ZR1 at Motor Trends Best Drivers Car Test at Laguna Seca Part 2
09-19-2018, 03:43 PM
#101
Le Mans Master
09-19-2018, 05:19 PM
#102
V10LEE
09-19-2018, 05:24 PM
#103
Melting Slicks
Check out the Lightning Lap thread. Almost the complete opposite except for the GT2RS. Not sure why we are seeing such a disparity on lap times, comparatively, from different tracks and drivers. ZR1 was about 5 sec faster than when C&D tested the ACR.
Last edited by racerns; 09-19-2018 at 05:26 PM.
09-19-2018, 05:36 PM
#104
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Merritt Island Florida
Posts: 2,225
Received 241 Likes
on
145 Posts
Lightning lap two cars took the old ZR1 track record of 2.41, The ZR1 with 2.39.5, and GT2 RS 2.37.8...... And check out why... GT2 RS has the new cup2 R tire not available for anyone else right now .
720 S 2.44 :-)
Ford GT 2.45.5
Porsche GT3 2.47
So whats going on here ? ZR1 with cup2 R tires would match a GT2 RS... i think :-)
09-19-2018, 05:44 PM
#105
Melting Slicks
My point also
Lightning lap two cars took the old ZR1 track record of 2.41, The ZR1 with 2.39.5, and GT2 RS 2.37.8...... And check out why... GT2 RS has the new cup2 R tire not available for anyone else right now .
720 S 2.44 :-)
Ford GT 2.45.5
Porsche GT3 2.47
So whats going on here ? ZR1 with cup2 R tires would match a GT2 RS... i think :-)
Lightning lap two cars took the old ZR1 track record of 2.41, The ZR1 with 2.39.5, and GT2 RS 2.37.8...... And check out why... GT2 RS has the new cup2 R tire not available for anyone else right now .
720 S 2.44 :-)
Ford GT 2.45.5
Porsche GT3 2.47
So whats going on here ? ZR1 with cup2 R tires would match a GT2 RS... i think :-)
09-19-2018, 05:58 PM
#106
Le Mans Master
My point also
Lightning lap two cars took the old ZR1 track record of 2.41, The ZR1 with 2.39.5, and GT2 RS 2.37.8...... And check out why... GT2 RS has the new cup2 R tire not available for anyone else right now .
720 S 2.44 :-)
Ford GT 2.45.5
Porsche GT3 2.47
So whats going on here ? ZR1 with cup2 R tires would match a GT2 RS... i think :-)
Lightning lap two cars took the old ZR1 track record of 2.41, The ZR1 with 2.39.5, and GT2 RS 2.37.8...... And check out why... GT2 RS has the new cup2 R tire not available for anyone else right now .
720 S 2.44 :-)
Ford GT 2.45.5
Porsche GT3 2.47
So whats going on here ? ZR1 with cup2 R tires would match a GT2 RS... i think :-)
09-19-2018, 06:06 PM
#107
V10LEE
The GT2RS and the ACR Viper are about equal at Laguna Seca. Would love to See both cars tested same day with Randy Pobst.
Last edited by LEE427; 09-19-2018 at 06:06 PM.
09-19-2018, 06:20 PM
#108
I'm a realist, you cannot compare magazine run times vs factory backed run times.
The ACR's 1:28 lap was done after using a truck load of Kumho tires, SRT team was there dialing that car in. I think any factory done time has to be taken with a grain of salt. Had Porsche done their own attempt with the GT2RS, I guarantee you it will run 1:27 or less. In fact, I believe Porsche is taking their modified 919 racecar to Laguna Seca (if they arent there already) and attempting a world record run. I bet it does it in under 1 minute. Judging from their Spa time taking the record from current F1 cars. And F1 recently taking the record back when they had a race there back in August.
09-19-2018, 06:23 PM
#109
V10LEE
As much as I looove the ACR and own a Viper myself.
I'm a realist, you cannot compare magazine run times vs factory backed run times.
The ACR's 1:28 lap was done after using a truck load of Kumho tires, SRT team was there dialing that car in. I think any factory done time has to be taken with a grain of salt. Had Porsche done their own attempt with the GT2RS, I guarantee you it will run 1:27 or less. In fact, I believe Porsche is taking their modified 919 racecar to Laguna Seca (if they arent there already) and attempting a world record run. I bet it does it in under 1 minute. Judging from their Spa time taking the record from current F1 cars. And F1 recently taking the record back when they had a race there back in August.
