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yeah- I paid my dealer to vac the system - made sure they had the tool - and they left 2” of air and stated it was the best they could do.
I would have been better off to just have bought the bleeder initially.
I also thought it was an expensive one time gig - but now have a noisy blower.
While I can’t say I’m thrilled at the circumstance behind using the bleeder again I am thrilled that I have it. Works great. Easy.
You have to have a mechanic at the dealership that is interested in solving your problem. The mechanic at my dealership had been working on my issue for 1.5 years. Every time I went to the track I had an issue with power loss due to misfires at wide open throttle and high rpm. When GM engineering started working with us to resolve the problem he was one of the first dealer mechanics in the country to work to get the air out. He knew I had a problem. Other mechanics in other dealerships don't understand the problem so blow you off when you complain. I had videos, codes, and repeat trips to the dealership to get the problem resolved while the car was under warranty.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 12-05-2021 at 10:51 PM.
I agree that the tech’s interest is important and I imagine the service manager has some affect as well.
i Followed your thread and remember it was quite a process to resolve - not a common event and not like the tech could replicate it on the street - I think your guy did a really good job getting to the bottom of it.
my dealers ok and the service is pretty good al things considered- everyone’s circumstance is different
I actually took my car back after their first attempt to bleed the CAC without luck and just figured it was not a fight with the time considering Jared’s bleeder was available.
Do any of the big performance shops using this? I would be curious what method most of them are using, did they come up with their own or are they using the GM tools?
Do any of the big performance shops using this? I would be curious what method most of them are using, did they come up with their own or are they using the GM tools?
There are several board sponsors here that have one in the shop. Hopefully a couple will pop into this thread, but not really my place to say who/where.
The concept is in its infancy, but I'm working on a map for the website that shows all the shops that have the tool, so people could find one near them. This would of course assuming the shop wants to be listed.
If you need bleed depends on the cooling mods, if you have a Cordes expansion tank then bleeding the cooler isnt as important since pump cavitation doesnt happen.
I have a giant pocket in my tank, but I suppose because I have a Magnuson 2650 and it comes with an extra tiny reservoir cavitation doesn't happen. My temps are okay too. I wonder how much bleeding would help though.
Originally Posted by Le Mans Z06
Do any of the big performance shops using this? I would be curious what method most of them are using, did they come up with their own or are they using the GM tools?
Good question. I'm here in Houston where there's a huge amount of LTX/LSX performance shops. I wonder if any of them have one or what methods they use.
Man everyone wants to use it, and no one wants to buy it LOL.
Maybe find a friend and split the costs? It would be cheaper for you both versus paying a dealer to attempt to bleed it. Or, as others are doing, sell a bleeding service in your area. You will be doing a better job than others without the tool and could be profitable in a 1/2 day if you scheduled a few cars. Itsso easy to operate. If you can pop the hood on your car, you can use The 'Cooler Bleeder in your driveway. Seriously.
-Jared
I'm going to have to see how many people in our club have cars that could make use of it and see if we can go in together. Well, did a quick count in the DFW area for C6/7 ZR1s and C& Z06s and came up with 63 member/owners. Hopefully can find some that are interested.
I'm going to have to see how many people in our club have cars that could make use of it and see if we can go in together. Well, did a quick count in the DFW area for C6/7 ZR1s and C& Z06s and came up with 63 member/owners. Hopefully can find some that are interested.
That would be awesome! Even if just a couple guys the cost is easily covered.
If you need bleed depends on the cooling mods, if you have a Cordes expansion tank then bleeding the cooler isnt as important since pump cavitation doesnt happen.
Um I don't belive so my friend. It will still need to be bled.
Um I don't belive so my friend. It will still need to be bled.
It wont and it not nearly as crucial at all, believe me I have spent plenty of time on the phone with Joe at Cordes who designed and built the tank. I have 2 decent size air pockets in the stock expansion tank of my 19 C7Z, never once had a cavitation issue and never once had any high temps, limp mode or anything else and I have done plenty of back to back 40-140 runs on hot summer days. When you add a secondary expansion tank it eliminates any issues with the cavitation issue that causes the I/C pump to shut down.
It wont and it not nearly as crucial at all, believe me I have spent plenty of time on the phone with Joe at Cordes who designed and built the tank. I have 2 decent size air pockets in the stock expansion tank of my 19 C7Z, never once had a cavitation issue and never once had any high temps, limp mode or anything else and I have done plenty of back to back 40-140 runs on hot summer days. When you add a secondary expansion tank it eliminates any issues with the cavitation issue that causes the I/C pump to shut down.
Out of curiosity how do you get the air out of the bricks?
Out of curiosity how do you get the air out of the bricks?
I would be interested too
Furthermore I would be interested in:
How an aftermarket tank that maintains factory flow paths, regardless of brand, would prevent pump shut down from cavitation? Scientifically, not hearsay.
How are you monitoring your CAC pump?
Out of curiosity how do you get the air out of the bricks?
The Cordes Tank is not filled all the way to the top, the air from the bricks evacuates into the Cordes Expansion tank. You can open the I/C bleeder screws as well. As I mentioned earlier I have 2 decent size pockets of air in my OEM tank, I have data logged a bunch and ran at the track back to back runs along with street runs in the 100's here in Oklahoma. If the I/C pump cavitates it puts it into shut down, shortly after that the car goes into limp mode. It is also becomes apparent in your coolant temps when they start to spike up.
