Unimpressed
06-09-2015, 09:41 AM
#61
So as not to be misunderstood, I love the C7 ZO6. 1G1YY2D61F5606612 is sitting in my garage as I type this. I bought it yesterday from Serra Chevrolet in Bartlett TN. It's a fantastic car. I just don't think that the supercharger is right for the road-course. I bought mine to be a street car. What a novel idea...
A beginning or intermediate DE student on a cool day might have no issues when tracking the car. But, I would. Tadge said that they needed big numbers to differentiate the car. Hence the supercharger. Most ZO6 owners will not track the car. The supercharger is a great solution for big numbers in a street car. The car is still very, very capable. It is an awesome car. However, heat is the elephant in the room on the road course. A power-adding device that spins at 20,000 rpm, or whatever, will generate big-time heat. There's no way around it. Heat will create problems. Does that fact bother me? No, because I bought the car for the street, and I plan to have a lot of fun with it zinging around town and back and forth to work.
So again, I wouldn't have just spent $100K on a car I don't love and respect. I'll drive the crap out of it. I'll be crossed-up around every corner and I'll be leaning into that supercharger every chance I get. It just won't be continuously for 20-30 minutes straight.
A beginning or intermediate DE student on a cool day might have no issues when tracking the car. But, I would. Tadge said that they needed big numbers to differentiate the car. Hence the supercharger. Most ZO6 owners will not track the car. The supercharger is a great solution for big numbers in a street car. The car is still very, very capable. It is an awesome car. However, heat is the elephant in the room on the road course. A power-adding device that spins at 20,000 rpm, or whatever, will generate big-time heat. There's no way around it. Heat will create problems. Does that fact bother me? No, because I bought the car for the street, and I plan to have a lot of fun with it zinging around town and back and forth to work.
So again, I wouldn't have just spent $100K on a car I don't love and respect. I'll drive the crap out of it. I'll be crossed-up around every corner and I'll be leaning into that supercharger every chance I get. It just won't be continuously for 20-30 minutes straight.
06-09-2015, 09:48 AM
#62
Team Owner
Member Since: Aug 1999
Location: Florida
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St. Jude Donor '10
Do some research if you don't believe me. One of the owners of both cars posts regularly on the forum. I never said you had a Callaway Z06, I said his car was sent for the upgraded supercharger at Callaway.
Making some outlandish claim with no facts to back it up is kind of ridiculous.
Making some outlandish claim with no facts to back it up is kind of ridiculous.
Last edited by SurfnSun; 06-09-2015 at 02:36 PM.
06-09-2015, 11:01 AM
#63
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I am unclear what you are saying. Do you disagree with those who have experienced overheating or are questioning "why" it overheats? If it is the former, I have to respectfully tell you this is no longer a question, and if it is the second, you, me, and everyone else is trying to figure out how to solve the problem. Best
If Ignorance is bliss, you've found positive nirvana. I'll leave this with an admonition from my mother....'Never argue with an idiot; they just drag you down to their level and defeat you with experience.'
Enjoy your new Z, but if you're not going to track it - what with your "20 years of SCCA racing" experience and all - why did you bother???
Enjoy your new Z, but if you're not going to track it - what with your "20 years of SCCA racing" experience and all - why did you bother???
06-09-2015, 12:06 PM
#64
I am unclear what you are saying. Do you disagree with those who have experienced overheating or are questioning "why" it overheats? If it is the former, I have to respectfully tell you this is no longer a question, and if it is the second, you, me, and everyone else is trying to figure out how to solve the problem. Best
The on-track overheating experienced by some forum posters, Is. Not. Caused. By. Elevated. Charge-Air. Temperatures. Because they do not occur in the C7Z06. People are consistently confusing supercharger induced CAT with fluid temperatures. They are not the same and are unrelated to each other.
The only correlation between the blower and overheat conditions is the blower makes 650 HP possible and apparently in certain circumstances the heat produced taking 650 HP out of the motor exceeds the heat-rejection capabilities of the engine cooling systems. That is an entirely different matter from charge-air temps; the temperature of the air entering the intake manifold post-blower and intercooler.
