C7Z blows up at Mid-Ohio
08-25-2015, 06:37 PM
#62
Has there ever been an engine that GM produced that was popping repeatedly out in the field from the lack of a 500 mile oil change? I have already read the article and others like it that say GM "strongly recommends" changing the oil at 500 miles. Why not require it if it is so critically important?
The problem with this theory is that there are motors going pop with far less than 500 miles on them - many immediately after delivery was taken with less than 250 miles. What makes the LT4 so special that it is the only engine made by anyone that requires an oil change at 500 miles to avoid catastrophic failure? This is nothing more than GM trying to save face and pump some BS out there to make people feel better about buying a new Z06. Sadly, as you've just demonstrated, most people out there are dumb enough to believe it
The smart people are sitting back and waiting until GM decides to fix all of the quality control problems that this car has been plagued with
The problem with this theory is that there are motors going pop with far less than 500 miles on them - many immediately after delivery was taken with less than 250 miles. What makes the LT4 so special that it is the only engine made by anyone that requires an oil change at 500 miles to avoid catastrophic failure? This is nothing more than GM trying to save face and pump some BS out there to make people feel better about buying a new Z06. Sadly, as you've just demonstrated, most people out there are dumb enough to believe it
The smart people are sitting back and waiting until GM decides to fix all of the quality control problems that this car has been plagued with
08-25-2015, 08:59 PM
#63
You omit the part where Porsche proactively stopped selling GT3s in 2014, replaced ALL of the engines that were potentially affected, and went back into production. Despite the fact that 3-4x as many Z06s have been sold so far as 991 GT3s, I have seen one C7Z on track at my home track and personally know about 8 people who own and track the GT3. In fact, it's hard to attend a MotorSport Ranch member day and not see a 991 GT3 or 3 (and other Porsches). the reported GT3 lap times are also faster than the reported Z lap times. And the GT3 manual and Porsche service bulletins do not require a 500 mile oil change or 15W-50 for the track. That could be because no one I know has seen oil temps over 250 in their GT3. I'd love to see a Z hammer around track and be unable to keep up, as I'd go get one.
But right now, I think it is very legitimate to want to know more about the Z before buying, and to be concerned that it is not fully engineered for hard track duty. Right now, it seems pretty clear that if you want to run continuous laps at a pace near that of a pro driver, you can't do it in the C7Z - you have to run occasional cool down laps or make modifications (which are thus far not entirely proven). Nothing is necessarily wrong with that, the Z is a fantastic GT car, perhaps the best performance value available, but apparently just not up to the task of being driven continuously at max pace on track. That is an acceptable mission for the vast majority of Z owners, I suspect.
But right now, I think it is very legitimate to want to know more about the Z before buying, and to be concerned that it is not fully engineered for hard track duty. Right now, it seems pretty clear that if you want to run continuous laps at a pace near that of a pro driver, you can't do it in the C7Z - you have to run occasional cool down laps or make modifications (which are thus far not entirely proven). Nothing is necessarily wrong with that, the Z is a fantastic GT car, perhaps the best performance value available, but apparently just not up to the task of being driven continuously at max pace on track. That is an acceptable mission for the vast majority of Z owners, I suspect.
And my GT-R runs on 0W40 both on the street and on track, 7 years running now. No need for higher viscosity, 500 mile initial oil changes or any such thing. It just runs and runs. Need more power, add some bolt ons, no problems. That is why I have ben so disappointed in my C7 on track. I thought GM had engineered it properly for the track. They have not and they have no solutions whatsoever.
08-25-2015, 09:37 PM
#64
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08-25-2015, 09:41 PM
#65
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No, no cover up. I have a 2015 Z07 that is highly modified that I normally track, it will be on the cover of corvette magazine next month.
This is a 2016 Z06 that is actually one of my customers cars. It is bone stock. We were preparing a before and after.
Basically tracking the car bone stock before we built it, then we were going to track it again after the build was complete and record the differences.
This is a 2016 Z06 that is actually one of my customers cars. It is bone stock. We were preparing a before and after.
Basically tracking the car bone stock before we built it, then we were going to track it again after the build was complete and record the differences.
08-25-2015, 10:01 PM
#66
Drifting
Wow. So much FUD. I have heard of just a handful of engines failing catastrophically of the perhaps 10,000 built so far (already 8,200 as of April). So you have the most powerful engine GM has ever built, then one in a thousand fails, and people act like the sky is falling! GM appears to be honouring the warranty on these so worst case you get a new engine. Not sure what all the fuss is about.
