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Indeed. It seems the only people that the Z06 disappoints are the people that were never going to buy one anyway (like the OP). The owners seem like a happy bunch.
The Stingray had a like group of detractors when it was introduced. Thankfully, most have left, let's hope the Z06 whiners will follow soon.
Jimmy
OK, this might apply to OP and his trollish ways, but to make such a blanket statement is other wise nonsense. There is no way to gauge that statement. I sincerely congrat any new C7Z owner and don't deny in any way that the car is a bargain, but have my own feelings of disappointment with the car. On another note, for some, this is their first real sports car and have nothing from their past to compare it with so they're over joyed and great for them, but lets be real here-some others are just total GM or Corvette fanboys who take any kind of criticism/disappointment/competition from others as trolling or jealousy. Theres immaturity on both sides of the fence.
Originally Posted by js59
I'm a bit disappointed - and I wouldn't say that I won't ever buy one. I have a C7 Z51 and I love it. But, I have to say that I'm disppointed after all of the track hype that was generated around this car. Will I ever use the full track capabilities? Probably not. But I'm guessing I am no different than 90% of the people on here - I want to know that my vette COULD whip your car's tail - even if I never do.
If you are UFC fan, it's like walking the streets as Jon Jones. You aren't going to kick everyone's (or probably anyone's) a$$ that you walk by, but it probably feels pretty good knowing you could. And the fact that everyone knows Jon Jones will whip them means they won't even mess with him. Maybe I'm the only one on the forum that wants to feel like my car is better (the best?) than yours, but I really doubt it!!
Nobody wants to pay money for quality, that's why GM cuts corners and saves money on every nut and bolt. This is pure marking - they make what people want. This is why the REAL track capable car like Porsche GT3 much more expansive.
GM made the car capable of completing one or two lap and nobody cares what happens next. It is enough to show a lap time, make people happy and make sells. You got what you paid for. It is very simple.
This is where we have an issue. There are 3 distinct Z06s--base car, one aero upgrade up, and the Z07. GM could easily have made the Z07 really track worthy and priced it at, say, 130K, to cover the extra work and expensive parts. Truly. Maybe they only sell 100 Z07s as such each year, but they would still sell thousands of Z06/1s and Z06/2s.
In short, GM had market and option room to make a GT3 or GT3RS out of the Z07 package but didn't and I think that is annoying. People who do not want to ever see a racetrack could get a non-Z07 car. All are happy. Since Tadge mentioned it was the "most track capable Corvette ever," we all expected more of the Z07 package.
Based on my research of times, the C7Z06 beat the ZR1 by 2.5 seconds on a relatively short track. How is that poor performance? It's clear the "most downforce" is limiting it's acceleration on the straights acting like a hand of god pushing down on the vehicle. However when you factor in price, it's still pretty amazing performance. The disappointing aspect is Pobst complaining about pulling power after a few laps, I'm assuming.
Speed is not a concern about this car. Pobst was complaining about putting power down to rear wheels and lack of rear traction. I can see it based on his data (speed vs distance). This easily can be fixed by simple alignment changes. When there are Jim Mero with GM engineers are at the track with team of mechanics, you can get different results. Like js59 sad GM made the car for those who wants to know that my vette COULD whip your car's tail.
The most important problem is cooling. After only one lap the car looses power and overheats. I'm sure GM will not solve this problem without doing major modifications. Supercharger is very bad idea for track car as well. I think you you are concerned about track time and track performance - C7Z is not the way to go. It is good car for not competitive Sunday DE driver, but nothing else.
OK, this might apply to OP and his trollish ways, but to make such a blanket statement is other wise nonsense. There is no way to gauge that statement. I sincerely congrat any new C7Z owner and don't deny in any way that the car is a bargain, but have my own feelings of disappointment with the car. On another note, for some, this is their first real sports car and have nothing from their past to compare it with so their over joyed and great for them, but lets be real here-some others are just total GM or Corvette fanboys who take any kind of criticism/disappointment/competition from others as trolling or jealousy. Theres immaturity on both sides of the fence.
Exactly, well said.
You bolded my comment and still didn't understand it, to the point that you felt the need to call it nonsense? Really?
I typed "it seems", not an inclusive "ALL"..... And in the end, the owners do SEEM to be a happy bunch. And, now you are thinking some of the first time owners (the "overjoyed" ones) may not be up to YOUR standards of knowledge in regards to high performance sports cars. Wow, that's a little presumptuous. In the end, every car is compromised in many ways. Your job is to decide which compromises bother you the LEAST. Your list is different from mine, which is different from someone else's, and it is this difference that gets guys like DerStig in trouble. Don't like something about a certain car....fine, say it once. Say it one hundred times and you reap what you sow, which is a ton of pushback from people tired of being lectured to by someone who doesn't own the car in question nor has he even driven it.
You bolded my comment and still didn't understand it, to the point that you felt the need to call it nonsense? Really?
