2006Z06

But that was a first or second year GTR. There have been numerous upgrades to that car in the last four year, and now the Nismo edition. Like I said, give it a year and see if GM will work out the kinks. Took Nissan 4 years to get to this. Plus this is one test on on day by one driver driving one example of a Z06. Let's see a few more and see.

thedak

raj

The argument of AWD having an inherent advantage around a racetrack is not valid and certainly not borne out in competitive racing either. A well sorted RWD car is capable of dominating on any kind of road course. Just as AWD has the advantage on corner exit, RWD is easier to set up for corner entry due to minimal understeer. AWD also increases mass (~150 lbs based on the 911 platform where the exact same chassis can be configured both ways) and drivetrain loss; the former being the enemy of all vehicle dynamics. In fact, equally outfitted, a 911S will beat a C4S on any racetrack under dry conditions.

In the video, Randy briefly mentioned that the GT-R was a bit "loose" on corner entry and then went on correct his observation, calling it "rotation" which he liked (not surprising, since this allows an expert driver to set up the corner without scrubbing speed). This characteristic is unusual for an AWD car, even the GT-R, and may be why the Nismo was almost flawless on that day around Big Willow.

I still believe the Z06 should have run a faster lap than it did but the reality is that no two cars will be identical, and subtle setup variations may make all the difference on a particular track. Also, direct same-day comparisons will quickly highlight each car's weakness in a way that a solo test never will. The Z06 was less settled than the Nismo, but was superior in all the braking zones as well as in the lower speed corners. This may have given it the edge on a shorter track but Big Willow will punish cars that suffer at triple digit velocities which proved to be the Z06's Achilles heel.

TARANTULA

C4s ran better times at Laguna Seca than the C2s. I know it was different days but atleast it was the same driver. Top Gear also did a review granted it was the 997 but the 4 was also faster.

Monts

raj,

I agree with all the points you made but felt there was one contradiction in the two statements above.

With my limited knowledge, it is my belief that it was not a subtle setup variation that made up the difference. It seems rather clear that the big gap in performance was in the triple digit arena (as you also stated).

It is very counterintuitive that a higher horsepower lower weight car is at a disadvantage at the higher speeds. Once this is addressed and sorted out hopefully Z06 will fully live up to its promises\potential.

krisa9977

911S is always faster then C4S in a dry track because of the weight difference. It is a proven fact. On a wet track C4S is faster.
If you drive racing slicks, 4WD will NOT have any advantage over RWD even if 4WD car had the same weight as RWD. You need 4WD only if you don't have enough traction and don't have sticky tire. If you put slicks or stickier Hoosiers on GTR and Vette, GTR will lose all its advantage. This is why there are not that many fast GTRs at competitive racing or Time Trial events.

raj

The issue in that comparison wasn't that it was different days but the fact that the C2S was a 997 and the C4S was a 991. As you know, the 991 was a significant an improvement over its predecessor which no doubt accounts for that delta. Also, see the comment from Krisa.

35. Porsche 911 Carrera 4S (991) 1:39.19 131 '12 400 / 1465 Randy Pobst
36. Porsche 911 Carrera S 1:39.30 131 '11 400 / 1415 Randy Pobst


True, and also the reason why I predicted that the Z06 will run a 1:25:XX lap but we all know how that turned out!

vtknight

I'm sorry but I have to call you out. You say you were a GTR owner - but although you are correct AWD is easier to drive than RWD (and manual vs DCT as well) - it does not drive itself - nor do you have to just point it and steer.

I'm sure - having been an owner - you have a few pics of your car kicking around?

EDIT: as to the R35 GTRs lifespan - it has been out since 2008 (MY2009). That is 7 years - not four. In fact it was first introduced in 2007 at the Tokyo Auto show - so it's technically been around for almost 8 years now.
I'm sure as an owner you knew this though.

thedak

TARANTULA

Both were 991's
http://youtu.be/QUkX2y2qKKo
http://youtu.be/rSKPqKiRDZI

Top gear were 997's
http://youtu.be/mpa0SwE4CW4

Doc New

You should all just answer his post to the best of your ability, instead of attacking him. Mature discussion, that's what this forum is suppose to be about. DN

DerStig

Some people can still do that, but many people are so hung up on which car I drive more than the issues I bring up.

