Does GM Corvette have an ethical or moral compass?
11-07-2019, 06:12 AM
#101
Instructor
11-07-2019, 08:10 AM
#102
Instructor
Member Since: Mar 2015
Location: Reading, PA by way of FL
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When I went to Spring Mountain we paid for a second car for my brother. They told me when I was there: the car I used was owned by GM because of the new purchase deal and my brother had to use a car owned by S.M.
i could see how this could cause a different VIN history as the GM (maybe registered as a demo like stated) cars were only used by “new purchase” students
11-07-2019, 11:50 AM
#104
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
But, I’ve not found what you referenced regarding a previous Spring Mountain purchase. So far, my research has indicated that GM orders these cars for their own account and merely ships them to Spring Mountain after manufacture for temporary use before disposing of them through DC Motors who claims that they get all of these former tracked cars to sell.
If you could forward a link or photo on here or by message I’d appreciate it. Thanks either way...
... and I will try to post the update today or tomorrow ...
11-07-2019, 12:49 PM
#105
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
When I went to Spring Mountain we paid for a second car for my brother. They told me when I was there: the car I used was owned by GM because of the new purchase deal and my brother had to use a car owned by S.M.
i could see how this could cause a different VIN history as the GM (maybe registered as a demo like stated) cars were only used by “new purchase” students
i could see how this could cause a different VIN history as the GM (maybe registered as a demo like stated) cars were only used by “new purchase” students
Last edited by B747VET; 11-07-2019 at 12:50 PM.
11-07-2019, 01:15 PM
#106
Le Mans Master
This is also interesting because it is becoming apparent that some cars come out of the “GM school” and do not then pass through DC MOTORS. It may be that SM purchases some cars at the end of the GM school utilization period and that these cars have a completely separate title path going forward.
11-07-2019, 01:45 PM
#107
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Thanks for asking. I am pleased with the situation as it directly relates to this car and how my concerns have been reconciled and my interests protected and I will post an update explaining what I’ve learned about a number of related issues, what I’ve done regarding my car purchase, and what I will be trying to accomplish on the bigger questions beyond my specific situation.
Last edited by B747VET; 11-07-2019 at 01:45 PM.
11-07-2019, 06:37 PM
#108
Thanks for asking. I am pleased with the situation as it directly relates to this car and how my concerns have been reconciled and my interests protected and I will post an update explaining what I’ve learned about a number of related issues, what I’ve done regarding my car purchase, and what I will be trying to accomplish on the bigger questions beyond my specific situation.
I think the actual answer would have been shorter than the announcement of an upcoming answer.
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11-08-2019, 03:09 PM
#110
Le Mans Master
11-08-2019, 04:00 PM
#111
Race Director
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I think it means a legal team has become involved in the current situation thereby prohibiting further communication from said plaintiff regarding the nature of the case preventing exposure potentially utilized by the defense team herein situation occurring presently.
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11-08-2019, 04:18 PM
#112
Melting Slicks
I think it means a legal team has become involved in the current situation thereby prohibiting further communication from said plaintiff regarding the nature of the case preventing exposure potentially utilized by the defense team herein situation occurring presently.
Last edited by ssmith512; 11-08-2019 at 04:19 PM.
11-09-2019, 10:35 AM
#113
Burning Brakes
Darn long and contentious thread that sort of wanders all over the place. Knowledge is power, incomplete or incorrect knowledge can be disastrous! The key phrase in this seemingly eternal discussion is caveat emptor! Everything is life is basically a crap shoot!
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B747VET (11-12-2019)
11-09-2019, 03:31 PM
#114
Thanks for asking. I am pleased with the situation as it directly relates to this car and how my concerns have been reconciled and my interests protected and I will post an update explaining what I’ve learned about a number of related issues, what I’ve done regarding my car purchase, and what I will be trying to accomplish on the bigger questions beyond my specific situation.
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Harbgrogan (11-09-2019)
11-11-2019, 01:20 AM
#116
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I’m still waiting for a few more responses to questions regarding GM and their general policies regarding Spring Mountain vehicles and warranty blocking disclosures and some broader questions on industry practices, Federal guidelines, and State DMV issues.
