comparison, I see other posts that have very few comments and then just pass into oblivion. Just my two cents.....
Not at all. You can simply speak in terms of geometry (angles, dimension, location, etc).
For example, it's as simple/easy as saying/speculating that, "I think that the side inlet could be more of a continual curve with a direction akin to a backwards C."
No need to reference any other/competitive vehicle.
Paul-it's very, very simple. There is no problem talking about what cars the C8 is borrowing from, or what you'd like to see in the C8 that another car has already.
But when you start talking about what you like about the McLaren, that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBJECT'S TOPIC or the C8!
Does that make better sense?????
Steven, thank you for the response. I’ll drop it but don’t agree that talking about what I like about McLaren, Ferrari or other mid engines does not relate to the C8 that has NOT been introduced to the world yet. To me, it’s a valid discussion in a thread that is discussing the POSSIBLE design direction of the C8. We don’t know what car looks like yet.
That said, I’ll drop it because I don’t want to see this thread closed. I think some MODS (not you), need to relax a bit. Just my 2 cents. I will call out the BS when I see it. No reason this thread should be closed based on what has been posted.
Last edited by Paulchristian; 02-25-2018 at 11:56 AM.
"soap bar" "ribbon" or "sleek stiletto" faceted / ribbon look.
The MP4-12C is a milestone in ME design layout which is lower and leaner than even the Ferrari 458 and 488, bar of soap
"envelope of space" "envelope" imperative and the surface styling progression "ribbons" "stream surfaces")
"leap of faith" as deductive observation... squares with
Interesting choice of words. Being air force ret and an aerobatic aviator, let me correct you on the use of just one of these words.'Envelope'.
To remain in 'envelope' is to stay within design limitations, be it structural, temperature,etc . Push the envelope is to explore or challenge the structure. Perhaps a better word choice would be 'Box'.
Aerobatic pilots remain in a 'Box" to perform their routines. This imaginary box with real dimensions is fixed in space and is not affected by wind.
A box also applies to where a race car wing can be placed or any other aero device or something. This imaginary box is also fixed to the car with real dimensions. Angle of incidence is a sub qualifier of the 'box'. The designer creates his own box when he dials in this angle. A of I must not be confused with angle of attack. One is specific to the application and the the other, the box, is a regulated limit for positioning and not the design of the object within.QED,
Obviously the C8 is going to generate a lot of controversy when it is released, likely next year. Even more obviously, the C8 is going to be compared to other MEs and to the C7, et al. We might as well get used to all the comparisons, controversies and complaints, because they are coming soon.
That said, I think the side scoop of the MP4-12C looks a lot like what we have been speculating about for the C8. It is a very defining characteristic and personally, I like it.
If the side scoop is not done right, the design of the car will fail. So it might be better just to copy the MP4-12C side scoop than try to do something "innovative" that flops. There is no room for failure with the C8, given that the C7 design has been such a success.
At a minimum, the Corvette team should be releasing some teaser photos to gauge reactions before finalizing the design. Keeping potential buyers completely in the dark seems risky.
Obviously the C8 is going to generate a lot of controversy when it is released, likely next year. Even more obviously, the C8 is going to be compared to other MEs and to the C7, et al. We might as well get used to all the comparisons, controversies and complaints, because they are coming soon.
You have a point...it is inevitable.
No matter how terrific the ME might look, there will be controversy based on the fact it isn't FE.
The Old School will probably lead the attacks.
There is no room for failure with the C8, given that the C7 design has been such a success.
At a minimum, the Corvette team should be releasing some teaser photos to gauge reactions before finalizing the design. Keeping potential buyers completely in the dark seems risky.
I would agree with that.
There is a lot at stake for GM; they have to get it right.
Obviously the C8 is going to generate a lot of controversy when it is released, likely next year. Even more obviously, the C8 is going to be compared to other MEs and to the C7, et al. We might as well get used to all the comparisons, controversies and complaints, because they are coming soon.
At a minimum, the Corvette team should be releasing some teaser photos to gauge reactions before finalizing the design. Keeping potential buyers completely in the dark seems risky.
I do agree with your two basic theses, that the ME will create a lot of controversy, and that the visual appearance of the side intake duct will determine to a great degree how well we like the car.
