When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
You should be embarrassed to post that as your argument. It's better because it makes slightly more HP/TQ stock??? Who leaves their car stock on this forum? Maybe 10%...the waxers only. How about 1.7L vs. 2.3L blowers. That in and of itself makes the LS9 better than the LT4. Now add on all the other complexities that offer ZERO performance benefit and just another part to fail like cylinder deactivation and it's a no brainer. The new Z looks nice and has a nice interior but it isn't a ZR1 replacement...
It's freaking amazing to me that all of you NIM RODS need to refer to a website to find out how fast your car is...Quit your f##king BENCH RACING and get out and race...1991ZO7 tells you all you have to know because when you factor in car weights, IT'S A DRIVER'S RACE..You guys should have done your homework with the 650/650 HP/TQ numbers, considered the weight difference & bought accordingly...Now get out and race your car, win or lose, mod again and race again...THAT'S THE FUN OF IT ALL...You won't win them all, so keep modding...Some one is always faster...Now get off the internet and drive your. ROD...Sheeesh!!!
You should be embarrassed to post that as your argument. It's better because it makes slightly more HP/TQ stock??? Who leaves their car stock on this forum? Maybe 10%...the waxers only. How about 1.7L vs. 2.3L blowers. That in and of itself makes the LS9 better than the LT4. Now add on all the other complexities that offer ZERO performance benefit and just another part to fail like cylinder deactivation and it's a no brainer. The new Z looks nice and has a nice interior but it isn't a ZR1 replacement...
Originally Posted by Dave Schotz
With your logic, then the hellcat must be a better mill than the lt4?
Sorry, it's a bit more than just a simple hp/tq rating.
Dave
Originally Posted by londonk
No your going to have to do better then that ...
1700 vs 2300 I'm not going to give up the ghost yet I'll make you work for it ... Numbers are not everything ... New architecture that's has no track record yet has some validity to my point. Cool aid in your cup tonight ?
Add to the base horsepower numbers the fact that the chassis will hold 1.3+ G's sustained ON STREET TIRES, and the Z06 beats the ZR1 in every metric except how long (you think) your d!ck is...
I'm looking forward to seeing PDR footage of Z07's with race slicks and watching the G circle...it's going to be truly epic to see how badly you guys whine then!
I'm sorry if you think GM owed you an engine that was EASY to modify...they are in the business of building a car to the specs...and delivering it for a certain price point.
Explain to me how much horsepower you could gain from a tune on an LS7 or LS9?
Vengeance has massaged an extra 100 horsepower from their LT4 with a CAI, headers and a tune...so with fairly minor mods you have a 750 hp car...isn't that enough for you? Want more? Then swap out the blower with a 2300 and go to town!
I'm looking forward to seeing what Vengeance does with new cam profiles...I'm guessing they'll unlock another 50 horsepower there...now you're at 800 FWHP. All on a stock block, heads, blower...
I think some don't understand that downforce also equals drag. The more downforce, the more drag, thats what opens the door for the ZR1 or any pre-C7 with lots of motor above say 120mph. And the new Z has different levels of Downforce, so there is a variable depending on how the option sheet was filled out.
Add to the base horsepower numbers the fact that the chassis will hold 1.3+ G's sustained ON STREET TIRES, and the Z06 beats the ZR1 in every metric except how long (you think) your d!ck is...
I'm looking forward to seeing PDR footage of Z07's with race slicks and watching the G circle...it's going to be truly epic to see how badly you guys whine then!
The whining is really quite pathetic.
You're right, here's a Zr1 on Race Tires pulling 1.3 to 1.5 g's???
The Z06 is a great car, and I sure hope with added aero and better Tires it can beat a 5 year old model, so far it doesn't look like it's been able to get past the viper, which is consistently behind the Zr1.
How you keep defending a car that makes 10 more rwhp but weighs 200 more lbs is beyond me.
I think some don't understand that downforce also equals drag. The more downforce, the more drag, thats what opens the door for the ZR1 or any pre-C7 with lots of motor above say 120mph. And the new Z has different levels of Downforce, so there is a variable depending on how the option sheet was filled out.
How dare you bring logic and common sense into a hissy fit by ZR1 owners
It's falling on deaf ears here...their butt-hurt is truly epic. And they are in denial...and it isn't a river in Egypt, either.
There's a very good reason GM hasn't published the .CD numbers on the Z06/Z07...it was DESIGNED from the start to generate downforce, even in the very base aero model. It isn't a slick car to get high MPG figures from...which affect top end speed, but the trolls don't want to hear it.
How dare you bring logic and common sense into a hissy fit by ZR1 owners
It's falling on deaf ears here...their butt-hurt is truly epic. And they are in denial...and it isn't a river in Egypt, either.