I typed "it seems", not an inclusive "ALL"..... And in the end, the owners do SEEM to be a happy bunch. And, now you are thinking some of the first time owners (the "overjoyed" ones) may not be up to YOUR standards of knowledge in regards to high performance sports cars. Wow, that's a little presumptuous. In the end, every car is compromised in many ways. Your job is to decide which compromises bother you the LEAST. Your list is different from mine, which is different from someone else's, and it is this difference that gets guys like DerStig in trouble. Don't like something about a certain car....fine, say it once. Say it one hundred times and you reap what you sow, which is a ton of pushback from people tired of being lectured to by someone who doesn't own the car in question nor has he even driven it.
Jimmy
you're right dude, everyone who bought 1 is totally happy with it and those who are disappointed in any way with it never intended to buy one in the first place or are just jealous...
Without jumping on BMW Boy (because it's too easy)....
I am surprised that so many say this car has a "tune" issue. It seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that the car has COOLING issues. Tuning out the safeguards so that the car will run even hotter is just stupid. Fix the cooling and then the safeguards (timing pull, etc) don't come into play.
Jimmy
Good point Jimmy -- but if we mod the cooling system that voids the factory warranty too, no?
you're right dude, everyone who bought 1 is totally happy with it and those who are disappointed in any way with it never intended to buy one in the first place or are just jealous...
This place has turned to bash city... reminded me of how the Miami Heat endured all the thrashing, etc. and 4 years later they were in the Finals back to back twice and won 2 out of 4 championships. Same scenario with the Z... it'll win some, it'll lose some. It's competitive, it's close, and as GM stated it has a conservative ECU or contingency approach when pushed towards the limits... so hopefully they seriously and promptly will address that. But it's still the best overall performance value IMO... calling it a complete fail is, again IMO, fickle and narrow-minded.
The Z06/Z07 is alot of car for the money whether it's an 80K or the 110K version. Don't like it? Then go buy that Nismo or better yet that Veyron if 1st place is what you'd like to brag about... the current and future owners will enjoy theirs and they're already doing so!
While I agree with your overall point as a new Z06 owner I am still somewhat disappointed that GM would release the car knowing that the car will not deliver its rated/expected performance for long at the track if driven near or at its limits... this makes me truly respect a car company like Porsche. Their cars live up to their advertised performance at the track and make no excuses.
If you tell the world you have a mean dog with real bite then dammit the dog should hunt...
Last edited by golfnutintib; 02-03-2015 at 08:00 PM.
This is where we have an issue. There are 3 distinct Z06s--base car, one aero upgrade up, and the Z07. GM could easily have made the Z07 really track worthy and priced it at, say, 130K, to cover the extra work and expensive parts. Truly. Maybe they only sell 100 Z07s as such each year, but they would still sell thousands of Z06/1s and Z06/2s.
In short, GM had market and option room to make a GT3 or GT3RS out of the Z07 package but didn't and I think that is annoying. People who do not want to ever see a racetrack could get a non-Z07 car. All are happy. Since Tadge mentioned it was the "most track capable Corvette ever," we all expected more of the Z07 package.
You hit the nail on the head, Quick.
I paid for Level 3 Aero and the Z07 package and believed Tadge saying what he said. Owning the car now for several weeks and breaking it in, I can say it is a terrific, exciting car to drive on the road and it is a well made car overall ...
... but I also have to say I feel a little hosed by GM -- I thought I was buying a track worthy car but now I worry that if used in that way it will grossly underdeliver on its promise, unless I make mods and void the warranty.
So GM is essentially saying, "To use the car the way you thought you could when listening to our marketing, you have to pour more money into it using aftermarket parts/tune and in doing so, we will not stand behind our product if it fails...". That just sucks.
Last edited by golfnutintib; 02-03-2015 at 08:20 PM.
While I agree with your overall point as a new Z06 owner I am still somewhat disappointed that GM would release the car knowing that the car will not deliver its rated/expected performance for long at the track if driven near or at its limits... this makes me truly respect a car company like Porsche. Their cars live up to their advertised performance at the track and make no excuses.
If you tell the world you have a mean dog with real bite then dammit the dog should hunt...
I don't disagree... sure there is some disappointment in regards to the heat/cooling issue that's been reported and who knows, I may encounter the symptoms when I eventually track mine. Tracking the C7 is a blast... did it many times on my ex-Z51 Stingray. But to call the car a complete failure, etc.. by some who doesn't even own one nor haven't driven one on a daily basis is asenine, IMHO.
I also respect other brands... had an M3, had an AMG, currently have a new Porsche as well and a Boss 302 with the new GT350 on my next to do. My point is I'm not a single brand protagonist... so hopefully GM addresses the serious concerns. In the meantime, Z06 owners alike will enjoy their cars and soon to be owners will be in for a nice treat in & out once they have it in their possession.
you're right dude, everyone who bought 1 is totally happy with it and those who are disappointed in any way with it never intended to buy one in the first place or are just jealous...