I'm a realist, you cannot compare magazine run times vs factory backed run times.
The ACR's 1:28 lap was done after using a truck load of Kumho tires, SRT team was there dialing that car in. I think any factory done time has to be taken with a grain of salt. Had Porsche done their own attempt with the GT2RS, I guarantee you it will run 1:27 or less. In fact, I believe Porsche is taking their modified 919 racecar to Laguna Seca (if they arent there already) and attempting a world record run. I bet it does it in under 1 minute. Judging from their Spa time taking the record from current F1 cars. And F1 recently taking the record back when they had a race there back in August.
09-19-2018, 06:41 PM
#110
Drifting
A few comments,
I am surprised to see the ZR1 4 seconds back... and only a 1/2 second quicker than the Z06. That seems tough to believe. But it must be LS is more of a handling track... and VIR more of a HP track?
I do agree, ACR is one of the best track cars, bang for the buck... really sets the bar high for 'much newer' and higher HP cars to work at beating... I am impressed.
I think the ZR1 will be fine at wide open, higher speed tracks... if it's forced into the technical stuff... the ZR1's weight is going to hurt.
I am glad to see it represent at VIR so well!
Best Regards,
Dave
I am surprised to see the ZR1 4 seconds back... and only a 1/2 second quicker than the Z06. That seems tough to believe. But it must be LS is more of a handling track... and VIR more of a HP track?
I do agree, ACR is one of the best track cars, bang for the buck... really sets the bar high for 'much newer' and higher HP cars to work at beating... I am impressed.
I think the ZR1 will be fine at wide open, higher speed tracks... if it's forced into the technical stuff... the ZR1's weight is going to hurt.
I am glad to see it represent at VIR so well!
Best Regards,
Dave
09-19-2018, 07:20 PM
#111
Guys guys guys...Keep in mind that Laguna Seca was originally designed to be a MOTORCYCLE track. The LONGEST running professional racing series on Laguna Seca is MOTOGP for a reason. Unlike your typical race track, Laguna Seca has little to no camber in a lot of its turns. In fact, for water run-off purposes a few turns actually have a slight positive camber in some of the turns.
Laguna rewards cars that are smaller (like motorcycles), nimble, with quick and easy rotation because more than 1/2 of the turns are the straight-line brake, turn, power out variety. Doesn't matter if your chassis has great balance or transfers weight side to side well, because there are no esses and complicated, complex combo turns except for 2. And of the 2 longest straights on the track, BOTH are uphill runs with one that goes up 3 stories before the corkscrew drop. So two things are king at Laguna: Horsepower, and the ability to lay it down. If what some of the article is saying is true, that the ZR1 struggles with wheel-spin coming out of turns, it's going to struggle at Laguna.
Which explains why the rear engine 911 is faster. But it doesn't explain 4 seconds faster. I mean, the gap between the ZR1 and the Grand Sport is 3 seconds and change, and there's a 300+ HP difference there.
Laguna rewards cars that are smaller (like motorcycles), nimble, with quick and easy rotation because more than 1/2 of the turns are the straight-line brake, turn, power out variety. Doesn't matter if your chassis has great balance or transfers weight side to side well, because there are no esses and complicated, complex combo turns except for 2. And of the 2 longest straights on the track, BOTH are uphill runs with one that goes up 3 stories before the corkscrew drop. So two things are king at Laguna: Horsepower, and the ability to lay it down. If what some of the article is saying is true, that the ZR1 struggles with wheel-spin coming out of turns, it's going to struggle at Laguna.
Which explains why the rear engine 911 is faster. But it doesn't explain 4 seconds faster. I mean, the gap between the ZR1 and the Grand Sport is 3 seconds and change, and there's a 300+ HP difference there.
The following users liked this post:
Telepierre (09-21-2018)
09-19-2018, 07:51 PM
#112
My point also
Lightning lap two cars took the old ZR1 track record of 2.41, The ZR1 with 2.39.5, and GT2 RS 2.37.8...... And check out why... GT2 RS has the new cup2 R tire not available for anyone else right now .
