When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
Originally Posted by TxLefty
If I was an E-Ray purchaser, I'd rather have the iron brakes. I wouldn't want the replacement costs hanging over my head.
I had 75K miles on my C6 ZR1 when I sold it and the original CCB rotors and pads were still going strong. Most initial owners won't put enough miles or track use on an E-Ray to need to worry about replacement.
I had 75K miles on my C6 ZR1 when I sold it and the original CCB rotors and pads were still going strong. Most initial owners won't put enough miles or track use on an E-Ray to need to worry about replacement.
Same for me upon selling my C6 ZR1 at 55k miles. Worries about CCB for a street driven E-Ray are way over blown.
Geeze, two heating processes that takes days - now we know why they cost so much.
So it seems there is a yes-and-no kind of answer here....
- Iron rotors - bad idea
- CCM rotors - good idea (may not be needed unless you are tracking the car, but won't hurt them)
Geeze, two heating processes that takes days - now we know why they cost so much.
So it seems there is a yes-and-no kind of answer here....
- Iron rotors - bad idea
- CCM rotors - good idea (may not be needed unless you are tracking the car, but won't hurt them)
For a street driven E-Ray, where this Thread question and concern about wanting steel rotors, comes from:
The E-Ray unlike some FWD or AWD cars BUT what some others do uses brakes for torque vectoring when you are accelerating out of an apex for example. i.e. the outside front wheel has to receive more power to keep from oversteering similar to my FWD Tubo Compact. Heck with it, had to do what folks racing Minis (etc) did. When accelerating out of an apex aggressively, apply the emergency brake for a split second to get the rear end to slide out and point the car where I wanted to go before using WOT! If not, when accelerating it just plowed off the road front first! The GM system E-ray control system is much more sophisticated and applies the inside tire brake. That system is used on some other cars and works fine with the downside of wearing brakes. Unless your tracking will not be an issue.
CCM is also about 40 lbs less weight that steel brakes. I big deal on the E-Ray front where Tadge and company said they wanted to keep the same ME balance as the base C8. They also used an expensive magnesium motor housing with high strength aluminum bolts, a Li-Ion instead of lead acid battery- not cheap- to keep front end weight down.
Some folks are looking at an aggressive Tracker Youtuber Video who talks about excessive CCM wear and being expensive to replace and expressing concern. Frankly if you're an aggressive tracking buy a Z06 designed for Track Rats!
Aggressive tracking is NOT where the E-Ray will be best!
It has always been my understanding that slotted or drilled rotors are less about cooling (per say) rather about allow gases to escape that are produced during high demand braking. These gases create brake fade and with the slots or holes if you will allow the gases to escape thus reducing brake fade.
Was I smoking crack when I read this and believed this to be the basis or can someone back me on this?
Was I smoking crack when I read this and believed this to be the basis or can someone back me on this?
You were right ~25 years ago when brake pads contained asbestos. It is a hydrous magnesium silicate! Hydrous means it contains hydrogen combined with oxygen! Read water or can become water! One reason it can stand high heat! So yep that and some other pad compounds outgassed Not today.
Why leather was used for very early brakes, still used for some fireman helmets and why I sell leather covers some buy to protect my patented welding shielding gas hose:
"Leather has unique properties that make it resistant to welding spatter. It contains roughly 20% water which provides heat and spark resistance."
You were right ~25 years ago when brake pads contained asbestos. It is a hydrous magnesium silicate! Hydrous means it contains hydrogen combined with oxygen! Read water or can become water! One reason it can stand high heat! So yep that and some other pad compounds outgassed Not today.
Why leather was used for very early brakes, still used for some fireman helmets and why I sell leather covers some buy to protect my patented welding shielding gas hose:
"Leather has unique properties that make it resistant to welding spatter. It contains roughly 20% water which provides heat and spark resistance."
Leather was used in brakes? Do you some articles on this? I would like to read about that.
Leather was used in breaks? Do you some articles on this? I would like to read about that.
Here is one: The first use of brake pads goes all the way back to the 19th century. Bertha Benz — famous inventor and wife of Mercedes-Benz founder Karl Benz — is credited with creating the first brake pads out of leather for an early patent of their automobile in 1888.