There's a very good reason GM hasn't published the .CD numbers on the Z06/Z07...it was DESIGNED from the start to generate downforce, even in the very base aero model. It isn't a slick car to get high MPG figures from...which affect top end speed, but the trolls don't want to hear it.
So the Zr1 guys are trolls ? I going to bet that 95% of the real vette guys on here are not but hurt about the new Z. I'm not hurt one bit. Lets pretend you had a Zr1 for a minute or a c6Z for that matter I'm willing to bet you could never dive those cars within 65% of the capability limit that they offer. Now lets pretend you own a new Zo6 I'm positive you are now down to 50% range or less…… At least your in the 12 second club
It's not conflicting at all. The motivations behind these track times cloud everything GM stands a lot to gain (and lose) if the C7Z is not faster around a track than the ZR1. The fact their big-mouthed marketing man verbally wrote a lot of checks that this car has yet to cash is a sore point for many of us here.
Does Michelin not have the same motivation? I have to agree with your nemesis here - both mfg. companies have an interest in new versions being better than old - so not sure why you would view one as credible and the other as not.
Which checks did Tadge write that you are waiting to cash? Were you hoping for a disclaimer that the Z06 would not win 70-150 mph roll races? The rest of the stats (and roll racing is never one of those), including 0-60, 1/4 mile, braking, figure 8 times, lateral acceleration - and from the magazine reviews, lap times at the track all seem to be on the side of the Z06. I'm not a Z06 owner - and I haven't ordered one either - but that seems to be a pretty good start on a better performance car.
If I'm wrong here, please enlighten me as to the flaw(s) in my logic. I don't spend time on Viper forums, but this whole discussion has me wondering whether there is an army of people over there that consider the ACR a failure since it won't win high speed roll races, standing mile runs or top speed shootouts. I'm willing to make a wager that the answer is no!
GM needs to start releasing new models in the Spring instead of the Winter so instead of the forum blowing up with hypothetical nonsense the forum can blow up with lap times and drag times.
What started as an interesting post has turned into pretty much what would be the result if I went into the ZR1 section and compared C6 to C7 interiors.
Those with ZR1s...fantastic.
Those with C7Z06s...fantastic.
Those with a car on order...don't worry.
Those who 95% will place on order in 2015...great.
Those with a C6Z06...you're still cool.
If you're not one of the above...go away.
If you are one of the above...get your **** together in the New Year and stop these horrible bickering threads....even if you're right....especially if you're wrong.
So the Zr1 guys are trolls ? I going to bet that 95% of the real vette guys on here are not but hurt about the new Z. I'm not hurt one bit. Lets pretend you had a Zr1 for a minute or a c6Z for that matter I'm willing to bet you could never dive those cars within 65% of the capability limit that they offer. Now lets pretend you own a new Zo6 I'm positive you are now down to 50% range or less…… At least your in the 12 second club
Yea...I'm pretty sure I don't know how to drive a car to >65% of it's capabilities...
I've won more FTD's and class autocross wins than I have space to display them. It's a good thing they stopped giving out trophies and plaques 20 years ago...or I would have had boxes of them in storage.
Even after stepping away from it for 10 years...I managed an FTD on my first event back. Yep, I can't possibly find my way around a track.
How often do you go out and actually drive your car on a track?
Yea...I'm pretty sure I don't know how to drive a car to >65% of it's capabilities...
I've won more FTD's and class autocross wins than I have space to display them. It's a good thing they stopped giving out trophies and plaques 20 years ago...or I would have had boxes of them in storage.
Even after stepping away from it for 10 years...I managed an FTD on my first event back. Yep, I can't possibly find my way around a track.
How often do you go out and actually drive your car on a track?
Funny stuff looks like I touched a nerve LOL
I get out enough ... I got Danny Popp in my life lol ....
Funny stuff looks like I touched a nerve LOL
I get out enough ... I got Danny Popp in my life lol ....
Not really touched a nerve...
I just find it interesting that everyone automatically assumes because you are communicating via the net that someone has no skills.
I never (hardly ever ) assume...
And I also require empirical evidence before I come to some stupid conclusion...like this new Z06 is "slower" in the environment it was developed for.
It's not a stretch to believe that the increased downforce GM built into this model would have higher cornering speeds, which balance out the drag at top end where you don't (really) see it that much on a track.
At CotA...there are exactly 3 areas you can go WOT: front straight, chute between T10-T11 and the back straight between T11-T12.
Does that drag/top-end hinder it on the long straights? Yes...but (I believe) the Z06 will more than make up for it as it slips away in the slower sections where the downforce is intended to keep it planted to the track.
The jury is still out on the ability to handle the heat...and until there is very solid evidence of it, I'll tend to believe that it is people with no direct experience spouting B$ because it is what THEY BELIEVE.