So, please allow me to bifurcate the question I raised and now simply discuss the outcome with respect to the car and what we’ve decided to do with it. I will try to address the other broader GM behavorial issues in the coming weeks.
First, we absolutely love this car, but did need to consider new concerns related to the Spring Mountain history. I had the car closely examined by two individuals that we respect and have known for many years. One has many years building manufacturers racing team engines for two different manufacturers. The other is a well recognized Chevrolet dealership Corvette specialist mechanic who also tracks his own Corvette. Both gentlemen cleared the car for engine, shafts, clutch, M7, steering, suspension, brakes and other mechanical & electrical issues.
The ceramic rotors are in good condition and the brake pads are at between 70 to 80%. The relatively new PSS tires are at about 80% or better. There are no other systems issues, no body noises, and the 3 LZ leather dash is tight with no bubbles or separation issues. The competition seats look like new and have no issues either. I did accomplish the MSRC upgrade which made a noticeable improvement in the Z07 Tour and even the Sport mode. I also installed an Attack Blue Dry Nano filter which eliminated the apparently not uncommon surging and stuttering power hesitations coming off the line. Completely smooth power and even a little deeper and louder sound now.
Next, we had to consider the warranty issues. This was complicated by the fact that every phone call to GM conflicted with every other GM phone call. I have made more than 10 calls in all. Every supervisor in the warranty department had a different interpretation of where the car came from and what warranties were or were not in effect.
The selling non-GM dealership was completely supportive from the first moment I raised the warranty blocking issues with them. They had no problem with my returning the car or keeping it and adjusting the selling terms and providing a free warranty.
After we reached a decision to keep the car, they paid for a 5 year 60,000 mile bumper to bumper and drivetrain Platinum warranty. The original GM warranty only has about 5 1/2 mos left on the original B2B warranty which, as of last week, GM seems to indicate is “kind of” or “probably” in effect. GM also indicates that the Emission and Corrision warranties are in full effect. The three Chevrolet dealerships that I’ve conferred with indicate that on problems with respect to the Powertrain warranty, steering, and brakes, GM will probably not pay but that they do sometimes consider such requests on an item by item basis. So, not expecting much there.
Overall, I technically probably have more B2B and drivetrain warranties now than if I had just bought a 2017 with a normal warranty span. That is simply an observation and I could just as easily be better off or worse off depending on what fails and when it fails.
Again, in the near future I will try and address the other broader GM consumer behaviors that are not specific to my personal situation and disclose what I have found out and what changes I’m pursuing. And no, there are no lawyers involved as some have speculated. I believe that it will be more beneficial to attempt achieving such broader corporate behavioral changes through appropriate Federal and State regulatory agencies.
Lastly, I sincerely appreciate those who have exhibited a degree of empathy with this situation. Some have also offered proactive advice in this thread and a number have sent supportive private messages, two of which contained GM documentation that will likely prove to be quite valuable going forward.
Regards...
So, please allow me to bifurcate the question I raised and now simply discuss the outcome with respect to the car and what we’ve decided to do with it. I will try to address the other broader GM behavorial issues in the coming weeks.
First, we absolutely love this car, but did need to consider new concerns related to the Spring Mountain history. I had the car closely examined by two individuals that we respect and have known for many years. One has many years building manufacturers racing team engines for two different manufacturers. The other is a well recognized Chevrolet dealership Corvette specialist mechanic who also tracks his own Corvette. Both gentlemen cleared the car for engine, shafts, clutch, M7, steering, suspension, brakes and other mechanical & electrical issues.
The ceramic rotors are in good condition and the brake pads are at between 70 to 80%. The relatively new PSS tires are at about 80% or better. There are no other systems issues, no body noises, and the 3 LZ leather dash is tight with no bubbles or separation issues. The competition seats look like new and have no issues either. I did accomplish the MSRC upgrade which made a noticeable improvement in the Z07 Tour and even the Sport mode. I also installed an Attack Blue Dry Nano filter which eliminated the apparently not uncommon surging and stuttering power hesitations coming off the line. Completely smooth power and even a little deeper and louder sound now.
Next, we had to consider the warranty issues. This was complicated by the fact that every phone call to GM conflicted with every other GM phone call. I have made more than 10 calls in all. Every supervisor in the warranty department had a different interpretation of where the car came from and what warranties were or were not in effect.