SIDEBAR
But here is a fun one from my direct experience: Background I just found: The clutch on the Michigan is called a “leather cone clutch”. This type of clutch was used on many early cars that had 3 and 4 speed manual transmissions (there were no automatic transmissions in 1912). To say this clutch mechanism is basic is a bit of an understatement. A tapered leather covered disk is jammed into the back of the flywheel and the drive-train is engaged. Push the clutch pedal down and the disk is moved away from the flywheel.
My Fun Experience:
We sold our leveraged buyout business to the largest welding company (Swedish ESAB) in the Word in 1989. I stayed as VP Marketing for ~10 years. They, like half of Sweden, were owned by the Wallenbergs! They wanted money to offset a bad medical appliance company acquisition (as I recall.) In the early 1990's sold it to a British mostly financial company!
My boss, the US President at the time, had been with a prior US company owned by ESAB. Great person but no car guy! Turned out the CEO from the UK company was a mechanical engineer and a car guy! In his British subtil way he would bust my bosses chops. But I got a long fine with him because we would talk car's (he would go to Indy for the race and I had to prepare for his visit.)
During one visit he mentioned he was talking his 1904 Peugeot on the London to Brighton car race (the longest running race, some 60 miles I had read about.) I asked did he have to change the clutch. With a surprised look in his British accent said "ow'd you know?" That lead to a long discussion of the difficulty of the race and how he and his friend who road as the "mechanic" changed the leather clutch!
The Brit loved the US for our innovations like the plastic dry air bubbles he used for his vintage Jag and other vintage cars to protect from the humid, always raining UK weather!
Like many British financial oriented companies it was sold to another and I retired! Consulated for years as they supported my volunteer work with our industry tech society and helping to defend a billion $+ class action industry welding fume lawsuit. It was then acquired by a US acquisition type company and last year went public!
Here is one: The first use of brake pads goes all the way back to the 19th century. Bertha Benz — famous inventor and wife of Mercedes-Benz founder Karl Benz — is credited with creating the first brake pads out of leather for an early patent of their automobile in 1888.
SIDEBAR
But here is a fun one from my direct experience: Background I just found: The clutch on the Michigan is called a “leather cone clutch”. This type of clutch was used on many early cars that had 3 and 4 speed manual transmissions (there were no automatic transmissions in 1912). To say this clutch mechanism is basic is a bit of an understatement. A tapered leather covered disk is jammed into the back of the flywheel and the drive-train is engaged. Push the clutch pedal down and the disk is moved away from the flywheel.
My Fun Experience:
We sold our leveraged buyout business to the largest welding company (Swedish ESAB) in the Word in 1989. I stayed as VP Marketing for ~10 years. They, like half of Sweden, were owned by the Wallenbergs! They wanted money to offset a bad medical appliance company acquisition (as I recall.) In the early 1990's sold it to a British mostly financial company!
My boss, the US President at the time, had been with a prior US company owned by ESAB. Great person but no car guy! Turned out the CEO from the UK company was a mechanical engineer and a car guy! In his British subtil way he would bust my bosses chops. But I got a long fine with him because we would talk car's (he would go to Indy for the race and I had to prepare for his visit.)
During one visit he mentioned he was talking his 1904 Peugeot on the London to Brighton car race (the longest running race, some 60 miles I had read about.) I asked did he have to change the clutch. With a surprised look in his British accent said "ow'd you know?" That lead to a long discussion of the difficulty of the race and how he and his friend who road as the "mechanic" changed the leather clutch!
The Brit loved the US for our innovations like the plastic dry air bubbles he used for his vintage Jag and other vintage cars to protect from the humid, always raining UK weather!
Like many British financial oriented companies it was sold to another and I retired! Consulated for years as they supported my volunteer work with our industry tech society and helping to defend a billion $+ class action industry welding fume lawsuit. It was then acquired by a US acquisition type company and last year went public!
Here is one: The first use of brake pads goes all the way back to the 19th century. Bertha Benz — famous inventor and wife of Mercedes-Benz founder Karl Benz — is credited with creating the first brake pads out of leather for an early patent of their automobile in 1888.
Just for kicks, we should fab up a set of vintage leather brake pads for the C8 and take it to a airstrip to test the 60 to 0 mph stopping distance.
We can start a poll to see what the most accurate guess is. 😂
Yep, never been a dull moment! Even at 80, still have a part time welding related Internet business that cuts otherwise wasted Argon shielding gas use in half. Still active in two tech societies. Playing with my cars also keeps me busy.