08-25-2015, 10:38 PM
#68
Well said. I am now considering upgrading by selling my Z51 and buying AMG GT-S. Test drove one last week. What a nice car.
And my GT-R runs on 0W40 both on the street and on track, 7 years running now. No need for higher viscosity, 500 mile initial oil changes or any such thing. It just runs and runs. Need more power, add some bolt ons, no problems. That is why I have ben so disappointed in my C7 on track. I thought GM had engineered it properly for the track. They have not and they have no solutions whatsoever.
And my GT-R runs on 0W40 both on the street and on track, 7 years running now. No need for higher viscosity, 500 mile initial oil changes or any such thing. It just runs and runs. Need more power, add some bolt ons, no problems. That is why I have ben so disappointed in my C7 on track. I thought GM had engineered it properly for the track. They have not and they have no solutions whatsoever.
08-25-2015, 11:28 PM
#70
My whole point was I've always liked the GM small block because it's a durable, tough, relatively cheap, easy to work on, powerful, reliable engine. I've had good luck with my GM trucks, my LS1, LS3, and current LS9. I've also seen GM 5.3/6.0 trucks at the construction company I'm with go 200k+ miles, sometimes 300k with minimal issues.
When GM built the LS9, there were a few failures, but it's basically been a bulletproof engine. Same deal with the LS1, LS3, etc.
I hope GM built the LT1 and LT4 to the same standard. I guess jury is still out. You should be able to toss Pennzoil barrel crap in an LT1 and LT4 and it should run OKAY around town and maybe a little at the track (before oil temps get too high).
Any engine that is finicky enough to need the correct viscosity of oil and to have an 500 mile oil change or it might blow up seems to have some serious production and design tolerance issues.
I've run 5W30 Mobil 1 in my LS9 for coming up on 5 years and I have beat the **** out of the car at tracks all over Texas and into Oklahoma with zero issues. Sure, the oil and coolant get hot when it's warmer out and that's well documented, but that's expected with my 100% stock powertrain/radiator/HE.
I really hope they continue to refine the LT4 and whatever they come out with next in the next Zora/ZR1 and make sure it's a bulletproof engine too. Finally, statistically considering the number of LT4's on the road it may already be a comparable super strong engine similar to the LS9 durability. Remember, only 4,500 or so LS9's are on the road in the C6 ZR1. That was it for production. I think there is more than double that number LT4's on the road barely into the second year of production. Failures are going to be higher due to the higher number of cars.
I've heard of less than five LS9 failures personally. So, being equal, there could be double that number LT4 failures and it could be fine statistically comparable to the LS9. That said, it sucks when the LT4 that blows is yours.
Okay, I'm rambling.
When GM built the LS9, there were a few failures, but it's basically been a bulletproof engine. Same deal with the LS1, LS3, etc.
I hope GM built the LT1 and LT4 to the same standard. I guess jury is still out. You should be able to toss Pennzoil barrel crap in an LT1 and LT4 and it should run OKAY around town and maybe a little at the track (before oil temps get too high).
Any engine that is finicky enough to need the correct viscosity of oil and to have an 500 mile oil change or it might blow up seems to have some serious production and design tolerance issues.
I've run 5W30 Mobil 1 in my LS9 for coming up on 5 years and I have beat the **** out of the car at tracks all over Texas and into Oklahoma with zero issues. Sure, the oil and coolant get hot when it's warmer out and that's well documented, but that's expected with my 100% stock powertrain/radiator/HE.
I really hope they continue to refine the LT4 and whatever they come out with next in the next Zora/ZR1 and make sure it's a bulletproof engine too. Finally, statistically considering the number of LT4's on the road it may already be a comparable super strong engine similar to the LS9 durability. Remember, only 4,500 or so LS9's are on the road in the C6 ZR1. That was it for production. I think there is more than double that number LT4's on the road barely into the second year of production. Failures are going to be higher due to the higher number of cars.
I've heard of less than five LS9 failures personally. So, being equal, there could be double that number LT4 failures and it could be fine statistically comparable to the LS9. That said, it sucks when the LT4 that blows is yours.
Okay, I'm rambling.
08-26-2015, 06:52 AM
#72
About 28,000 miles so far, and 7-12 track days per year, 150 miles per track day, 7 30 minute session per day, so perhaps 10-12,000 miles on track. My GT-R has never been to the dealer for any repair whatsoever.
My C7 has been to the dealer for repairs 5 times in just over 1 year. GM keeps putting the same parts on and they keep failing (AFM actuators), plus they have no solution for overheating issues.
My C7 has been to the dealer for repairs 5 times in just over 1 year. GM keeps putting the same parts on and they keep failing (AFM actuators), plus they have no solution for overheating issues.