The selling non-GM dealership was completely supportive from the first moment I raised the warranty blocking issues with them. They had no problem with my returning the car or keeping it and adjusting the selling terms and providing a free warranty.
After we reached a decision to keep the car, they paid for a 5 year 60,000 mile bumper to bumper and drivetrain Platinum warranty. The original GM warranty only has about 5 1/2 mos left on the original B2B warranty which, as of last week, GM seems to indicate is “kind of” or “probably” in effect. GM also indicates that the Emission and Corrision warranties are in full effect. The three Chevrolet dealerships that I’ve conferred with indicate that on problems with respect to the Powertrain warranty, steering, and brakes, GM will probably not pay but that they do sometimes consider such requests on an item by item basis. So, not expecting much there.
Overall, I technically probably have more B2B and drivetrain warranties now than if I had just bought a 2017 with a normal warranty span. That is simply an observation and I could just as easily be better off or worse off depending on what fails and when it fails.
Again, in the near future I will try and address the other broader GM consumer behaviors that are not specific to my personal situation and disclose what I have found out and what changes I’m pursuing. And no, there are no lawyers involved as some have speculated. I believe that it will be more beneficial to attempt achieving such broader corporate behavioral changes through appropriate Federal and State regulatory agencies.
Lastly, I sincerely appreciate those who have exhibited a degree of empathy with this situation. Some have also offered proactive advice in this thread and a number have sent supportive private messages, two of which contained GM documentation that will likely prove to be quite valuable going forward.
Regards...
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Harbgrogan (11-11-2019)
11-11-2019, 11:58 AM
#118
Safety Car
I’m still waiting for a few more responses to questions regarding GM and their general policies regarding Spring Mountain vehicles and warranty blocking disclosures and some broader questions on industry practices, Federal guidelines, and State DMV issues.
So, please allow me to bifurcate the question I raised and now simply discuss the outcome with respect to the car and what we’ve decided to do with it. I will try to address the other broader GM behavorial issues in the coming weeks.
First, we absolutely love this car, but did need to consider new concerns related to the Spring Mountain history. I had the car closely examined by two individuals that we respect and have known for many years. One has many years building manufacturers racing team engines for two different manufacturers. The other is a well recognized Chevrolet dealership Corvette specialist mechanic who also tracks his own Corvette. Both gentlemen cleared the car for engine, shafts, clutch, M7, steering, suspension, brakes and other mechanical & electrical issues.
The ceramic rotors are in good condition and the brake pads are at between 70 to 80%. The relatively new PSS tires are at about 80% or better. There are no other systems issues, no body noises, and the 3 LZ leather dash is tight with no bubbles or separation issues. The competition seats look like new and have no issues either. I did accomplish the MSRC upgrade which made a noticeable improvement in the Z07 Tour and even the Sport mode. I also installed an Attack Blue Dry Nano filter which eliminated the apparently not uncommon surging and stuttering power hesitations coming off the line. Completely smooth power and even a little deeper and louder sound now.
Next, we had to consider the warranty issues. This was complicated by the fact that every phone call to GM conflicted with every other GM phone call. I have made more than 10 calls in all. Every supervisor in the warranty department had a different interpretation of where the car came from and what warranties were or were not in effect.
The selling non-GM dealership was completely supportive from the first moment I raised the warranty blocking issues with them. They had no problem with my returning the car or keeping it and adjusting the selling terms and providing a free warranty.
After we reached a decision to keep the car, they paid for a 5 year 60,000 mile bumper to bumper and drivetrain Platinum warranty. The original GM warranty only has about 5 1/2 mos left on the original B2B warranty which, as of last week, GM seems to indicate is “kind of” or “probably” in effect. GM also indicates that the Emission and Corrision warranties are in full effect. The three Chevrolet dealerships that I’ve conferred with indicate that on problems with respect to the Powertrain warranty, steering, and brakes, GM will probably not pay but that they do sometimes consider such requests on an item by item basis. So, not expecting much there.
Overall, I technically probably have more B2B and drivetrain warranties now than if I had just bought a 2017 with a normal warranty span. That is simply an observation and I could just as easily be better off or worse off depending on what fails and when it fails.