Frankly much more fun than helping my wife with her >thousand plants in the yard! I remind her what I do pays for folks she hires to do that! Got rid of all grass that needs cutting >15 years ago. But keeping weeds out of mondo & dwarf mondo grass and water features front an back takes effort! Too hot and humid in NE SC in the summer. Dog and I prefer AC!
^^^^
Love the entrepreneurial no choice methods! No need for a large wrench on that large nut (which you don't have.) A chisel and small sledgehammer worked fine!
Leather does have some unique properties modern material can't beat.
I sell a Leather cable cover strictly to support our main patented hose product. It's an old design made from leather scrapes with snaps. Many use modern zippered Nylon hose covers but revert back to leather when welding sparks burn thru the Nylon and gas hose!
^^^^
Love the entrepreneurial no choice methods! No need for a large wrench on that large nut (which you don't have.) A chisel and small sledgehammer worked fine!
Leather does have some unique properties modern material can't beat.
Makes me wonder how they torqued it back on And I loved the dirty oil poured back in from the dirty bucket. But, you can learn a lot when you don't have a lot and those guys make do with very little. I take my teenage son to the state fair to look at the old tractors, to try to show him how they solved problems decades ago, without modern materials or methods. Early 1900's tractor, 2 external pulleys, they need to transfer power from one to the other, and no chains or rubber belts. He was stumped on how they connected them. A leather belt.
NASCAR uses what they use because of the rules. Carbon Ceramic or Carbon- Carbon brakes are functional, and NASCAR doesn't have them. Fuel Injection has been functional and superior to carbs for decades, and yet NASCAR used carbs until recently. Your guy was ignorant. Note NASCAR appears to use slotted rotors. Also said to allow off gassing.
As others have said, not all holes are drilled, some are cast in.
LOL, using "NASCAR" as an argument for innovation! LOL!
A 3500# tank, rolling around an oval, only turning left....LOL!
Hey NASCRAP, wanna make your racing exciting? Cut the car weight in half.
LOL, using "NASCAR" as an argument for innovation! LOL!
A 3500# tank, rolling around an oval, only turning left....LOL!
Hey NASCRAP, wanna make your racing exciting? Cut the car weight in half.
Right now, it's the same as any other soap-opera.
You are out of date! They have a number of road races and can even run in light rain! In Chicago this year for a "street race" rain got too heavy!
Yep, even in the 1990's when we sponsored the Richard Petty team (which we did for >15 years as well as the Be Petty Driving Experience) Dale Inman, Team Manger, showed me a brake fluid recirculator NASCAR approved, and they used for road races. No pumps all self-contained. I remember, as asked how it worked and he said, see all the seals on the bolts. If any are broken on this rented unit we forfeit the big buck guarantee saying we will not open!
BTW also follow drag racing where I watched Don Garlits hit 8.36 seconds in the 1/4 mile in 1958 at Montgomery NY strip. He drove with what is now called Swap Fox I before he used a blower on this Chrysler Hemi. Just eight '97s on a log manifold! Still follow and watched (on TV) as John Force's daughter broke the speed recorded in Denver this year going 337 mph in 1000 feet. Yep they stopped the fuel cars having to go the full 1330 some years ago when speeds got too high to stop at many tracks!
Been following F1 before Andretti (Senior) was winning races. Have not missed a race (on TV) for many years! Even if watching Red Bull dominate for the past few is a bit anticlimactic and as you say a bit like a soap opera! Qualifying is better!
Yep follow all types of racing. Pic upper left is my Cousin in pic with Dale Inman a at Rockingham NASCAR race a few years ago. Dale, 83 at the time, recalled when he got me to give them ~40 new welding and Plasma cutting machines when we changed brands and colors. The ones in Level Cross went to the Be Petty driving school fabrication shop in Charlotte.
We trained the folks building the Be Petty cars (which are actually fiberglass on a mostly square tubing frame.) They rebuild "one race use" NASCAR engines. They painted a car with our logo and colors used in the schools.
07-28-2023, 07:21 PM
Same for me upon selling my C6 ZR1 at 55k miles. Worries about CCB for a street driven E-Ray are way over blown.
And I loved the dirty oil poured back in from the dirty bucket. But, you can learn a lot when you don't have a lot and those guys make do with very little. I take my teenage son to the state fair to look at the old tractors, to try to show him how they solved problems decades ago, without modern materials or methods. Early 1900's tractor, 2 external pulleys, they need to transfer power from one to the other, and no chains or rubber belts. He was stumped on how they connected them. A leather belt. 