And I'm right in there...I have no "direct experience" but I tend to believe that when someone pours the kind of investment into a new model like GM did, and comes out and says it is "the most capable track-ready Corvette" they've ever produced they aren't talking out their a$$.
There is too much liability on GM's end if the car does not live up...
How dare you bring logic and common sense into a hissy fit by ZR1 owners
It's falling on deaf ears here...their butt-hurt is truly epic. And they are in denial...and it isn't a river in Egypt, either.
There's a very good reason GM hasn't published the .CD numbers on the Z06/Z07...it was DESIGNED from the start to generate downforce, even in the very base aero model. It isn't a slick car to get high MPG figures from...which affect top end speed, but the trolls don't want to hear it.
The chief Corvette Engineer(Tadge), in a video where he was talking about the C7 Z06, said the coefficient of drag on the C7 Z06 was from .35 to .37. I have posted the video in some other topics(do a search).
FYI, GM said the Cd of the C6 Z06 was .34 and they also said the Cd of the C6 ZR1 was .35. For comparison purposes, Dodge has stated that the Cd of the 2015 Viper GTS is .369.
I just find it interesting that everyone automatically assumes because you are communicating via the net that someone has no skills.
I never (hardly ever ) assume...
And I also require empirical evidence before I come to some stupid conclusion...like this new Z06 is "slower" in the environment it was developed for.
It's not a stretch to believe that the increased downforce GM built into this model would have higher cornering speeds, which balance out the drag at top end where you don't (really) see it that much on a track.
At CotA...there are exactly 3 areas you can go WOT: front straight, chute between T10-T11 and the back straight between T11-T12.
Does that drag/top-end hinder it on the long straights? Yes...but (I believe) the Z06 will more than make up for it as it slips away in the slower sections where the downforce is intended to keep it planted to the track.
The jury is still out on the ability to handle the heat...and until there is very solid evidence of it, I'll tend to believe that it is people with no direct experience spouting B$ because it is what THEY BELIEVE.
And I'm right in there...I have no "direct experience" but I tend to believe that when someone pours the kind of investment into a new model like GM did, and comes out and says it is "the most capable track-ready Corvette" they've ever produced they aren't talking out their a$$.
There is too much liability on GM's end if the car does not live up...
OK keep drinking cool aid ......the new car is good I'm not saying it's not
I'll be ready this year after we see how the car behaves in the summer.. We what the zr1 does ... Time will tell
I just find it interesting that everyone automatically assumes because you are communicating via the net that someone has no skills.
I never (hardly ever ) assume...
And I also require empirical evidence before I come to some stupid conclusion...like this new Z06 is "slower" in the environment it was developed for.
It's not a stretch to believe that the increased downforce GM built into this model would have higher cornering speeds, which balance out the drag at top end where you don't (really) see it that much on a track.
At CotA...there are exactly 3 areas you can go WOT: front straight, chute between T10-T11 and the back straight between T11-T12.
Does that drag/top-end hinder it on the long straights? Yes...but (I believe) the Z06 will more than make up for it as it slips away in the slower sections where the downforce is intended to keep it planted to the track.
The jury is still out on the ability to handle the heat...and until there is very solid evidence of it, I'll tend to believe that it is people with no direct experience spouting B$ because it is what THEY BELIEVE.
And I'm right in there...I have no "direct experience" but I tend to believe that when someone pours the kind of investment into a new model like GM did, and comes out and says it is "the most capable track-ready Corvette" they've ever produced they aren't talking out their a$$.
There is too much liability on GM's end if the car does not live up...
OK keep drinking cool aid ......the new car is good I'm not saying it's not
I'll be ready this year after we see how the car behaves in the summer.. We know what the zr1 does ... Time will tell
Let me throw another variable in here - IIRC, at this point in the young life of the LT4, there have been as many blown C7Z engines as there have been blown C6ZR engines in total.
No matter, it's going to be an interesting year for Vette lovers. Think I'm waiting for the 2016 model.
Vast majority of owners can't handle any of the cars discussed properly, this is where the new technology with give the new car the advantage. Drivers race- tech edge for the win.
And that's it. GM stated it's quicker, not faster and by all the data coming out like this dyno it makes sense why they called it a Z06 and not ZR1. Its simple, the C7 Z06 would have been an embarrassment to GM to call the next generation ZR1. So here they did something right at least. Called it a Z06 (although no being NA, I'm still happy about it being a C6Z successor). That being said the C7Z looks killer, runs well enough and will no doubt sell very well. The owners just have to accept what they have and enjoy it. Throw away the marketing BS and accept the fact that C6Z/C6ZR1 owners welcome the C7Z into their performance family. Save the wave and don't be pissed when you see a C6Z/C6ZR1 or get beat by one. We are all CORVETTE.
01-01-2015, 01:29 AM
