JerryU

Hmm, I looked at some of your comments and you eaither don't undersrand that F1 has about doubled the effciency of their ICE with an electric "performcne hybrid" combined ~900 hp. Or perhaps you have not ever looked at what Ferrari is doing? The SF90 Stradale has 1000 total hp with 220 being electric the remainer from a 4 Liter V8. It's now also a plug in hybrid. Ferrrari understands the World will not allow "pure gasoline" engine cars to exist. Their CEO said 60% would be hybrids in 2022 (albeit that was before the Pandemic.)

This old dude likes ICEs. My ProStreet Rod has a ~550 hp 8.2 Liter BB; BUT I also know the average ICE is dam inefficient. About 15% of the energy in the gas you use goes to propell the car forward! The remainder goes into heat, directly or due to friction! That pure gasoline engine car has to be improved OR soon we'll be required by law to have only EVs!

msm859

So I can almost guarantee you that your "maxed out" panel is not part of the equation - unless you want to tell us you have 60 amp service. You could charge any EV with a simple 20 amp circuit (240 volt preferred) unless you are commuting over 50 miles a day. And with a PHEV that would not even matter.

Z0HS1CK

This is mandatory for a level 2 charger correct?

I'm re-doing my panel next summer to accommodate a tesla i want to get next year.

msm859

If you are getting a full BEV i.e Tesla and not a PHEV i.e plug in hybrid, you would probably want more amps than 20. I have a Tesla wall charger and am wired to add a second charger - not sure if it would be a Tesla or something else. I am using a 50 amp breaker which allows me to charge at 40 amps (with my wiring I could technically use a 60 amp breaker, but it is better to be oversized). You have to deduct 20% for a continual load. With a Tesla Model X that gives me @ 30 miles per hour of charging - more than enough.

MYROAD

No, I have 200 amp service. However it's a large house (five bedrooms, 3 1/2 baths, living room, dining room, family room, library, rec room with kitchen, workshop, 2 car garage). Central Air: 50amps, Oven 40 amps, Dryer 40 amps, Jacuzzi (heated) 30 Amps, Cooktop 30 Amps, 3 refrigerators, 2 HEPA air filtration systems, lots of electronics, central humidifier, 3 big screen TV;s. . Our plug-in hybrid is only charging at 1.2 KW (Level 1, adequate for overnight charge). Where can I get the extra recommended 40 AMPS for Level 2 charging?

msm859

So that is not the way electric load works (it is for natural gas). You will be setting your charger to start at 1:00 a.m. in the morning. At that time you will be using none of those high load utilities - except maybe AC at times depending were you live. However, even those are not a continuous high load. Your 200 amp service is more than adequate - that is what I have and like I said I am wired to have 2 separate level 2 chargers - now it is likely once I have that I will schedule them to charge at different times - it is a rare occasion when I have to charge for more than 5 hours. Also have 2 AC units, induction cooktop, heat pump water heater and multiple pumps for my radiant heat system, swimming pool etc.. You could theoretically run 160 amps continuous load (more than 3 hours) and not worry.

JerryU

Hmm, not a fan of EV's being "forced upon us" for other reasons BUT we have been on what all industry uses, Demand Power for the 37 years we have lived in SC. We pay less for off peak (nights, weekends and holidays) when industry is not using power that we do in the daytime. We also pay a lot for the peak 15 minutes in any month (we have a special meter that measures all that.) We typically save $500/yr. Our dishwasher is set to run with a time delay, wife washes cloths at evening rates. It's usually cooler at night so our two heat pumps don't run as much. If she cleans the oven (takes a lot of power) at night. The peak in your home is probably in the daytime! Just charge your car between say 11PM and 5 AM, not many lights on at that time. Doubt your using your 40 amp oven or cooktop between 11PM and 5 AM! Your car charging could be put on a timer.

In fac,t talked with a fellow in Arizona who was on Demand Power and he had a computer type control that limited the peak demand by shutting off circuit breakers on "stuff" like a nonessential Jacuzzi if it went beyond a level he set! Heck 35 years ago our computer at work automatically did the same to keep our peak daytime loads down cutting our cost of the peak 15 minutes in a month. Keeps the Power Company from having to build more power plants to meet peak demand and they reward you for helping with lower prices for power!