Again, in the near future I will try and address the other broader GM consumer behaviors that are not specific to my personal situation and disclose what I have found out and what changes I’m pursuing. And no, there are no lawyers involved as some have speculated. I believe that it will be more beneficial to attempt achieving such broader corporate behavioral changes through appropriate Federal and State regulatory agencies.
Lastly, I sincerely appreciate those who have exhibited a degree of empathy with this situation. Some have also offered proactive advice in this thread and a number have sent supportive private messages, two of which contained GM documentation that will likely prove to be quite valuable going forward.
Regards...
So, please allow me to bifurcate the question I raised and now simply discuss the outcome with respect to the car and what we’ve decided to do with it. I will try to address the other broader GM behavorial issues in the coming weeks.
First, we absolutely love this car, but did need to consider new concerns related to the Spring Mountain history. I had the car closely examined by two individuals that we respect and have known for many years. One has many years building manufacturers racing team engines for two different manufacturers. The other is a well recognized Chevrolet dealership Corvette specialist mechanic who also tracks his own Corvette. Both gentlemen cleared the car for engine, shafts, clutch, M7, steering, suspension, brakes and other mechanical & electrical issues.
The ceramic rotors are in good condition and the brake pads are at between 70 to 80%. The relatively new PSS tires are at about 80% or better. There are no other systems issues, no body noises, and the 3 LZ leather dash is tight with no bubbles or separation issues. The competition seats look like new and have no issues either. I did accomplish the MSRC upgrade which made a noticeable improvement in the Z07 Tour and even the Sport mode. I also installed an Attack Blue Dry Nano filter which eliminated the apparently not uncommon surging and stuttering power hesitations coming off the line. Completely smooth power and even a little deeper and louder sound now.
Next, we had to consider the warranty issues. This was complicated by the fact that every phone call to GM conflicted with every other GM phone call. I have made more than 10 calls in all. Every supervisor in the warranty department had a different interpretation of where the car came from and what warranties were or were not in effect.
The selling non-GM dealership was completely supportive from the first moment I raised the warranty blocking issues with them. They had no problem with my returning the car or keeping it and adjusting the selling terms and providing a free warranty.
After we reached a decision to keep the car, they paid for a 5 year 60,000 mile bumper to bumper and drivetrain Platinum warranty. The original GM warranty only has about 5 1/2 mos left on the original B2B warranty which, as of last week, GM seems to indicate is “kind of” or “probably” in effect. GM also indicates that the Emission and Corrision warranties are in full effect. The three Chevrolet dealerships that I’ve conferred with indicate that on problems with respect to the Powertrain warranty, steering, and brakes, GM will probably not pay but that they do sometimes consider such requests on an item by item basis. So, not expecting much there.
Overall, I technically probably have more B2B and drivetrain warranties now than if I had just bought a 2017 with a normal warranty span. That is simply an observation and I could just as easily be better off or worse off depending on what fails and when it fails.
Again, in the near future I will try and address the other broader GM consumer behaviors that are not specific to my personal situation and disclose what I have found out and what changes I’m pursuing. And no, there are no lawyers involved as some have speculated. I believe that it will be more beneficial to attempt achieving such broader corporate behavioral changes through appropriate Federal and State regulatory agencies.
Lastly, I sincerely appreciate those who have exhibited a degree of empathy with this situation. Some have also offered proactive advice in this thread and a number have sent supportive private messages, two of which contained GM documentation that will likely prove to be quite valuable going forward.
Regards...
11-11-2019, 12:51 PM
#119
Le Mans Master
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Ford's argument was similar to GM's dismal of the C7Z. In the end the jury concluded that Ford was at fault with an interesting analogy. The owner of the Ford had been towing a 7000lb boat (the truck had a 13K lbs towing capacity), Ford maintained it was because the owner was towing over mountain passes and it was extreme use. The jury concluded that if one buys a boat the expectation is that it floats all of the time not just part of the time. In the case of the Ford 6.0, the truck was towing 1/2 of it's max towing and should have been able to tow the boat over the pass anytime it was used for that purpose, especially with the failure occurring under 10K miles.