Last edited by rsalco; 06-09-2015 at 12:33 PM.
06-09-2015, 12:28 PM
#65
Melting Slicks
I'll make this as simple as is possible:
The on-track overheating experienced by some forum posters, Is. Not. Caused. By. Elevated. Charge-Air. Temperatures. Because they do not occur in the C7Z06. People are consistently confusing supercharger induced CAI with fluid temperatures. They are not the same and are unrelated to each other.
The only correlation between the blower and overheat conditions is the blower makes 650 HP possible and apparently in certain circumstances the heat produced taking 650 HP out of the motor exceeds the heat-rejection capabilities of the engine cooling systems. That is an entirely different matter from charge-air temps; the temperature of the air entering the intake manifold post-blower and intercooler.
The on-track overheating experienced by some forum posters, Is. Not. Caused. By. Elevated. Charge-Air. Temperatures. Because they do not occur in the C7Z06. People are consistently confusing supercharger induced CAI with fluid temperatures. They are not the same and are unrelated to each other.
The only correlation between the blower and overheat conditions is the blower makes 650 HP possible and apparently in certain circumstances the heat produced taking 650 HP out of the motor exceeds the heat-rejection capabilities of the engine cooling systems. That is an entirely different matter from charge-air temps; the temperature of the air entering the intake manifold post-blower and intercooler.
06-09-2015, 12:37 PM
#66
Why is it that so many people, even owners apparently, can't understand that elevated IATs are not the issue causing the overheating issue on a road course, but the fact that the car has 650 hp and does not come from the factory with the necessary hardware to help the engine run relatively cool during an HPDE. Mind boggling!
06-09-2015, 01:12 PM
#68
Melting Slicks
The car needs a secondary EOC and all will be well, IMHO.
Bish
06-09-2015, 05:00 PM
#71
Burning Brakes
Absolutely--the C8!!!! For those of us that already have these cars it is too late. I never intended to track the car just wanted to have a great road car... Knew the problems with the car when I bought it.
Last edited by Busa Dave; 06-09-2015 at 05:06 PM.
06-09-2015, 05:49 PM
#72
Pro
Yes AFE installed. Cannot see how it mattered. Imo , notwithstanding brake fluid and other minor adjustments , the car needs better cooling whether radiator, cooler per se, meth, etc. granted 96 degrees is extreme and after the first lap my gas pedal was to the floor, but still! Best
I think that street oriented cars should probably only be driven at 7/10's in order to last a session. With that said, your 7/10's is probably most weekend warriors 10/10's. Still, it's hard to call it "The Most Track Capable Corvette Ever," and it only makes it 4 laps because the car freaks out.
Talk to a reall owner at a show and get the truth.
...or you could talk to a real owner at a Road couse and find out how the car really behaves.
Thanks gm happy camper here. No complaints here. I guess they have to much time on there hand or is it the competition bad mouthing a great car gm built??????? also i have a race coming up with a hell cat. Lots of talk of it being fast we will see at the strip!!!! If it walks the talk.
Why not race something similar to the Z06.. like a similarly prepped Viper, and then compare.
06-09-2015, 10:04 PM
#73
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I appreciate "defense" but for those who have an I.Q. over 5 there is nothing to say and for the rest, no matter what is said, they will maintain a variation of "you/we are wrong". This forum permits expression without responsibility, so no one should take personal offense. Very "selfishly" we all can "learn" from one another each others experiences and from those with "data" and "knowledge" be helped to have a more enjoyable automotive experience.
I have raced cars for years. No one "races" a supercharged car, period, end of sentence.
