Iker

Let’s assume we have 2 cars, one has hybrid system and the other one has ICE only and both have same weight to power ratio. Which one do you think will perform better in term of acceleration, dynamics, power map, power delivery, weight distribution, cornering, exiting corners, fun to drive..etc?

Does hybrid system really cancel the disadvantage of weight gain by improving performance parameters?

Semifighter18

The X factor of course is the AWD. That is the whole point of the Eray, to give you that AWD and all the benefits that come with it. Even if it's the same power only going to two wheels, electric power via the hybrid engine with instantaneous torque is going to have the advantage. And trust me I am old school ICE all the way! But I have to acknowledge the advantages of electric power in any form.

GOLD72

Bingo.

3LZR21U

Yep. The electric torque gives it a diesel-like push off the line (torque hits way down low). Virtually every stat you listed benefits the AWD configuration of the ER. Bugatti may tip the scales quite a bit, but I don't think you'll hear people saying that it's not a capable car.

RedLS6

A comparison of the Ferrari 296 with the upcoming ZR1 will be interesting relative to that question as both are RWD, both are roughly 60/40 weight distribution, both are turbocharged and both will likely be close in term of power/weight with the Ferrari coming in a little lighter. Ferrari implemented the hybrid drive with a conventional aluminum frame-chassis and still managed to come in lighter than the ICE-only Corvette. The hybrid system "should" have launch and traction control advantages; although an Artura -C8 Z06 drag race doesn't necessarily show that, in the launch.

Bob MacLean

Cause that's what these guys do,, (F1 has been using it for a while) https://www.topspeed.com/the-best-hybrid-supercars
some are not AWD btw.

JABCAT

Except in this case, the electrification and AWD are only good for 0.1 in both 0-60 & 1/4 mi. So a lot more complexity and potential for issues, plus weight for no real performance improvement over the Z06.

foundvettelifeisgood

Also good for drifting, driving in the snow and sneaking out of your girlfriend’s neighborhood.

3LZR21U

You'll note that the ER is the cheapest on that entire list, and the next lowest price car has an MSRP 75k higher.

For performance only, sure. For everything else except dedicated track duties...there's a lot more that the ER offers that makes it a better and more capable choice than the Z06. And no one is arguing that the Z06 isn't a fantastic performance car; because it is. Of course, no one has tested the ER on a smaller, technically focused track with few/no straights...against the Z06 in the same course. It's only been done (thus far) on a track with a considerable straight, where the lower weight of the z06 really edges out the ER easily.

Complexity & potential issues....i say overblown hype and FUD until there is data to support this much ballyhoo'd hypothesis. But the benefit of AWD and comfort cannot be overstated--in a vehicle that will still swat 95% of what you will encounter on the street...without ever using launch control.

JABCAT

Adding awd to a rwd platform and adding an unproven hybrid system is more complexity and potential for issues just by its very nature.

Heck, look at GM's first DCT, they still haven't figured out the issues into it's 5th model year, but I'm sure their first attempt at a hybrid awd sports car will be problem-free.

msm859

GM has made hybrids before and awd cars and sports cars. Following your response to its logical conclusion means GM should not try anything "new". And why would you call the C8 a rwd platform? All the evidence is that they were planning this from day 1. And this design isn't exactly something new. Acura NSX was designed @ 14 years ago - ancient in car life.

3LZR21U

For all we know, GM was testing mules with the hybrid drive system for years. It's not like they couldn't have put it in an SR body and been flogging it around under the radar for eons...well before they put it in a widebody mule for final tweaking. Even without camo, it would have been virtually impossible to tell it from a regular SR--until they started adding things like CCB's and the like. However if the goal was just to test the theory and prove it could be done with synchronizing rpm's and speed--that could have been done well before any of us even saw the first Z06 test mule....

JerryU

Yep adding to what has been said, for about the same power the E-Ray gets ~25% better mpg than the C8 Z06. FWD also allows it to best the 0 to 60 to 2.5 seconds and beat it in the 1/4 mile!

That is why F1 have been "Performance Hybrids" for ~10 years. They are besting the race times of much larger V12's with their 1.6 Liter V6 ~700+hp engines AND 200/250 hp electric motors used when needed! The key is F1 NO LONGER allows refueling in the same length race on some of the same tracks! They have improved the otherwise POOR energy efficiency of an ICE using gasoline.

For the average car only about 15% of the energy is gasoline gets to propel the car forward. Most goes to wasted heat via the engine coolant that heats air, exhaust, which does the same, idling and braking (where that energy also goes to heat!)

