C7 ZR1 April Nurburgring Testing
04-18-2018, 11:03 AM
#161
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,259
Received 5,457 Likes
on
2,274 Posts
04-18-2018, 11:04 AM
#162
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Mar 1999
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 10,087
Received 3,836 Likes
on
1,156 Posts
"Ask Tadge" Producer
04-18-2018, 11:09 AM
#163
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,259
Received 5,457 Likes
on
2,274 Posts
04-18-2018, 11:54 AM
#164
I don't believe he has delivered one as yet. At least according to his sunday delivery posts. I'm on his list since January but haven't heard anything.
04-18-2018, 02:09 PM
#165
Racer
JVP,
Don't get me wrong here, I think the c7 platform, the zr1 and even the ZL1, which I missed a deal on one today. Are the best product for the dollar on the market today. And they are aimed at the correct demographic and executed very well. The reason I raised the weight issue is that when you start trying to make a street car a race or full on track car the weight issues is the obvious limitation.
With that said , in south Florida, the track day market is big, and for a while the GM products did not have much appeal, not that way anymore. Plus bragin right and having the big stick are alway fun.
Would I like to see a low volume gt3/ weight delete, type of option box on the corvette or zl1 build list, yes I would. Could they get the Camaro down 500 lbs, doubt it or Vette down 350-400 maybe, it would be an effort to complete and say we are the best. USA....
Disclosure my Dgt is going to work for GM, I own gm stock and cars, so I am biased.
Don't get me wrong here, I think the c7 platform, the zr1 and even the ZL1, which I missed a deal on one today. Are the best product for the dollar on the market today. And they are aimed at the correct demographic and executed very well. The reason I raised the weight issue is that when you start trying to make a street car a race or full on track car the weight issues is the obvious limitation.
With that said , in south Florida, the track day market is big, and for a while the GM products did not have much appeal, not that way anymore. Plus bragin right and having the big stick are alway fun.
Would I like to see a low volume gt3/ weight delete, type of option box on the corvette or zl1 build list, yes I would. Could they get the Camaro down 500 lbs, doubt it or Vette down 350-400 maybe, it would be an effort to complete and say we are the best. USA....
Disclosure my Dgt is going to work for GM, I own gm stock and cars, so I am biased.
04-18-2018, 03:16 PM
#166
JVP,
Don't get me wrong here, I think the c7 platform, the zr1 and even the ZL1, which I missed a deal on one today. Are the best product for the dollar on the market today. And they are aimed at the correct demographic and executed very well. The reason I raised the weight issue is that when you start trying to make a street car a race or full on track car the weight issues is the obvious limitation.
With that said , in south Florida, the track day market is big, and for a while the GM products did not have much appeal, not that way anymore. Plus bragin right and having the big stick are alway fun.
Would I like to see a low volume gt3/ weight delete, type of option box on the corvette or zl1 build list, yes I would. Could they get the Camaro down 500 lbs, doubt it or Vette down 350-400 maybe, it would be an effort to complete and say we are the best. USA....
Disclosure my Dgt is going to work for GM, I own gm stock and cars, so I am biased.
Don't get me wrong here, I think the c7 platform, the zr1 and even the ZL1, which I missed a deal on one today. Are the best product for the dollar on the market today. And they are aimed at the correct demographic and executed very well. The reason I raised the weight issue is that when you start trying to make a street car a race or full on track car the weight issues is the obvious limitation.
With that said , in south Florida, the track day market is big, and for a while the GM products did not have much appeal, not that way anymore. Plus bragin right and having the big stick are alway fun.
Would I like to see a low volume gt3/ weight delete, type of option box on the corvette or zl1 build list, yes I would. Could they get the Camaro down 500 lbs, doubt it or Vette down 350-400 maybe, it would be an effort to complete and say we are the best. USA....
Disclosure my Dgt is going to work for GM, I own gm stock and cars, so I am biased.
You have probably seen videos of how they put together Corvettes and 911s... assembly line/cut sheet/red seats go to red seat bin install/next...etc etc so when I inquired on the GT2RS OEM deletes I thought it was done in line, that is, cut sheet says no A/C, no infotainment/no communication bus, and the installer simply does not install the components associated with it - easy...BUT it does not work that way... they first build the "stock/base" car and THEN it is "stripped" of those components...(as a options/customization) thing..
The question for Tadge would be...alright..we see how the car is put together..so what is so hard about "not installing" an A/C system or a infotainment system...?
I suppose one of the potential answers would be: when you spit out 100 cars a day actually changing the process to do OEM deletes costs a lot of money and it's not worth it...?
My2C
P.S. SORRY way off topic..could not resist.. won't do it again..
Last edited by Telepierre; 04-18-2018 at 03:19 PM.