I suspect, what GM means when they say a "track ready car", is a car that can be driven on a race track and turn a respectable time, as well as driven as a daily driver. I doubt they ever meant that the new Z06 would be a competitive" race car. For those who drag race, which I do not, I have no idea what happens, but for me, who knows a bit about road racing, I have raced about everything but a shopping cart with a motor, and know a couple of things. Maybe others will not have the same experience, who knows. However, there are not allot of variables; Either (a) the car is different (set up, cooling, etc.) and/or (b) the way the car is driven is different. After that it has to do with temperature and track and somehow insuring we compare "apples to apples". Many here can disagree because their experience differs, but too many seem to jump to the conclusion that those with a differing experience or view point have an ulterior motive, is intentionally trying to mislead, or in some (worse) cases, lying. Best
I have raced cars for years. No one "races" a supercharged car, period, end of sentence.
I suspect, what GM means when they say a "track ready car", is a car that can be driven on a race track and turn a respectable time, as well as driven as a daily driver. I doubt they ever meant that the new Z06 would be a competitive" race car. For those who drag race, which I do not, I have no idea what happens, but for me, who knows a bit about road racing, I have raced about everything but a shopping cart with a motor, and know a couple of things. Maybe others will not have the same experience, who knows. However, there are not allot of variables; Either (a) the car is different (set up, cooling, etc.) and/or (b) the way the car is driven is different. After that it has to do with temperature and track and somehow insuring we compare "apples to apples". Many here can disagree because their experience differs, but too many seem to jump to the conclusion that those with a differing experience or view point have an ulterior motive, is intentionally trying to mislead, or in some (worse) cases, lying. Best
If you're a GT-2 caliber driver, I don't think there are many cars that will keep up with you for more than 4 laps before exposing a weakpoint.
I think that street oriented cars should probably only be driven at 7/10's in order to last a session. With that said, your 7/10's is probably most weekend warriors 10/10's. Still, it's hard to call it "The Most Track Capable Corvette Ever," and it only makes it 4 laps because the car freaks out.
Apples/Broccoli comparison. You're talking about a couple of dragstrip run with non-stock tires and plenty of cool-down, maybe 2 minutes of full throttle and light braking for the whole day. The OP is talking about a stock car on road course that runs under full throttle and heavy braking continually, and didn't make it more than 10 minutes in one sitting.
...or you could talk to a real owner at a Road couse and find out how the car really behaves.
I'm glad you're enjoying your car, but not everyone drag races their Z06. Who cares about the Hellcat. Why not race something similar to the Z06.. like a similarly prepped Viper, and then compare.
I think that street oriented cars should probably only be driven at 7/10's in order to last a session. With that said, your 7/10's is probably most weekend warriors 10/10's. Still, it's hard to call it "The Most Track Capable Corvette Ever," and it only makes it 4 laps because the car freaks out.
Apples/Broccoli comparison. You're talking about a couple of dragstrip run with non-stock tires and plenty of cool-down, maybe 2 minutes of full throttle and light braking for the whole day. The OP is talking about a stock car on road course that runs under full throttle and heavy braking continually, and didn't make it more than 10 minutes in one sitting.
...or you could talk to a real owner at a Road couse and find out how the car really behaves.I'm glad you're enjoying your car, but not everyone drag races their Z06. Who cares about the Hellcat.
Why not race something similar to the Z06.. like a similarly prepped Viper, and then compare.
06-10-2015, 12:10 PM
#74
Can someone explain something please? What aspect of CC brake systems makes them more immune to boiling the fluid?
Isn't the same amount of power being dumped into the brake assembly? The CC advantage being the rotor is less affected by the heat?
Isn't the same amount of power being dumped into the brake assembly? The CC advantage being the rotor is less affected by the heat?
06-10-2015, 12:26 PM
#75
And they don't transfer as much of this heat to the caliper and in-turn to the fluid.
http://www.whyhighend.com/carbon-ceramic-brakes.html
Last edited by dar02081961; 06-10-2015 at 12:30 PM.
06-10-2015, 12:48 PM
#76
"Apples/Broccoli comparison. You're talking about a couple of dragstrip run with non-stock tires" and plenty of cool-down, maybe 2 minutes of full throttle and light braking for the whole day. The OP is talking about a stock car on road course that runs under full throttle and heavy braking continually, and didn't make it more than 10 minutes in one sitting"
You do know that the record for a bone stock Z06 is 10.42.