BTW my E-Ray does incorporate Stop/Start that helps reduce wasted gasoline when idling! Was talking with two of my neighbors yesterday, my 1st day driving with no rain, who were walking when I stopped as they knew my new Vette was coming. Had the window down talking with them and it started! No big deal as the wife is on her 3rd BMW X5 SUV and all have seamless stop/start. We'll see how seamless the E-Ray is!

Bob MacLean

Thx! can you turn off start/stop with an override button like some of the cars I have?

dw886

There's a button on the left lower portion of the center console, right next to the Charge+ button to toggle the auto start/stop on and off. I'm going to assume it works like my Chevrolet truck, and each time you start the vehicle, it defaults to "Enabled". You'd have to start the vehicle, then click the button, and it would be disabled until the vehicle ignition was turned off. Next time the vehicle is started, it's defaulted back to On, and you'd have to disable it again if desired.

There's a number of aftermarket companies that make things to "disable" the switch permanently (so pressing the button basically doesn't work anymore, and the auto start/stop on the vehicle is permanently disabled when installed, and others (like Autostop Eliminator that I have on my truck) that remember the setting from the last button press, and "re-apply" the setting after the vehicle starts so you don't have to push the button. No idea if these will work with the E-ray or not.

JerryU

Bob, it's so unobtrusive in wife's BMW we never shut it off. I actually heard the starter motor in the E-Ray so not as seamless as he BMW that uses a technique similar to what was none in WWII to start engines when no power was available. BMW appears to capture combustion pressure right after a cylinder ignites and when you lift your foot off the bake the engine starts and is on before your foot can get to the throttle!

I won't go into MGU-H versus HGU-H; BUTI feel a bit like Andy Cowell, Managing Director of Mercedes High Performance Powertrains, who said about F1 planning to eliminate MGU-H (Motor Generator Unit, Heat, the energy saving function that used otherwise wasted turbo energy when boost was not needed.) He said HGU-H provided 60% of the electric energy used to power their F1 cars and contributed 5% of the current engine's thermal efficiency. Quoting: • MGU-H (Motor Generator Unit, Heat, (HGU-H, the energy recover system that uses turbo power when engine air pressure boost is not needed to operate a generator and can also power the turbine compressor with an electric motor) provides 60% of the electric energy used to power the other part of the energy recovery system and contributes 5% of the current engine's thermal efficiency. • We'll have to come up (in 2021 F1 was planning to ban, because of complexity of managing for smaller teams and the really “stupid” but understandable reason - it reduces engine sound) with various systems and devices and that will probably involve burning some fuel through the exhaust, which doesn't feel the most honorable thing to do as an engineer.

IMO it’s better to improve the ICE efficiency, best as possible, before being forced to go to EVs! Yep folks are pushing all EV's because improving ICE efficiency (the 2012 plan) that would have cut CO2 emissions in half is too hard to understand!

3LZR21U

I've said time and again that everything that comes out of an engine except power--is wasted energy. Heat. Noise. All of it.

JerryU

Well aware! Yep canceling minor inconveniences, like V8 to V4, of Stop/Start is what gets folks pushing ONLY EVs. That is not better IMO. What does it hurt not to waste 5 to 11% of the gasoline you buy to shut the car off when idling. Better than an EV IMO!

Here is a Pic I made taking the technical data to make it easy to understand! We can do better!! Note most of the energy in gasoline goes to wasted heat. Only about ~14% of the energy gets to the rear wheels to propel it forward. Dam inefficient!

Bob MacLean

Thanks Jerry, wife has it on her Jaguar FPace and no way to disable it without cutting something.. I just don't like the wear and tear personally. Having 6.2L doing it will drive me nuts.

JerryU

The BMW Service Writer (smart guy) confirmed they are using a simple system rather than always Using the starter motor! He said they have zero starter issues with the newer SUVs.

Much like the V8 to V4 that closes the valves so right after a combustion event in each they retain the combustion pressure- BUT even easier Much like the Coffman Starter used in WWII no need for starter motor! You shut the engine off right after a combustion even (actually in our BMW's any of the 6 cylinders.) Then that retained combustion pressure turns the engine over the instant your foot is off the brake. Frankly most time I hear nothing, and engine is running before my foot can get to the throttle! It can be done.

Also you can use a geared starter like I have in my 8.2 Liter BB in my '34 street rod. It has tight fitting long tube headers are close to the starter motor. Mine is a 4:1 geared starter and uses a small dimeter motor. Turns over very fast. There are ways to reduce wear. Not sure the E-Ray has anything special, we'll see.