I had all of these concerns as well, a couple of phone calls to Joe over at Cordes racing and I had any info I needed in regards to bleeding the I/C circuit along with using a secondary expansion tank.
The Cordes Tank is not filled all the way to the top, the air from the bricks evacuates into the Cordes Expansion tank. You can open the I/C bleeder screws as well. As I mentioned earlier I have 2 decent size pockets of air in my OEM tank, I have data logged a bunch and ran at the track back to back runs along with street runs in the 100's here in Oklahoma. If the I/C pump cavitates it puts it into shut down, shortly after that the car goes into limp mode. It is also becomes apparent in your coolant temps when they start to spike up.
I had all of these concerns as well, a couple of phone calls to Joe over at Cordes racing and I had any info I needed in regards to bleeding the I/C circuit along with using a secondary expansion tank.
But it doesn't. Air stays trapped in the bricks. The bricks are higher than the tank, which according to physics, means it wont self bleed. The bleeders are useless for the same reasons. Furthermore, the CAC pump is fed from the output of the front heat exchanger. The heat exchanger pulls coolant from the factory tank. Once you start cornering aggressively and get the chassis shaking around, the factory tank, if not completely full of coolant, will aerate and send frothy coolant directly to the pump. This is when you get pump shutdown, and also why if you reroute the factory hoses, and feed the pump "cleaner" coolant, you can prevent the issue. One of the big reasons all the major cooling overhaul kits from LG, G Speed, Katech etc all reroute the CAC hoses and use the aftermarket tanks as a big reservoir of pump head pressure.
I want to be 100% clear. Joe/Cordes provides an AMAZING product. I have a bunch of his products on my own car. Also, I think adding an aftermarket tank is a good thing, BUT for the right reasons. Bleeding and cavitation reduction aren't on the list of right reasons
Post from just a few days ago, https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...r-bleeder.html . This was on a Cordes tank car. Added 32oz of additional coolant to the CAC system. Thats a LOT of displaced air which wasnt bled our through the tank. Just one example of many.
Here's an open offer: Anyone with a Cordes tank who wants to meet up with me, Ill bleed for no charge and video the process. Only thing I ask is you post your thoughts before and after the bleed. Cincinnati OH area. Just reach out
But it doesn't. Air stays trapped in the bricks. The bricks are higher than the tank, which according to physics, means it wont self bleed. The bleeders are useless for the same reasons. Furthermore, the CAC pump is fed from the output of the front heat exchanger. The heat exchanger pulls coolant from the factory tank. Once you start cornering aggressively and get the chassis shaking around, the factory tank, if not completely full of coolant, will aerate and send frothy coolant directly to the pump. This is when you get pump shutdown, and also why if you reroute the factory hoses, and feed the pump "cleaner" coolant, you can prevent the issue. One of the big reasons all the major cooling overhaul kits from LG, G Speed, Katech etc all reroute the CAC hoses and use the aftermarket tanks as a big reservoir of pump head pressure.
I want to be 100% clear. Joe/Cordes provides an AMAZING product. I have a bunch of his products on my own car. Also, I think adding an aftermarket tank is a good thing, BUT for the right reasons. Bleeding and cavitation reduction aren't on the list of right reasons
Post from just a few days ago, https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...r-bleeder.html . This was on a Cordes tank car. Added 32oz of additional coolant to the CAC system. Thats a LOT of displaced air which wasnt bled our through the tank. Just one example of many.
Here's an open offer: Anyone with a Cordes tank who wants to meet up with me, Ill bleed for no charge and video the process. Only thing I ask is you post your thoughts before and after the bleed. Cincinnati OH area. Just reach out
If the bricks were not bleeding I can promise you a person would know it and or see it in the data logs, I use HP Tuners and data logged a ton on my car thru 2 different tune revisions and a bunch of 0-140 runs and some track time.
On the sealed OEM system there is no way to get the air down into the lower reservoir due to how the circulation path is setup, on the Cordes tank the moment I fired the car up I could see the air from the bricks purging into the Cordes tank that only sits maybe 6"-12" lower than the bricks. If your theory was right that the air will only stay in the bricks then I would see it in the data logs as the temps would skyrocket immediately once the car is pushed to a long WOT pull, or if the air made it to the I/C pump the pump would cavitate and thus enter safety shut down mode.
I did for giggle bleed mine using the 1"x12" long reinforced clear tube method, I had the passenger side front of the car higher than the drivers side and the tank unbolted, I only got a little of air out of the lower tank. Data logs never changed at all. My car has never once went into limp mode either.
Sadly this is a basic design fail on GM that could have easily been solved by changing the location of the in/out ports on the lower tank.
you can bleed the system for almost nothing and it’s still super easy……
I had air in system after dealer installed expansion tank. They stated they had vac filled. Started losing some decent top end on track in the straights the next day I drive on track. I bought one of those bleeder kits for radiators at auto store for about $20. Has a big funnel. Nice little plunger stopper. A bunch of adaptors. Others have simply used a few dollars worth of rubber hose and attach to a 3 liter bottle cut In Half if you really want to save money. Just filled the funnel half full with water. Ran system. Used bleeder valve on expansion tank. Took maybe 20 min. Left me with two quarter sized bubbles on top of stock tank. Next time out at track car wasn’t losing power anymore 👍
I’m sure that bleeder is amazing and super easy to use. Maybe gets a little more air out …. Can’t hurt to try DYI.
12-04-2021, 10:52 PM
LOL.