You do know that the record for a bone stock Z06 is 10.42.
06-10-2015, 01:01 PM
#77
Burning Brakes
I'm going to wait a bit before I order. Let's get a bit farther into the summer. I'm still thinking it's a quality control issue because some tracked cars do not overheat.
06-10-2015, 07:33 PM
#78
Pro
I'm going to chime in with complete agreement with the posts of RBK and bradsvette57. I also raced SCCA GT2 and GT3 classes for years, winning 3 yearly championships. Yes, those who shift up at 3-4000 RPMs and claiming no overheating issues can not fathom the extra demands of holding the car in its REAL power ranges, near the redline.
I also fess up for not owning a ZO6 but, the NA '15 Stingray. I could have afforded a ZO6 but, after reading all the heat issues here I decided that the SC version was not in my future. I already own a factory stock SC car with a 5.0 engine and know all about heat issues. The only reason I come to the ZO6 forum is to see if any aftermarket solutions are being discussed.
The heat issues are not limited to track running. Not even limited to public road driving far over the posted speed limits. Even with my NA engine, running tight, steep, winding canyon roads, still mostly close to the local 55 MPH speed limits, shoots the engine oil temps sky-high in my car. I basically have no more than 2-4 minutes of redline enjoyment in 2nd or 3rd gears before having to shut the power off.
I guess, GM has figured that owners would "only" pleasure cruise these cars, at which practice there are zero issues. All my temps were stable when cruising at low RPMs even on days, like Monday, with the highs reaching 105 F during my 230 miles mountain drives. Still, in my book, no excuse for saving the relatively few bucks by omitting the proper cooling capacity for more spirited driving. It should have cost GM about $100 to include the proper oil cooling but, it is going to costs us way over $1000 to fix the results.
I also fess up for not owning a ZO6 but, the NA '15 Stingray. I could have afforded a ZO6 but, after reading all the heat issues here I decided that the SC version was not in my future. I already own a factory stock SC car with a 5.0 engine and know all about heat issues. The only reason I come to the ZO6 forum is to see if any aftermarket solutions are being discussed.
The heat issues are not limited to track running. Not even limited to public road driving far over the posted speed limits. Even with my NA engine, running tight, steep, winding canyon roads, still mostly close to the local 55 MPH speed limits, shoots the engine oil temps sky-high in my car. I basically have no more than 2-4 minutes of redline enjoyment in 2nd or 3rd gears before having to shut the power off.
I guess, GM has figured that owners would "only" pleasure cruise these cars, at which practice there are zero issues. All my temps were stable when cruising at low RPMs even on days, like Monday, with the highs reaching 105 F during my 230 miles mountain drives. Still, in my book, no excuse for saving the relatively few bucks by omitting the proper cooling capacity for more spirited driving. It should have cost GM about $100 to include the proper oil cooling but, it is going to costs us way over $1000 to fix the results.
Last edited by axr6; 06-10-2015 at 07:43 PM.
06-10-2015, 07:49 PM
#79
Le Mans Master
It's funny in this thread the OP is too experienced and in another thread where the Z06 had track issues the OP was not experienced enough
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...track-day.html
Guess there is a magical sweet spot of experience that is just right - Not too good, but not too inexperienced either. Like Goldilocks and the three bears. But I'm not into fairy tales.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...track-day.html
Guess there is a magical sweet spot of experience that is just right - Not too good, but not too inexperienced either. Like Goldilocks and the three bears. But I'm not into fairy tales.
06-10-2015, 08:30 PM
#80
Why have all the factory aero in a car that WILL overheat when driven by talented drivers in high ambient temperatures?
As for the Nurburgring lap time, I am much more interested in the third, and fourth lap times...
As for the Nurburgring lap time, I am much more interested in the third, and fourth lap times...