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I waited until 2019 to get my Z06 and would likely wait many years to buy a C8 because I make sure the engineering bugs have been worked out before I buy. Early buyers become complainers because of bugs, and the C7 is a great example. The C8 is not only a redesign but a complete concept change. There will be more bugs than usual and it will take longer to work them all out.
Well said.
The C7 still looks modern and advanced.
Going from a C7Z to a C8 Stingray is a step down in overall capability.
Got to have a C8Z to actually step "up".
The C8 body is heavier, so unless the C8Z has at least 700 hp I wont be making that jump either.
Already had to give up the manual transmission will not not give up power to weight ratio as well.
I am sure GM/Corvette will not ask us Z06 folks to do that. So NA flat plane is out. JMHO.
Flat plane doesn't sound good to me either after reading about all the problems that Ford has with the excessive oil burning and I think that's from the high RPMs.
I'm keeping my Z for another year or so as I'm not completely sold on the looks of the new C8 yet. Like to see how the reliability and actual performance will be after a year of feedback from our Forum members.
I’m keeping my c7. I have my eye out in case a zr1 appears for sale spect out the way I like. I will wait to see what the next level c8 brings but for now I’m not a big fan of the looks of the c8. I still love the look of my c7 z06.
I’m keeping my c7. I have my eye out in case a zr1 appears for sale spect out the way I like. I will wait to see what the next level c8 brings but for now I’m not a big fan of the looks of the c8. I still love the look of my c7 z06.
You sound like me. I was looking for a ZR1 exactly the way I wanted it and couldn't find one. For that much money, which I am willing to pay, it has to be exactly what I want.
Sticking with my C7 ZO6 M7.....Because automatics are for "girls" . This Lady enjoys the control and connection that comes with manually shifting gears! The last American "Sports" Car :-)
Flat plane doesn't sound good to me either after reading about all the problems that Ford has with the excessive oil burning and I think that's from the high RPMs.
Flat plane cranks are inherently unbalanced. That unbalance causes vibration and that vibration causes all sorts of issues. The only good thing about a flat plane crank is the side to side firing allows exhaust to flow better which has the side benefit of sounding better too. I doubt GM will actually go flat plane crank.
Flat plane cranks are inherently unbalanced. That unbalance causes vibration and that vibration causes all sorts of issues. The only good thing about a flat plane crank is the side to side firing allows exhaust to flow better which has the side benefit of sounding better too. I doubt GM will actually go flat plane crank.
Yes Sir.
Of course there have been many improvements over the years but vibration/harmonics is inherent in the design.
For the most part its difficult to get vibration under control in larger FPC engines.
5.0-5.5 maybe 6 liters is as large as we are likely to see with the current technology.
I really don't understand this love affair with FPC engines.
FPC engines were popular before the cross plane crank engines and actually the CPC engines were developed to resolve some of the issues FPC engines had at the time.
So yea folks are talking about FPC engines turning 7 or 8 grand without issue and that being a reason for the switch to FPC.
Remember most are less than 5 liters right? Anybody can make a small engine turn 8 grand.
I remember when you could go to a Chevy or Ford dealership and buy a Camaro, Corvette or Mustang with 5.0 lliter (302/327cu) V8's that could rev 7 or 8 grand rpm.
Yea that was with CPC, old head technology, old piston technology, old bearing technology 40 years ago......but now we need FPC to turn those RPM?
Yea right. Ask NASCAR. They are running 8500 rpm all day long on CPC engines.
So FPC for what reason? Cause somebody from across the ocean convinced folks it was better.
I call BS.
Last edited by dar02081961; 02-12-2020 at 10:02 AM.
I've had two Ferraris with flat plane engines that rev'd smoothly and freely to 8700 RPM, screamed like F1 cars, and never had an issue. None of my friends did either. There are a lot of opinions without real experiences voiced here but personally I would not hesitste to get another FPC.
Oh, and NASCAR engines can absolutely rev high all day, for 600 whole miles even.... but then are completely rebuilt or sold.
I've had two Ferraris with flat plane engines that rev'd smoothly and freely to 8700 RPM, screamed like F1 cars, and never had an issue. None of my friends did either. There are a lot of opinions without real experiences voiced here but personally I would not hesitste to get another FPC.
Oh, and NASCAR engines can absolutely rev high all day, for 600 whole miles even.... but then are completely rebuilt or sold.
Dont get me wrong.
I personally am not criticizing the FPC engines for problems. As you mentioned others have had success with them.
My point was they are no better than CPC engines when it comes to high revs.
Therefore there isn't in my opinion much justification for swapping to them for a daily driven street car.
CPC engines have better harmonics and vibration control. And in the same cubic inch/liter sizes can rev just as high (although maybe not quite as quickly) as FPC engines.