GMs argument has been that that the Z06 failures occur with less than 5% of owners experiencing the problem, tracking, extreme use, etc. GM will lose this case as that doesn't matter, the car should be able to perform all of the time as advertised and specifically as GM advertised the C7Z. The case will most likely be finished by August 2020. OP if you live in one of the State's the court ruled was applicable for the lawsuit (basically a State that has hotter temps) you may want to contact a lemon law attorney, not sure if it will help but you will not know unless you try. If I had purchased my Ford when it was still under the manufacturers warranty, I would had a case to file against Ford for the 6.0 failure, like the case my staff served on if I had purchased the truck and it was still under warranty and I asked them to fix the issue. After some research I learned that Ford offered the same deal to all of the original owners who first bought the 6.0.
Last edited by Shinobi'sZ; 11-11-2019 at 01:04 PM.
11-11-2019, 03:16 PM
#120
Melting Slicks
I tend to agree with you. I am currently waiting the outcome of the lawsuit against GM on the C7Z, I'm patient. But it did not persuade me from not buying another GM as I just purchased a new fully loaded Silverado 2500 LTZ that I love. It's unfortunate that GM has to be sued to do the right thing. However it happens with Ford too. I had an 06' F350, took it in to Ford and filed a claim for the EGR cooler failures with 6.0, they offered me $500 off the purchase of a new F350 or pay $3000 to "bullet proof" the OEM engine. I ended up bullet proofing and it worked great for 5 years and I recently sold the truck. One of my staff members recently served on jury duty. Afterwards he was sharing with me the details of the case. It just so happened to be regarding an 05' Ford 6.0, Ford brought in a legal team (how much did that cost), the jury awarded the Plaintiff (owner) $170K.
Ford's argument was similar to GM's dismal of the C7Z. In the end the jury concluded that Ford was at fault with an interesting analogy. The owner of the Ford had been towing a 7000lb boat (the truck had a 13K lbs towing capacity), Ford maintained it was because the owner was towing over mountain passes and it was extreme use. The jury concluded that if one buys a boat the expectation is that it floats all of the time not just part of the time. In the case of the Ford 6.0, the truck was towing 1/2 of it's max towing and should have been able to tow the boat over the pass anytime it was used for that purpose, especially with the failure occurring under 10K miles.
GMs argument has been that that the Z06 failures occur with less than 5% of owners experiencing the problem, tracking, extreme use, etc. GM will lose this case as that doesn't matter, the car should be able to perform all of the time as advertised and specifically as GM advertised the C7Z. The case will most likely be finished by August 2020. OP if you live in one of the State's the court ruled was applicable for the lawsuit (basically a State that has hotter temps) you may want to contact a lemon law attorney, not sure if it will help but you will not know unless you try. If I had purchased my Ford when it was still under the manufacturers warranty, I would had a case to file against Ford for the 6.0 failure, like the case my staff served on if I had purchased the truck and it was still under warranty and I asked them to fix the issue. After some research I learned that Ford offered the same deal to all of the original owners who first bought the 6.0.
Ford's argument was similar to GM's dismal of the C7Z. In the end the jury concluded that Ford was at fault with an interesting analogy. The owner of the Ford had been towing a 7000lb boat (the truck had a 13K lbs towing capacity), Ford maintained it was because the owner was towing over mountain passes and it was extreme use. The jury concluded that if one buys a boat the expectation is that it floats all of the time not just part of the time. In the case of the Ford 6.0, the truck was towing 1/2 of it's max towing and should have been able to tow the boat over the pass anytime it was used for that purpose, especially with the failure occurring under 10K miles.
GMs argument has been that that the Z06 failures occur with less than 5% of owners experiencing the problem, tracking, extreme use, etc. GM will lose this case as that doesn't matter, the car should be able to perform all of the time as advertised and specifically as GM advertised the C7Z. The case will most likely be finished by August 2020. OP if you live in one of the State's the court ruled was applicable for the lawsuit (basically a State that has hotter temps) you may want to contact a lemon law attorney, not sure if it will help but you will not know unless you try. If I had purchased my Ford when it was still under the manufacturers warranty, I would had a case to file against Ford for the 6.0 failure, like the case my staff served on if I had purchased the truck and it was still under warranty and I asked them to fix the issue. After some research I learned that Ford offered the same deal to all of the original owners who first bought the 6.0.