08-26-2015, 08:52 AM
#74
Burning Brakes
08-26-2015, 09:03 AM
#75
Le Mans Master
08-26-2015, 09:30 AM
#76
Been off the forums for awhile after I sold my C4 race car but will be getting back in shortly. I've had 4 Corvettes so I'm obviously a Corvette guy and love them. I teach HPDE and am the race track constantly. Just saying so you know I'm not here to bash.
I know of 6 C7's and ZO6s that have blown up so far. One C7 had a major engine problem at our track just last week. So far the story is overheating with the C7's and there is obviously something going on with the LT4 engine. History says it is probable that it is an oiling issue as it was with LS3's. LS7's have bad valve seats that ending up causing a valve to drop. I've seen both blow up also. LS7's can be remedied by a 2K fix to change the seats and LS3's by dry sumping the motor. The most robust stock motor is probably the LS6 (although the LS7 is the one I want).
My opinion is I wouldn't be looking at a 2015 model yet until this is remedied. It has nothng to do with oil changes or anything else. It's a design flaw either in the cooling system jackets or underhood temperatures and/ or internally. Again, probably oil pressure loss due to a poorly designed oiling system, dry sumped or otherwise. I drove one two weeks ago on track with a student. What a car!! Amazing, gorgeous, and the stock factory exhaust sound on track when you back off the throttle is outstanding.
I know of 6 C7's and ZO6s that have blown up so far. One C7 had a major engine problem at our track just last week. So far the story is overheating with the C7's and there is obviously something going on with the LT4 engine. History says it is probable that it is an oiling issue as it was with LS3's. LS7's have bad valve seats that ending up causing a valve to drop. I've seen both blow up also. LS7's can be remedied by a 2K fix to change the seats and LS3's by dry sumping the motor. The most robust stock motor is probably the LS6 (although the LS7 is the one I want).
My opinion is I wouldn't be looking at a 2015 model yet until this is remedied. It has nothng to do with oil changes or anything else. It's a design flaw either in the cooling system jackets or underhood temperatures and/ or internally. Again, probably oil pressure loss due to a poorly designed oiling system, dry sumped or otherwise. I drove one two weeks ago on track with a student. What a car!! Amazing, gorgeous, and the stock factory exhaust sound on track when you back off the throttle is outstanding.
08-26-2015, 09:47 AM
#77
Been off the forums for awhile after I sold my C4 race car but will be getting back in shortly. I've had 4 Corvettes so I'm obviously a Corvette guy and love them. I teach HPDE and am the race track constantly. Just saying so you know I'm not here to bash.
I know of 6 C7's and ZO6s that have blown up so far. One C7 had a major engine problem at our track just last week. So far the story is overheating with the C7's and there is obviously something going on with the LT4 engine. History says it is probable that it is an oiling issue as it was with LS3's. LS7's have bad valve seats that ending up causing a valve to drop. I've seen both blow up also. LS7's can be remedied by a 2K fix to change the seats and LS3's by dry sumping the motor. The most robust stock motor is probably the LS6 (although the LS7 is the one I want).
My opinion is I wouldn't be looking at a 2015 model yet until this is remedied. It has nothng to do with oil changes or anything else. It's a design flaw either in the cooling system jackets or underhood temperatures and/ or internally. Again, probably oil pressure loss due to a poorly designed oiling system, dry sumped or otherwise. I drove one two weeks ago on track with a student. What a car!! Amazing, gorgeous, and the stock factory exhaust sound on track when you back off the throttle is outstanding.
I know of 6 C7's and ZO6s that have blown up so far. One C7 had a major engine problem at our track just last week. So far the story is overheating with the C7's and there is obviously something going on with the LT4 engine. History says it is probable that it is an oiling issue as it was with LS3's. LS7's have bad valve seats that ending up causing a valve to drop. I've seen both blow up also. LS7's can be remedied by a 2K fix to change the seats and LS3's by dry sumping the motor. The most robust stock motor is probably the LS6 (although the LS7 is the one I want).
My opinion is I wouldn't be looking at a 2015 model yet until this is remedied. It has nothng to do with oil changes or anything else. It's a design flaw either in the cooling system jackets or underhood temperatures and/ or internally. Again, probably oil pressure loss due to a poorly designed oiling system, dry sumped or otherwise. I drove one two weeks ago on track with a student. What a car!! Amazing, gorgeous, and the stock factory exhaust sound on track when you back off the throttle is outstanding.