However, GM went bold with the C7’s design and never gave us teaser videos this far out to determine reaction, let alone for them to adjust according to our input, nor will they do such a process for the ME.
GM will never release teaser videos to gauge public reaction, though they will starting around October, release teaser videos of the finished product, and again show us a teaser picture in December — but all for the purpose of creating pre-reveal buzz. At this time, around 10 1/2 months before the car is revealed, the car’s design is 95% locked in, and what’s left is mechanical durability testing of powertrain and perhaps interior components; confirming summer cooling adequacy; dialing in software for the nannies, the shocks, the eLSD and similar); and fine tuning of small increments of aero components, e.g., whether the angle of the front grill blades should be 6 degrees or 6 1/2 degrees, and adjusting the size/number/shape of the diffuser blades, and similar aero component fine adjustments.
Obviously the C8 is going to generate a lot of controversy when it is released, likely next year. Even more obviously, the C8 is going to be compared to other MEs and to the C7, et al. We might as well get used to all the comparisons, controversies and complaints, because they are coming soon.
That said, I think the side scoop of the MP4-12C looks a lot like what we have been speculating about for the C8. It is a very defining characteristic and personally, I like it.
If the side scoop is not done right, the design of the car will fail. So it might be better just to copy the MP4-12C side scoop than try to do something "innovative" that flops. There is no room for failure with the C8, given that the C7 design has been such a success.
At a minimum, the Corvette team should be releasing some teaser photos to gauge reactions before finalizing the design. Keeping potential buyers completely in the dark seems risky.
All good points. I have found that designers and developers will rarely if ever ask for consumer opinions on "design" directly for something like design cues. Sure, they have consumer testing for usability etc. but there is a danger that design opinions may conflict with your design direction, and then you are conflicted whether you should change the design to suit consumer opinion or not.
I have found that in general, most people have very poor taste and do not know what new designs are good or great until they see it and live with it for a while. ( "most" members of this forums opinions excepted/ accepted of course ) Designers need to look into the future and see what tastes will be like in five or 10 years, not when they are being designed so by its very nature the designs need to be ahead of their times which most people are simply not ready to accept so early. Without designers pushing the envelope, as was discussed above, there would be no forward motion, no progress.
I don't think any designer would put out different design variations and ask which was best or more popular. It just gets confusing and puts too much emphasis on a small sampling of consumer opinion. I think what GM does and is doing is watching these boards and automotive websites that discuss these things and listen to the comments carefully. They will then measure and weigh the comments for real concerns versus minor gripes or preferences. They will also have studied in great detail all of the successful cars and brands that came before and picked apart every detail and would have figured out what makes each design work. They were to take this information and the consumer thoughts and reactions kept in the back of their minds and adapt it to their overall design.
They have a long history of designing successful Corvettes and took a major step forward in evolutionary design for the C7. It sounds as if they are about to take a substantial leap into revolutionary design for the C8.
I don't think it will be as extreme as some mid engine design is out there because it needs to reach a wider audience, but I have no doubt it will be a very exciting thing of beauty.
IMO.
I have no doubt it will be a very exciting thing of beauty.
I hope you are right, but even the best, e.g., Ferrari Enzo, make bad designs. NSX seems to be a failure of design too. Corvette is making a huge bet that the C8 will be a home run.
Obviously the C8 is going to generate a lot of controversy when it is released, likely next year. Even more obviously, the C8 is going to be compared to other MEs and to the C7, et al. We might as well get used to all the comparisons, controversies and complaints, because they are coming soon.
That said, I think the side scoop of the MP4-12C looks a lot like what we have been speculating about for the C8. It is a very defining characteristic and personally, I like it.
If the side scoop is not done right, the design of the car will fail. So it might be better just to copy the MP4-12C side scoop than try to do something "innovative" that flops. There is no room for failure with the C8, given that the C7 design has been such a success.
At a minimum, the Corvette team should be releasing some teaser photos to gauge reactions before finalizing the design. Keeping potential buyers completely in the dark seems risky.
We love Vettes and sports cars in general. It is imperative that we compare other sports cars in this genre'. Price point regardless, the new Vette will be compared to and raced against the cars we describe.
Since the only new information received from our intelligence agents is a retractable roof, we might as well have fun. Here is a Vette MP4 with round lights no less.