04-18-2018, 03:23 PM
#167
NO none of them have been fixed.The Z06 suckers continue to take it up the A.
04-18-2018, 03:26 PM
#168
04-18-2018, 04:42 PM
#169
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Mar 1999
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 10,087
Received 3,836 Likes
on
1,156 Posts
"Ask Tadge" Producer
OK. So now GM decides to build a de-contented car. How many? How many A/C units do they have to purchase for the rest of them vs just buying enough to cover every Corvette they plan to build? How about anything else they're going to remove from the Corvette to make it lighter? How many of those XXX systems/devices/etc will they have the purchase or build to make up the difference?
This will raise the price of all of those systems because there aren't as many of them purchased. Guess what happens? Either GM cranks the price of the de-contented model to make up the difference, or they increase the price across the board.
I'm over-simplifying it, but that's the basic challenge. Make sense?
04-18-2018, 05:01 PM
#170
Not to derail the this thread, but what happened to some changes he mentioned in the Ask Tadge thread? Im very cloudy at the moment, but I thought that was suppose to rectify the Z's issues. I think it was the supercharger lid and some other stuff.
04-18-2018, 05:43 PM
#171
This is actually kinda easy. You have to think of the car in total as well as as sum of a bunch (bzillion or two, give or take) parts and systems. Some of those systems GM builds in-house. Some of them they have to purchase externally.
OK. So now GM decides to build a de-contented car. How many? How many A/C units do they have to purchase for the rest of them vs just buying enough to cover every Corvette they plan to build? How about anything else they're going to remove from the Corvette to make it lighter? How many of those XXX systems/devices/etc will they have the purchase or build to make up the difference?
This will raise the price of all of those systems because there aren't as many of them purchased. Guess what happens? Either GM cranks the price of the de-contented model to make up the difference, or they increase the price across the board.
I'm over-simplifying it, but that's the basic challenge. Make sense?
OK. So now GM decides to build a de-contented car. How many? How many A/C units do they have to purchase for the rest of them vs just buying enough to cover every Corvette they plan to build? How about anything else they're going to remove from the Corvette to make it lighter? How many of those XXX systems/devices/etc will they have the purchase or build to make up the difference?
This will raise the price of all of those systems because there aren't as many of them purchased. Guess what happens? Either GM cranks the price of the de-contented model to make up the difference, or they increase the price across the board.
I'm over-simplifying it, but that's the basic challenge. Make sense?
Grazie!
04-18-2018, 06:56 PM
#172
04-18-2018, 07:04 PM
#173
They're fostering the community that they need to foster from a business perspective though. You need to stop looking at it as myopically as you are. There are significantly more non-track rats than there are track rats. This is the market GM has to cater to, like it or not.
Porsche isn't "winning over track guys". They're catering to an existing (very small, mind you) market of guys and gals that were going to buy a Porsche anyway. These are well-healed folks that can afford the ridiculous price tag for the GT3/RS; a price that nearly no one in the Corvette world would pay.
Read that carefully: some would pay it. But not enough would to justify the work involved.
I often find it amusing how many folks who aren't part of the engineering team seem to think they know more than the folks who are on the engineering team. Such is the case here. Don't think for a moment that they haven't done the homework involved in this idea. They have. Their homework is far more thorough than the "professionals" here who are just throwing out ideas (along with slings and arrows). Said homework has brought them to the conclusion that it's not worth the effort.
Get it?
Porsche isn't "winning over track guys". They're catering to an existing (very small, mind you) market of guys and gals that were going to buy a Porsche anyway. These are well-healed folks that can afford the ridiculous price tag for the GT3/RS; a price that nearly no one in the Corvette world would pay.
Read that carefully: some would pay it. But not enough would to justify the work involved.
I often find it amusing how many folks who aren't part of the engineering team seem to think they know more than the folks who are on the engineering team. Such is the case here. Don't think for a moment that they haven't done the homework involved in this idea. They have. Their homework is far more thorough than the "professionals" here who are just throwing out ideas (along with slings and arrows). Said homework has brought them to the conclusion that it's not worth the effort.
Get it?
They are available for the taking. GM just need to step it up to the right level. Just like the large amount of 911 variants, there's nothing stopping GM from keeping the fanbase that's there already.
Sure, it might not make immediate business sense but over time you can build credibility into that market and sell into it and start moving the corvette brand up in the pecking order. Again, if you don't start, there's no where to go.
Perhaps they only want to be "America's sweetheart" and not a worldwide play.
04-18-2018, 07:10 PM
#174
It would be killer though if they released Base, GS, Z06, ZR1 times all at once but that's wishful thinking.
Last edited by keagan; 04-18-2018 at 07:11 PM.
04-18-2018, 07:57 PM
#175
Plenty of the GT3 guys are multi car owners often on the search for pure driving experiences.