Corvettinator

Well does Chevy really upgrade individual Vette models much? Did we really see that much evolution in C6Z's and ZR1's over their lifetimes?

And that "one driver" is the one driver I would most respect in testing road car on a track. He holds the production car lap records at Willow and Laguna, and is of course a legend.

As for AWD, yeah, its benefits are questionable with the weight gain on a track (even though the top two times at Willow are now from AWD cars!), but the C7Z is not just a track car. Remember the epic butthurt all began with a Viper walking it in a straight line. At some point, the limits of RWD traction are reached on the street with DOT legal tires, and the C7Z is about near it (I don't even want to hear about the burnout king Hellcat). No RWD Vette will run with an AWD GTR or 911 Turbo 0-60 (on the street without 10psi and a burnout), not to mention all the flailing at 1/2 and 1 miles events I've seen by RWD cars.

Considering the epic time the Nismo laid down @ Willow, and the fact it runs 0-60 in the mid-2's, it's time to take AWD seriously as an all-around solution, and I hope the Zora has it, if the Zora is real.

RS4EVA

I'd like to see these points clarified by Randy

"And notice, too, Randy Pobst’s pause between Turns 4 and 5 in the Z06 (avoiding a time-eating gear shift) and his dramatically early braking before Turn 9 due to a lack of total confidence."

These probably easily account for more lost time than the final difference of 1.5 sec.

Also interesting to see how much Randy's opinion differed from the Road Atlanta drive where he was asking for more power and didn't have a bad thing to say about the car, except the seats weren't supportive enough to compensate for the high Gs.

Randy Pobst @RandyPobst · Oct 9
Tried new Vette ZO6, ZO7, and Sting Ray at Rd Atlanta ystdy. Oh, wow, brawny beasts that handle @MotorTrend @IMSA

How is it possible for the same car to have such a different feeling for the same driver.?

11B250

you guys are picking on derstig, but I think he brought up a very good discussion. I don't even understand why you guys are.

I just watched the video today and I was disappointed in what I saw. I'm not a race car driver, and will never do what he does, but I was surprised at the results. After reading about how technologically advanced this car was, randy had his hands full going around that track in the Z

DerStig

A lot of people attack me here, however, I have nothing but good thoughts in my heart about this car. I have been saying this since I signed up here, I'm a German car fan, but I want to buy a Z06. I am sick and tired of overpaying to BMWs and would rather not pay 150k for a GT3 which is what I will end up buying instead of Z06. It's not like I already own a GT3 and post here, no. I am a prospective Z06 owner and I very seriously consider this car as my next purchase.

Every thread I made here was done so based on factual statements. It was never about what "I think", but more so about what "I read" somewhere and I wanted to bring it to this forum's attention so others could chime in. I strongly believe that the more people ask the tough questions in forums such as these, the more likely cars like Corvette will get stronger and stronger. I think manufacturers follow these forums very closely. In fact, I'm pretty sure people in team corvette already read many of these threads (and hopefully my posts). Media works in mysterious ways in today's age. Information is power. So, no, I am not trolling here and no, I am not bashing this car. I want this car to continue evolving and get better. It's almost there!

krisa9977

What technology are you talking about? LS4 engine from 70s with two valves per cylinder and supercharger that produces less horsepower per liter then modern NA engines and overheats after one lap... Or, may be peace of plastic in a rear that creates some downforce along with enormous drag at hight speeds. Technology is the biggest problem for Corvette.

SBC_and_a_stick

A most ignorant and trolling post.

Good technology is meeting design goals with the simplest, cheapest, most reliable solution.
Take the Nissan DOHC V6 in the Z/G37. It's just as big as the LT4, cooling is less effective, and the output is only half.

Show me the lap you did that overheated the Z06. I'll show you that I couldn't in a dozen.

krisa9977

I have no problem with technologies from 70s as long as it meeting all the solutions that you mentioned. Unfortunately the reliability solution is not met and this is technology problem.

SBC_and_a_stick

A reliability problem is having your engine catch on fire (see latest DOHC designs from HONDA - NSX, Porsche - GT3).

With a $130 starting base price, I'm sure GM can make that temp needle stick to 199.99 degrees all day.