I have found that in general, most people have very poor taste and do not know what new designs are good or great until they see it and live with it for a while. ( "most" members of this forums opinions excepted/ accepted of course ) Designers need to look into the future and see what tastes will be like in five or 10 years, not when they are being designed so by its very nature the designs need to be ahead of their times which most people are simply not ready to accept so early. Without designers pushing the envelope, as was discussed above, there would be no forward motion, no progress.
Very good observation. Took me many years to like X6 over X5. X5 looks fossil now. It took me many viewings to like C7 over C6 -- but now I love it.
I don't understand how they manage to get this right most of the time, though.
Very good observation. Took me many years to like X6 over X5. X5 looks fossil now. It took me many viewings to like C7 over C6 -- but now I love it.
I don't understand how they manage to get this right most of the time, though.
GM has proven several times though they they do not understand the buying public. People with a couple of bucks in their wallet don't go and buy a Mercedes because it's a Mercedes, they buy it because it looks better and is a better car.
The C7 is controversial, love it or hate it, and has pushed away just as many buyers as hit has brought in. For the same money, they go get a Viper or an M3 or an M4 instead or say to heck with sports cars and get a Land Rover. Looking at more proof of GM's ineptitude there is basically every other car in the GM line up with perhaps the exception of Cadillac. GM makes ugly cars and has for decades. Ford walks all over GM in this department. Remember the Aztec or the Cavalier. These were the cars we made fun of until Daewoo and Kia gave us better things to make fun of. It's a bad day for design when a Daewoo is needed in order to find something lower on the totem pole.
Very good observation. Took me many years to like X6 over X5. X5 looks fossil now. It took me many viewings to like C7 over C6 -- but now I love it.
I don't understand how they manage to get this right most of the time, though.
As noted above by another member...it does't "always" work. There are maniac designers out there!
What you said is exactly right tho. Times change and evolve and so does the eye. People get used to seeing something, some shapes and it becomes familiar and looks"right" When it is changed the eyes first reaction is to reject it as different. But as you say, after a while the old one starts to look dated, the more "new" visual exciting things we see.
With big projects like this Corvette design there is no doubt a lot of input from a lot of people closely involved so you get a sort of internal consumer consensus from a cross section of people that love cars and have vast and diverse knowledge so you get more hits than outright misses. Some may say that they "missed" with the tail of the C7 but they will tell you they pushed this change to steer consumer acceptance and get their eyes ready for new things.
The entire known "package" also influences a persons likes or dislikes. One should ask themselves...do I like the actual "look" of something , or what it represents or can do. Sort of like "ugly" dog breeds, which some "see" as beautiful. It is not the actual looks but the overall understanding of the breed that makes them beautiful in the eye of the beholder.
For cars, are some of these supercars "really" beautiful? Or do we think they are beautiful because of what they can do or what they cost or their exclusivity? The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
These things color perception and need to be thunk about very seriously to make the outcome appear simple .
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 02-26-2018 at 10:54 AM.
GM has proven several times though they they do not understand the buying public. People with a couple of bucks in their wallet don't go and buy a Mercedes because it's a Mercedes, they buy it because it looks better and is a better car.
The C7 is controversial, love it or hate it, and has pushed away just as many buyers as hit has brought in. For the same money, they go get a Viper or an M3 or an M4 instead or say to heck with sports cars and get a Land Rover. Looking at more proof of GM's ineptitude there is basically every other car in the GM line up with perhaps the exception of Cadillac. GM makes ugly cars and has for decades. Ford walks all over GM in this department. Remember the Aztec or the Cavalier. These were the cars we made fun of until Daewoo and Kia gave us better things to make fun of. It's a bad day for design when a Daewoo is needed in order to find something lower on the totem pole.
I agree and we own a C63 AMG and we purchased it because the looks and the performance. GM has the perfect opportunity with the C8 to make something stunning like the Ford GT, something sexy...
02-25-2018, 11:35 AM
...all because someone posted a pic of a McChicken and a Ferrari and mentioned maybe or hopefully it looks like this. My GOD!!! The horror! Thread...ruined. 
it’s a beautiful day folks, life is good. Lighten up.
) Designers need to look into the future and see what tastes will be like in five or 10 years, not when they are being designed so by its very nature the designs need to be ahead of their times which most people are simply not ready to accept so early. Without designers pushing the envelope, as was discussed above, there would be no forward motion, no progress.