So yes while you and your friends have had good experiences with FPC engines, those engines were not mass produced and I am sure few of them if any have over 100,000 miles on them without a major maintenance action at major expense?
So while you and others have positive experience with FPC engines in limited production cars, the philosophy is different in a Corvette as compared to a Ferrari.
There are 10's of thousands of Corvettes out there being daily driven with over 100K on the engines without any major engine maintenance.
Try that with FPC Ferraris.
The Ford Mustang GT 350 is probably closer to the definition of a "mass produced" FPC engine. So far their reliability results are fairly positive so hopefully they keep trending that way. (the oil consumption issue I discount because I am not sure that issue can be blamed on the FPC configuration).
Again nothing wrong with FPC engines. They work just fine for small engines.
But overall they are no better than a properly engineered CPC engine of similar size.
And if you want NA FPC over 5.5 liters or so, you have some major challenges to resolve.
So why make the change from CPC to FPC in a mass produced Corvette?
Sure let's compare a hand built and meticulously designed fpc in a Ferrari or Lambo to the mass production Chevy version. Good god it will be a grenade with the pin dangling by a prayer.
Dont get me wrong.
I personally am not criticizing the FPC engines for problems. As you mentioned others have had success with them.
My point was they are no better than CPC engines when it comes to high revs.
Therefore there isn't in my opinion much justification for swapping to them for a daily driven street car.
CPC engines have better harmonics and vibration control. And in the same cubic inch/liter sizes can rev just as high (although maybe not quite as quickly) as FPC engines.
So yes while you and your friends have had good experiences with FPC engines, those engines were not mass produced and I am sure few of them if any have over 100,000 miles on them without a major maintenance action at major expense?
So while you and others have positive experience with FPC engines in limited production cars, the philosophy is different in a Corvette as compared to a Ferrari.
There are 10's of thousands of Corvettes out there being daily driven with over 100K on the engines without any major engine maintenance.
Try that with FPC Ferraris.
The Ford Mustang GT 350 is probably closer to the definition of a "mass produced" FPC engine. So far their reliability results are fairly positive so hopefully they keep trending that way. (the oil consumption issue I discount because I am not sure that issue can be blamed on the FPC configuration).
Again nothing wrong with FPC engines. They work just fine for small engines.
But overall they are no better than a properly engineered CPC engine of similar size.
And if you want NA FPC over 5.5 liters or so, you have some major challenges to resolve.
So why make the change from CPC to FPC in a mass produced Corvette?
Fair enough.
I'm fair sure that the whole C8 thing has EVERYTHING to do with years of putting up with naysayers saying "Yes, but who puts engines in the front?" and "Yes, but the engine has pushrods" and "Yes, but it has transverse springs just like a Model T ", "Yes, but it's an old man's car", and blah, blah, blah. That's why Chevy will build an FPC engine and make it affordable - to prove again that it actually can be done. One thing they probably should realize that it is not only about performance, it's about "prestige". A Seiko will out-perform a Rolex for 1/100th of the price - but people will buy a Rolex to flex their wallets in front of everybody.
These naysayers - and the world is full of them - will.sadly, come up with something new.
I'm fair sure that the whole C8 thing has EVERYTHING to do with years of putting up with naysayers saying "Yes, but who puts engines in the front?" and "Yes, but the engine has pushrods" and "Yes, but it has transverse springs just like a Model T ", "Yes, but it's an old man's car", and blah, blah, blah. That's why Chevy will build an FPC engine and make it affordable - to prove again that it actually can be done. One thing they probably should realize that it is not only about performance, it's about "prestige". A Seiko will out-perform a Rolex for 1/100th of the price - but people will buy a Rolex to flex their wallets in front of everybody.
These naysayers - and the world is full of them - will.sadly, come up with something new.
If you have time, go back years ago on this forum. The ex-C6 owners (now C7 owners) all had something bad to say about the C7 when it was debuted. And they all eventually upgraded to the C7 anyway. I know, because i was with them saying the same thing. Once the C7 came out, a little over a year later i picked up a C7Z. And it instantly became the best car i ever owned. Light years ahead of the C6.
The C8 will be no different. People don't like change. But change is good. That's the evolution of a car we all love.
The C8, Z and up variants will be total game changers. I understand we are all emotionally attached to our cars but the good news to all of this is that you always have something to look foward to, because something NEW AND BETTER is always on the horizon.
I am currently debating on buying an extended warranty for my car for 1 year, because the C8Z keeps getting pushed back. But since it's probably not financially sensible, i may just upgrade to the C8 stingray, then C8Z. Or leave the corvette world for now and be back with it's C8Z time.