720 S 2.44 :-)
Ford GT 2.45.5
Porsche GT3 2.47
So whats going on here ? ZR1 with cup2 R tires would match a GT2 RS... i think :-)
Lightning lap two cars took the old ZR1 track record of 2.41, The ZR1 with 2.39.5, and GT2 RS 2.37.8...... And check out why... GT2 RS has the new cup2 R tire not available for anyone else right now .
720 S 2.44 :-)
Ford GT 2.45.5
Porsche GT3 2.47
So whats going on here ? ZR1 with cup2 R tires would match a GT2 RS... i think :-)
09-19-2018, 08:57 PM
#113
Safety Car
09-19-2018, 09:01 PM
#114
Safety Car
Guys guys guys...Keep in mind that Laguna Seca was originally designed to be a MOTORCYCLE track. The LONGEST running professional racing series on Laguna Seca is MOTOGP for a reason. Unlike your typical race track, Laguna Seca has little to no camber in a lot of its turns. In fact, for water run-off purposes a few turns actually have a slight positive camber in some of the turns.
Laguna rewards cars that are smaller (like motorcycles), nimble, with quick and easy rotation because more than 1/2 of the turns are the straight-line brake, turn, power out variety. Doesn't matter if your chassis has great balance or transfers weight side to side well, because there are no esses and complicated, complex combo turns except for 2. And of the 2 longest straights on the track, BOTH are uphill runs with one that goes up 3 stories before the corkscrew drop. So two things are king at Laguna: Horsepower, and the ability to lay it down. If what some of the article is saying is true, that the ZR1 struggles with wheel-spin coming out of turns, it's going to struggle at Laguna.
Which explains why the rear engine 911 is faster. But it doesn't explain 4 seconds faster. I mean, the gap between the ZR1 and the Grand Sport is 3 seconds and change, and there's a 300+ HP difference there.
Laguna rewards cars that are smaller (like motorcycles), nimble, with quick and easy rotation because more than 1/2 of the turns are the straight-line brake, turn, power out variety. Doesn't matter if your chassis has great balance or transfers weight side to side well, because there are no esses and complicated, complex combo turns except for 2. And of the 2 longest straights on the track, BOTH are uphill runs with one that goes up 3 stories before the corkscrew drop. So two things are king at Laguna: Horsepower, and the ability to lay it down. If what some of the article is saying is true, that the ZR1 struggles with wheel-spin coming out of turns, it's going to struggle at Laguna.
Which explains why the rear engine 911 is faster. But it doesn't explain 4 seconds faster. I mean, the gap between the ZR1 and the Grand Sport is 3 seconds and change, and there's a 300+ HP difference there.
The ZR1 performed poorly, there is no other way to put it.
09-19-2018, 09:10 PM
#115
Safety Car
This is pure speculation but I think manufacturers give money for lap records. Either that or the factory test cars are that much better than the mag test cars (which usually have engineers following them around for tests).
Case 1
Remember when Randy drove the early Gen V Vipers and they were slower than the C6ZR1? The Viper boys pitched a fit, Ralph Giles himself called Randy scared. They then had a private test and Randy picked up almost 2 seconds in the same cars and beat the ZR1.
Case 2
In reverse order SRT had Randy test the ACR and set the lap record at Laguna of 1:28. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure he beat SRT hot shoe Chris Winkler there. But when he tested the car for the comparo, it only ran 1:30. That's a huge difference.
Case 3
Randy sets lap record driving the ZR1 for GM. But when driving for magazines (Laguna, Willow) he's relatively much slower.
Maybe Randy dials it back to set times more attainable by average Joe's unless put in kill mode by the manufacturer, but there is clearly something IMO.
That being said what would the GT2 RS do with some factory push from Porsche. That would be nuts if there is similarly more time in that thing.
Case 1
Remember when Randy drove the early Gen V Vipers and they were slower than the C6ZR1? The Viper boys pitched a fit, Ralph Giles himself called Randy scared. They then had a private test and Randy picked up almost 2 seconds in the same cars and beat the ZR1.
Case 2
In reverse order SRT had Randy test the ACR and set the lap record at Laguna of 1:28. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure he beat SRT hot shoe Chris Winkler there. But when he tested the car for the comparo, it only ran 1:30. That's a huge difference.