08-26-2015, 09:58 AM
#78
Sure it does, but really, do you want a brand new car that's possibly going to inconvenience you by eating itself. I wouldn't. Modding?? Why? You have a car that can hit 60 in 3.2 seconds and destroy just about anything on track totally stock. And don't be modding it before the warranty is over for sure.
08-26-2015, 10:13 AM
#79
Been off the forums for awhile after I sold my C4 race car but will be getting back in shortly. I've had 4 Corvettes so I'm obviously a Corvette guy and love them. I teach HPDE and am the race track constantly. Just saying so you know I'm not here to bash.
I know of 6 C7's and ZO6s that have blown up so far. One C7 had a major engine problem at our track just last week. So far the story is overheating with the C7's and there is obviously something going on with the LT4 engine. History says it is probable that it is an oiling issue as it was with LS3's. LS7's have bad valve seats that ending up causing a valve to drop. I've seen both blow up also. LS7's can be remedied by a 2K fix to change the seats and LS3's by dry sumping the motor. The most robust stock motor is probably the LS6 (although the LS7 is the one I want).
My opinion is I wouldn't be looking at a 2015 model yet until this is remedied. It has nothng to do with oil changes or anything else. It's a design flaw either in the cooling system jackets or underhood temperatures and/ or internally. Again, probably oil pressure loss due to a poorly designed oiling system, dry sumped or otherwise. I drove one two weeks ago on track with a student. What a car!! Amazing, gorgeous, and the stock factory exhaust sound on track when you back off the throttle is outstanding.
I know of 6 C7's and ZO6s that have blown up so far. One C7 had a major engine problem at our track just last week. So far the story is overheating with the C7's and there is obviously something going on with the LT4 engine. History says it is probable that it is an oiling issue as it was with LS3's. LS7's have bad valve seats that ending up causing a valve to drop. I've seen both blow up also. LS7's can be remedied by a 2K fix to change the seats and LS3's by dry sumping the motor. The most robust stock motor is probably the LS6 (although the LS7 is the one I want).
My opinion is I wouldn't be looking at a 2015 model yet until this is remedied. It has nothng to do with oil changes or anything else. It's a design flaw either in the cooling system jackets or underhood temperatures and/ or internally. Again, probably oil pressure loss due to a poorly designed oiling system, dry sumped or otherwise. I drove one two weeks ago on track with a student. What a car!! Amazing, gorgeous, and the stock factory exhaust sound on track when you back off the throttle is outstanding.
08-26-2015, 10:23 AM
#80
Le Mans Master
Been off the forums for awhile after I sold my C4 race car but will be getting back in shortly. I've had 4 Corvettes so I'm obviously a Corvette guy and love them. I teach HPDE and am the race track constantly. Just saying so you know I'm not here to bash.
I know of 6 C7's and ZO6s that have blown up so far. One C7 had a major engine problem at our track just last week. So far the story is overheating with the C7's and there is obviously something going on with the LT4 engine. History says it is probable that it is an oiling issue as it was with LS3's. LS7's have bad valve seats that ending up causing a valve to drop. I've seen both blow up also. LS7's can be remedied by a 2K fix to change the seats and LS3's by dry sumping the motor. The most robust stock motor is probably the LS6 (although the LS7 is the one I want).
My opinion is I wouldn't be looking at a 2015 model yet until this is remedied. It has nothng to do with oil changes or anything else. It's a design flaw either in the cooling system jackets or underhood temperatures and/ or internally. Again, probably oil pressure loss due to a poorly designed oiling system, dry sumped or otherwise. I drove one two weeks ago on track with a student. What a car!! Amazing, gorgeous, and the stock factory exhaust sound on track when you back off the throttle is outstanding.
I know of 6 C7's and ZO6s that have blown up so far. One C7 had a major engine problem at our track just last week. So far the story is overheating with the C7's and there is obviously something going on with the LT4 engine. History says it is probable that it is an oiling issue as it was with LS3's. LS7's have bad valve seats that ending up causing a valve to drop. I've seen both blow up also. LS7's can be remedied by a 2K fix to change the seats and LS3's by dry sumping the motor. The most robust stock motor is probably the LS6 (although the LS7 is the one I want).
My opinion is I wouldn't be looking at a 2015 model yet until this is remedied. It has nothng to do with oil changes or anything else. It's a design flaw either in the cooling system jackets or underhood temperatures and/ or internally. Again, probably oil pressure loss due to a poorly designed oiling system, dry sumped or otherwise. I drove one two weeks ago on track with a student. What a car!! Amazing, gorgeous, and the stock factory exhaust sound on track when you back off the throttle is outstanding.
Perhaps you missed this?
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/...ngine-problem/