Zaro Tundov

That's just an early ZO6 test car from before they redesigned the exhaust to have center outlets. You can even see where a large wing was mounted but was removed for testing on public roads.

GM Authority have a terrible track record on these C8 variants. They even described the carbon fiber wheels on the ZO6 as the base wheel option, lol. This was well after the set of carbon fiber wheels were sold on eBay. They get some good photos but don't count on their interpretation of them.

lostsoul

I dont know.. Im all screwed with the EV mind games. I like the Tech but its the politics and money grubbing shell game that turns people off. They are forcing solar on new houses(ca) and pushed people to go that route and now they are trying to pass new bills to charge solar owners more. There are incentives all over but confusing as hell on some. Some will even help pay for the charger to be installed. As for the tax credit it will probably be for "plug-in" hybrids which I doubt the e-ray will be. Just like so much other stuff out there with good intentions there are a-holes to rob and rig the system to the rich advantage. We the people are their damn annuity's =-/ .

St!ngray

You do not have to add any breakers specially if your dryer is in the garage, just get either a manual or smart splitter. Get a wall box or Blink 240 home charger and with the splitter you connect one side to the dryer the other to the charger. The Wall Box charger sells for around $679.00 (40+ amps) and the Blink is $549.00 (30+ amps).

Kodiak Bear

Recently Goodyear announce performance tires for EVs. Michelin had announced their EV performance tires some months ago. What's a EV performance tire? A tire than can deliver life span and handing characteristics matching those on current IC only vehicles.

Does the tire know the means of propulsion?

NO

What the tire knows is that EVs weigh in the 5000 lbs range vs the 4000lbs range for the IC only vehicle.

IMO, The key to the eRay is weight management!!!

RedLS6

The "EV performance tires" target different specs for load capacity and sidewall strength, application of high torque, and also target lower road noise since EV's tend to be quieter inside. So, slightly different construction methods and materials........and of course, marketing.

LukeyW

Weight management is a big. I'm guessing exactly how much weight hinges on the nature of the E-Ray's drive train. Will the E-Ray be:
- All electric?
- Hybrid with an emphasis on MPG?
- Hybrid with an emphasis on performance and all wheel propulsion?

I have no idea, but I've been hearing for the last few years the E-Ray's drivetrain will be blended with an emphasis on performance and power to all wheels. It won't be just like the NSX, but generally the same idea. If this is the case I think the curb weight will be more than the Z06/Z07, but not a full on brick. A quick google lists the NSX curb weight at 3,878 lbs. I'm thinking the E-Ray will be more, but by how much?

JerryU

^^^^
Hmm, I'll post the pic I have been since it was leaked in an article November 2019! That has been reinforced several times, a few recently. One by a highly respected individual (writer/engineer with inside contacts at GM) in an SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) International article. I have been following this closely since Andy Pilgrim (former Corvette/Caddy race car driver who works out of the Corvette Museum ) leaked in an interview that there would be a FWD electric C8 in a February 2019.

The only differences from latest reports are that 114 hp motor is two 50 hp motors mounted back to back. (makes sense as they can easily be controlled separately as required when accelerating out of a apex.) That 1.92 kWh battery makes it a "perforce only" hybrid like some current Ferraris. IMO that is because MOST sports car folks are not looking for mpg; only Governments! It's just a question of time when some will insist by LAW and a large battery pack can be installed and the ICE can be turned off until the electric motors brings it to say 30 mph! Ferrari and GM are not going to take the blame until required by Law! BUT they are ready. heck IMO Ferrari new that in 2013 and decided to only have DCT, no standard shifts. A computer controlling what gear the car is in when a full mpg hybrid is needed!

So the C8 performance hybrid, like F1, can have a small battery. Someone said that ~2 kWh battery might weight as little as 25 lbs. Doubt ~100 hp short term use for performance electric motor will weight too much (the ~200 hp F1 motors are light.) We'll have to see how much total weight is added.