If you have time, go back years ago on this forum. The ex-C6 owners (now C7 owners) all had something bad to say about the C7 when it was debuted. And they all eventually upgraded to the C7 anyway. I know, because i was with them saying the same thing. Once the C7 came out, a little over a year later i picked up a C7Z. And it instantly became the best car i ever owned. Light years ahead of the C6.
The C8 will be no different. People don't like change. But change is good. That's the evolution of a car we all love.
The C8, Z and up variants will be total game changers. I understand we are all emotionally attached to our cars but the good news to all of this is that you always have something to look foward to, because something NEW AND BETTER is always on the horizon.
I am currently debating on buying an extended warranty for my car for 1 year, because the C8Z keeps getting pushed back. But since it's probably not financially sensible, i may just upgrade to the C8 stingray, then C8Z. Or leave the corvette world for now and be back with it's C8Z time.
Oh I remember that! I was here then. And now, like then, I couldn't see paying nearly $80K for a Z51 when I already had a low-mileage 500HP Z06. Now I have a 650 HP one. I've posted here (more times than I care to admit) that after owning some mid-engined cars that I have no desire to get another.
Like you said the C7Z is way more refined than the C6 version. How much "more refined" is there room for? I guess we'll find out.
Oh I remember that! I was here then. And now, like then, I couldn't see paying nearly $80K for a Z51 when I already had a low-mileage 500HP Z06. Now I have a 650 HP one. I've posted here (more times than I care to admit) that after owning some mid-engined cars that I have no desire to get another.
Like you said the C7Z is way more refined than the C6 version. How much "more refined" is there room for? I guess we'll find out.
You said you had other cars before. I've sat in AMG cars that have interiors WAYYYYY better than the C7Z. Hell even the toyota avalon has a better interior (fit and finish, and refinement, not layout) than the C7Z.
For what it is, the C7Z is the best car for the dollar. But it does need major improvements. It's not perfect. It's better than the C6 for sure, but there is still a lot of room left for improvement. Despite the center console of the C8, i sat in it and it's a lot better than the C7. Everything definitely feels more "german" like. And you know german and their interiors, hard to beat.
You said you had other cars before. I've sat in AMG cars that have interiors WAYYYYY better than the C7Z. Hell even the toyota avalon has a better interior (fit and finish, and refinement, not layout) than the C7Z.
For what it is, the C7Z is the best car for the dollar. But it does need major improvements. It's not perfect. It's better than the C6 for sure, but there is still a lot of room left for improvement. Despite the center console of the C8, i sat in it and it's a lot better than the C7. Everything definitely feels more "german" like. And you know german and their interiors, hard to beat.
I only have a 2LZ and am completely happy with the interior. My previous car was an M3 with the executive package and napa leather. It was nice but I don’t feel the Corvette is that lacking for a sports car.
You said you had other cars before. I've sat in AMG cars that have interiors WAYYYYY better than the C7Z. Hell even the toyota avalon has a better interior (fit and finish, and refinement, not layout) than the C7Z.
For what it is, the C7Z is the best car for the dollar. But it does need major improvements. It's not perfect. It's better than the C6 for sure, but there is still a lot of room left for improvement. Despite the center console of the C8, i sat in it and it's a lot better than the C7. Everything definitely feels more "german" like. And you know german and their interiors, hard to beat.
Sorry, I read back what I wrote and I wasn't clear what I meant by "refined". I was more referencing the smoother ride, decent seats, and lack of rattles. For sure the interior could be improved to be more elegant and from what I've seen, that is not the case for the C8. It looks thrown together to me. Now, I have a 3LZ, and I actually like the materials better than my Ferraris - both of which developed dash shrinkage. My F430's was so bad that it popped both defroster vents out. That fix was surprisingly cheap when I found an NOS upper dash on ebay for $1200 - I couldn't believe that even the stitching matched.
Sorry, I read back what I wrote and I wasn't clear what I meant by "refined". I was more referencing the smoother ride, decent seats, and lack of rattles. For sure the interior could be improved to be more elegant and from what I've seen, that is not the case for the C8. It looks thrown together to me. Now, I have a 3LZ, and I actually like the materials better than my Ferraris - both of which developed dash shrinkage. My F430's was so bad that it popped both defroster vents out. That fix was surprisingly cheap when I found an NOS upper dash on ebay for $1200 - I couldn't believe that even the stitching matched.
I've sat in an F430, it's garbage compared to the C7Z.
However something like a MB AMG GT (S, R etc) interior blows the C7Z interior away.
Idk, C8's layout needs getting used to, it's still an upgrade to the C7Z in terms of it's futuristic design. The fit and finish is still better.
I believe 75% if everyone on here (if capable) will own a C8 or C8Z within the next 3-4 years lol. History will repeat itself guys and we’ll be saying the same thing again as the C9 rolls out.
02-10-2020, 11:08 AM
. This Lady enjoys the control and connection that comes with manually shifting gears! 