That might be the worst bit of logic I've ever seen on a car forum. I think you'd be surprised by how little motivation people have to publicly admit to making a $90,000 mistake. To assume that because no one has come out and stated "I spent a lot of money on something and I was foolish to do so" means everyone loves their car is quite a statement. Also, to ASSume people are jealous because they don't agree with your opinion is some proper middle school girl nonsense.
Based on my research of times, the C7Z06 beat the ZR1 by 2.5 seconds on a relatively short track. How is that poor performance? It's clear the "most downforce" is limiting it's acceleration on the straights acting like a hand of god pushing down on the vehicle. However when you factor in price, it's still pretty amazing performance. The disappointing aspect is Pobst complaining about pulling power after a few laps, I'm assuming.
Your research missed that the ZR1 time you are comparing to was done in 2010 when it was only available with the PS2 tires. The Cups became available in '12 and would be more comparable to the Z07 w/ the Cup 2.
I am completely shocked at the reactions of the owners and non-owners. I am shocked that more of them are not seriously disappointed in the performance compared to expectations.
I say this because of the following reactions have flowed something like the following:
1) loses roll race to Viper - response is its designed to be a track monster. all the downforce doing it.
2) loses 1/4 mile runs - response is its designed to be a track monster
3) loses at the track - well, should have used an A8. Or my personal favorite, it is better on the street and cheaper...
Come on folks, the data is screaming right in front of you. Many of you even told all of us how great it would be on the track and just wait. Said it would not overheat. Said the aero would make it happen.
Seems like we should replace high-downforce with high-drag.
Listen, on the street, this car will be great. But how could you honestly own it and claim it is a "track monster"? Anyone that can read could argue a bunch of data exists to suggest it is not what it was promised to be...
So, lets just call it a pretty reasonably priced, very fast street car that you can use as a daily driver. That is effectively what Randy said and at the end of the day, is not how you want a race car driver describing your top of the line sports car.
So what has contributed to the poor performance at Willow Springs? What would you change in the car to improve performance?
How's it going DS. Looks like you're catching your usual amount of abuse from these guys. You're OK man, and don't let these guys get to you. Anybody that has an interest enough in the vette' to brave this abusive bunch and post is a good man in my book. And to the rest of you: Give it a break will you. This is America, this is an open forum, DS has as much right to be here and to his opinion as any of the rest of you knuckle heads. So stick to the subject and stop your character assassinations before you get kicked to the other section. Enough is enough.
As for your questions DS: The lap time recorded by Pobst at WS for the Z, I personally would not consider to be a poor performance by any stretch. The lap time does seem to have fallen, once again, a bit below most everyone's expectations by coming in short of a competitor that, by most everyone's opinion (or hope) on this forum, it should have beat. But this is only one result under one set of conditions by MT. Earlier today, on a different thread, I solicited an explanation for the vast discrepancy between MT's data at WS on these two cars, and C&D's data for the two at VIR, a difference that amounts overall to a staggering 9.5 sec, and in favor of the Z. Of course everyone immediately popped up with "different conditions, different drivers, different car set-ups, different tracks" and on and on. The bottom line on this, which I was trying to get from someone on the other thread, but no one ever picked up on, was: If your question is "which car is faster", there is no way to objectively determine that from these data (MT's or C&D's) because nothing is normalized. So any arguments based on these two totally different results are meaningless from an objective standpoint, which is the only truthful standpoint. Now, (I know this is a bit long-winded but bear with me), if your looking for a subjective answer to the above question, then you can assume any answer that suits you, and you'ld be right. So which car do you like the best? That one is the fastest for you, at least subjectively. These two cars on the track must be fairly close in their performance envelops, else GM would not consider the GT-R for comparison. One can get any answer you're looking for under un-normalized conditions. If you want an objective answer to which is faster, that's a whole other story for another time.
As far as changes to the car, again that's a subjective matter. If you want my opinion on this, I'd either leave it as is or add a better cooling system depending on how bad the heat issue turns out to be, which I think has yet to be fully assessed. Best regards and let's be safe out there. DN
That might be the worst bit of logic I've ever seen on a car forum. I think you'd be surprised by how little motivation people have to publicly admit to making a $90,000 mistake. To assume that because no one has come out and stated "I spent a lot of money on something and I was foolish to do so" means everyone loves their car is quite a statement. Also, to ASSume people are jealous because they don't agree with your opinion is some proper middle school girl nonsense.
read my first post below....turn up the sarcasm radar
Originally Posted by Boba Fett
OK, this might apply to OP and his trollish ways, but to make such a blanket statement is other wise nonsense. There is no way to gauge that statement. I sincerely congrat any new C7Z owner and don't deny in any way that the car is a bargain, but have my own feelings of disappointment with the car. On another note, for some, this is their first real sports car and have nothing from their past to compare it with so their over joyed and great for them, but lets be real here-some others are just total GM or Corvette fanboys who take any kind of criticism/disappointment/competition from others as trolling or jealousy. Theres immaturity on both sides of the fence.
02-03-2015, 04:21 PM
Exactly, well said.