Case 3
Randy sets lap record driving the ZR1 for GM. But when driving for magazines (Laguna, Willow) he's relatively much slower.
Maybe Randy dials it back to set times more attainable by average Joe's unless put in kill mode by the manufacturer, but there is clearly something IMO.
That being said what would the GT2 RS do with some factory push from Porsche. That would be nuts if there is similarly more time in that thing.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-19-2018 at 09:13 PM.
09-19-2018, 09:43 PM
#116
This is pure speculation but I think manufacturers give money for lap records. Either that or the factory test cars are that much better than the mag test cars (which usually have engineers following them around for tests).
Case 1
Remember when Randy drove the early Gen V Vipers and they were slower than the C6ZR1? The Viper boys pitched a fit, Ralph Giles himself called Randy scared. They then had a private test and Randy picked up almost 2 seconds in the same cars and beat the ZR1.
Case 2
In reverse order SRT had Randy test the ACR and set the lap record at Laguna of 1:28. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure he beat SRT hot shoe Chris Winkler there. But when he tested the car for the comparo, it only ran 1:30. That's a huge difference.
Case 3
Randy sets lap record driving the ZR1 for GM. But when driving for magazines (Laguna, Willow) he's relatively much slower.
Maybe Randy dials it back to set times more attainable by average Joe's unless put in kill mode by the manufacturer, but there is clearly something IMO.
That being said what would the GT2 RS do with some factory push from Porsche. That would be nuts if there is similarly more time in that thing.
Case 1
Remember when Randy drove the early Gen V Vipers and they were slower than the C6ZR1? The Viper boys pitched a fit, Ralph Giles himself called Randy scared. They then had a private test and Randy picked up almost 2 seconds in the same cars and beat the ZR1.
Case 2
In reverse order SRT had Randy test the ACR and set the lap record at Laguna of 1:28. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure he beat SRT hot shoe Chris Winkler there. But when he tested the car for the comparo, it only ran 1:30. That's a huge difference.
Case 3
Randy sets lap record driving the ZR1 for GM. But when driving for magazines (Laguna, Willow) he's relatively much slower.
Maybe Randy dials it back to set times more attainable by average Joe's unless put in kill mode by the manufacturer, but there is clearly something IMO.
That being said what would the GT2 RS do with some factory push from Porsche. That would be nuts if there is similarly more time in that thing.
09-19-2018, 09:51 PM
#117
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Mar 1999
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 10,088
Received 3,841 Likes
on
1,157 Posts
"Ask Tadge" Producer
Case 3
Randy sets lap record driving the ZR1 for GM. But when driving for magazines (Laguna, Willow) he's relatively much slower.
Maybe Randy dials it back to set times more attainable by average Joe's unless put in kill mode by the manufacturer, but there is clearly something IMO.
Randy sets lap record driving the ZR1 for GM. But when driving for magazines (Laguna, Willow) he's relatively much slower.
Maybe Randy dials it back to set times more attainable by average Joe's unless put in kill mode by the manufacturer, but there is clearly something IMO.
09-19-2018, 09:58 PM
#118
Safety Car
Tire tides change, it's part of the game. Porsche had fastest in the early 2000's wihh the first streetable factory rcomp cup tires. Then Nissan had some sneaky fast ones, then Corvette on the C6 ZR1 and Z07/Carbon, then Ferrari and Camaro with Trofeo R, then Viper with Khumo V720 and now Porsche again. It's cyclical. Someone will always have a tire advantage. I have no explanation for why they had two different sets of tires. But all the rumors point to these CupR being extremely fast. We know the Viper tires are Hoosier fast for sure, at least for a few laps. If it's faster than those, it says a lot.
Speaking of which, beating the ACR at VIR on lesser tires is quite an accomplishment. Not quite the drubbing Mero gave the Acr on the main course, but impressive nonetheless.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-19-2018 at 10:00 PM.
09-19-2018, 10:00 PM
#119
nowadays. Not really. With proper air pressure, the sidewalls on these tires are so stiff that the runflat portion of it doesnt matter. Theres a reason they look so damn similar, they are the same compound.
09-19-2018, 10:03 PM
#120
Safety Car
No, they are not.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-19-2018 at 10:03 PM.