They are available for the taking. GM just need to step it up to the right level. Just like the large amount of 911 variants, there's nothing stopping GM from keeping the fanbase that's there already.
Sure, it might not make immediate business sense but over time you can build credibility into that market and sell into it and start moving the corvette brand up in the pecking order. Again, if you don't start, there's no where to go.
Perhaps they only want to be "America's sweetheart" and not a worldwide play.
They are available for the taking. GM just need to step it up to the right level. Just like the large amount of 911 variants, there's nothing stopping GM from keeping the fanbase that's there already.
Sure, it might not make immediate business sense but over time you can build credibility into that market and sell into it and start moving the corvette brand up in the pecking order. Again, if you don't start, there's no where to go.
Perhaps they only want to be "America's sweetheart" and not a worldwide play.
GT3/GT3RS (160-200K) 300ish cars per year...
GT2/GT2RS (250-400K) launched June 30 2017 to date (tracking) sub ten
confirmed deliveries... (with the Nurb record!)base 911 (a 370hp car) (100K+) 7000 per year...
C7 ZR1 (150K) Launched Nov 13 tracking 200/mo since March
C7 all minus Zr1 (55K-100K) 25/30K per year..
I'll save you the revenue math...but point is starting corvette at 100K to chase the pure driving experience guys... may be tough...?
I really think the "new market" that saved Porsche was the SUVs not the GT3s...
My2C
04-18-2018, 08:11 PM
#176
then again..two more days of hope... :-)
Last edited by Telepierre; 04-18-2018 at 08:16 PM.
ZO6!
04-19-2018, 07:57 AM
#178
Burning Brakes
So this just happened -
Cliff Notes -
$400k GT2 RS - PDK Only + Weissach Package (Already sold out)
$100k Z07 - MT (Used ones are already in the $70-$80k) range.
Lap times -
GT2 RS - 1:27.56
C7 Z07 - 1:28.64
GT2 RS is lighter with more power.
Imagine what the ZR1 is capable of.
Cliff Notes -
$400k GT2 RS - PDK Only + Weissach Package (Already sold out)
$100k Z07 - MT (Used ones are already in the $70-$80k) range.
Lap times -
GT2 RS - 1:27.56
C7 Z07 - 1:28.64
GT2 RS is lighter with more power.
Imagine what the ZR1 is capable of.
Last edited by Checkmate1; 04-19-2018 at 07:57 AM.
04-19-2018, 08:54 AM
#179
Le Mans Master
You're late! ;)
So this just happened -
https://youtu.be/bM2uiPiNYas
Cliff Notes -
$400k GT2 RS - PDK Only + Weissach Package (Already sold out)
$100k Z07 - MT (Used ones are already in the $70-$80k) range.
Lap times -
GT2 RS - 1:27.56
C7 Z07 - 1:28.64
GT2 RS is lighter with more power.
Imagine what the ZR1 is capable of.
https://youtu.be/bM2uiPiNYas
Cliff Notes -
$400k GT2 RS - PDK Only + Weissach Package (Already sold out)
$100k Z07 - MT (Used ones are already in the $70-$80k) range.
Lap times -
GT2 RS - 1:27.56
C7 Z07 - 1:28.64
GT2 RS is lighter with more power.
Imagine what the ZR1 is capable of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnglenntwo
Porsche 911 GT2 RS laptime at Mireval 2017 (fastestlaps)
Porsche 911 GT2 RS: 1:27.56
(Not a mauling!)
Corvette Z06: 1:28.64
Read'um and weep!
im sure the ZR1 will destroy both times, good stuff
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 04-19-2018 at 09:03 AM.
04-19-2018, 09:21 AM
#180
Burning Brakes
So this just happened -
https://youtu.be/bM2uiPiNYas
Cliff Notes -
$400k GT2 RS - PDK Only + Weissach Package (Already sold out)
$100k Z07 - MT (Used ones are already in the $70-$80k) range.
Lap times -
GT2 RS - 1:27.56
C7 Z07 - 1:28.64
GT2 RS is lighter with more power.
Imagine what the ZR1 is capable of.
https://youtu.be/bM2uiPiNYas
Cliff Notes -
$400k GT2 RS - PDK Only + Weissach Package (Already sold out)
$100k Z07 - MT (Used ones are already in the $70-$80k) range.
Lap times -
GT2 RS - 1:27.56
C7 Z07 - 1:28.64
GT2 RS is lighter with more power.
Imagine what the ZR1 is capable of.
Side note: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...g-time-rumors/ I'm Excited. I already read the ZR1 track review in the magazine, and it's apparent that the ZR1 is an elite performance car.
Last edited by Quinten33; 04-19-2018 at 09:25 AM.