Sure when the "government" beit Federal, CA one in Europe, dictates higher mpg required they will just put in a larger battery pack and implement the software already designed! . The Corvette can get ~40 mpg. Have a PDF to show how that was possible and in fact was to be a requirement by a planned LAW BUT stopped by a pen in January 2017! Can't wait to get mine!

Pic is from leaked 2019 article. Words were superimposed by me from that article. Have posted many times. Long article, lots more detail like the forked coilover front upright that allow the axle to enter the front uprights. Yep most C8s would have required to have ~40 mpg in 2025 if the planned law was not stopped with a pen in January 2017! Since that article was leaked GM has said it will be called E-Ray.

Kodiak Bear

Here we go again!

That pic has gotten you a LOT of "mileage". All good "mileage"!!!

JerryU

^^^
Yep, will have to update my PDF to include the major increases in mpg requirements issued this past Monday. It's does not appear to be by car family as the law that was to go into effect in 2017 IF it had not been stopped by a pen (see pic!) New pen now!

"This past Monday the Biden administration announced raising vehicle mileage standards starting in the 2023, reaching an industry-wide target of 40 miles per gallon by 2026 — 25% higher than a rule finalized by prior administration last year.
However some objected like Tesla who wanted it higher (along with some environmentalists who want zero emissions!) In fact part of Tesla business is selling credits to manufacturers in order to meet emission regulations. Tesla has sold $2.69 billion worth of EV credits since 2019 tighten restrictions would help it sell credits at a higher price."So far it looks like a simple fine for the manufacturer on average production unlike the prior 1174 page document that defined requirements by car family. The “Corvette Family" required ~40 mph. Some smaller grocery getters even higher (see composite pic from that 1174 page doc that was going to be law starting 2017 and reaching the ~40 for Corvettes in 2025.) Note this was not a gas guzzler tax it was a large fine on the manufacturer. The zero CO2 zealots are not going to let you destroy the World by paying money! So looks like Ferrari can buy credits and doesn’t have to make all hybrids (at least for the US, may have to for Europe.)
I'll update the PDF I stated when you posted that article that contained that pic when the 40 mpg details are available! This is it in current one updated a month ago: C8_FWD_Hybrid.pdf (netwelding.com)


This was the Law planned to go into effect in 2017 until it was stopped with a pen. It defined requirements my "car family" and the Corvette had to achieve 39.8 mpg in 2025! Note a grocery getter like the Toyota Corolla had to get 60.8 mpg! It was based on mostly existing technology and essentially requiring hybrids for all cars and light trucks. Note as the new 40 mpg it's based on the EPA test of combined city and highway, which most don't achieve in practice.

Jeff V.

And Jerry is at it with his incorrectly cited report again.

msm859

Ok, I will bite - again. A 1.92 kWh battery would be a COMPLETE miss on GM's part. For an extra $1000 in costs they could use a 8+ kWh battery. I suspect for another $1,000 they could increase the electric motors to @180 hp instead of 100. Making it a PHEV would add probably less than $500. So for an increased costs of @$2500 they could have FAR better performance - on the street AND have a MPGe of over 50 miles. I suspect if you put them side by side and put a price difference of $5,000 (so GM makes more profit) the PHEV with a larger battery would blow your proposed version out of the water in sales.

MYROAD

I totally agree and would love to see the E-Ray as a plug-in hybrid with higher battery capacity. However, I doubt it for a couple of reasons. First, GM won't want an E-Ray with better performance that the Z06 (although the increased weight will actually reduce performance significantly). Second, speaking of weight. My wife's Tucson SEL plug-in weighs 4081 lbs, with a 13.8kwh battery. The non-hybrid Tucson SEL Weighs 3494lbs, almost 600bs less. I'm curious how much additional weight an 8+ kwh battery and plug-in capability would add to the E-Ray's weight. I'm guessing it would be at least 300lbs, perhaps 400. Personally, I'm more interested in performance than being able to drive it on electric power only. The PHEV tax credit would be nice, though.

Z0HS1CK

I want a tesla as my first EV. I don't see any other manufacturers offering what they offer for the price.

I know nothing about how this works. But what do i have to do so my house doesn't blow up?

Put a 40amp 240v source in my panel? I'm only doing 1 EV. I just want the level 2 charging.