GM apologists are a detriment to serious C7Z discussion
12-18-2014, 03:04 PM
#141
Another good comparison video - the Viper is fast;
12-18-2014, 03:05 PM
#142
Scraping the splitter.
What about that car that was in the left lane, that same day, that I was in the right lane? Do you feel that black C7Z would trap the same mph as my Viper does? Do you feel that the C7Z could even do 27 passes in a single day, and get faster each time? Funny how you pointed out the DA was much better in the AM that day, but I ran faster as the DA got worse that day. What?! How is this possible?!
I agree that my DA was better, but 125 traps in negative or even zero DA, that isn't very fast. That is further illustrated by the side-by-side video, which you dismiss.
I agree that my DA was better, but 125 traps in negative or even zero DA, that isn't very fast. That is further illustrated by the side-by-side video, which you dismiss.
I have no idea what the black Z would have trapped. I didn't do anything but watch the video once. But I would agree that it appears past ~130 mph or so the Z06 got pulled. To that point...who knows but I would guess assuming equal drivers (ha!) same day, same track the incrementals will be very close and probably not much difference in trap speed. Once you stretch it out to 140...150+ mph, obviously there is a difference. That's not an issue to me, however.
My point all along is your comment was not apples-to-apples from a drag racing perspective. And also I think it is very premature to draw conclusions based on one track outing and a video.
S.
12-18-2014, 03:06 PM
#143
Instructor
Damn, homeboy. All Tony did was ask a question, nicely might I add, and here you go blowing up like a suicide bomber on a mission. Chill out and remember to take your meds. Thats what that long clear container with all of the days of the week is for; to remind you take your damn medicine.
You ran ONE race!!!! with ONE CAR!! and ONE DRIVER! and the heat soak issues are coming from a couple of comments by tuners and one run that Randy made at RA. Big deal. I am not going to get into a word contest over how I feel about the car! As I have said in other posts, lets get some more cars out there on tracks. both drag strip and road courses, and time will tell!!
All of this hype that you and others are promoting is nothing but that!!
Any one reading all of this stuff and making decisions based on it, should just sit back and wait till there are more cars out so we can see what the results are. The SKY IS FALLING!!!! from these few events is so ridiculous. I have talked to Andy Pilgrim last week and he loved the car and spent a lot of time in it, again that is one opinion, just like you have one opinion, as do I. I have the car and am very happy with it, that is all that matters to me!!! You and others are always trying to read some thing into every positive post, get over it!!! some of us really like the car. I don't think the car was over sold!!!! If you do? don't buy it, if you have it and are not happy with it! Sell it. JD
All of this hype that you and others are promoting is nothing but that!!
Any one reading all of this stuff and making decisions based on it, should just sit back and wait till there are more cars out so we can see what the results are. The SKY IS FALLING!!!! from these few events is so ridiculous. I have talked to Andy Pilgrim last week and he loved the car and spent a lot of time in it, again that is one opinion, just like you have one opinion, as do I. I have the car and am very happy with it, that is all that matters to me!!! You and others are always trying to read some thing into every positive post, get over it!!! some of us really like the car. I don't think the car was over sold!!!! If you do? don't buy it, if you have it and are not happy with it! Sell it. JD
12-18-2014, 03:17 PM
#145
Safety Car
You see, sometimes complaints about a car get fixed by the OEM. Maybe these tuning complaints will get fixed by GM, who knows?
12-18-2014, 03:24 PM
#146
Scraping the splitter.
Maybe you should re-read that original post you linked again. I stated it pretty clearly in that thread that something was wrong with the car. It felt like it was in reduced power mode, after doing a burnout. In fact, when I spoke with the SRT engineers, they said it might have been triggered by holding the brake and the throttle at the same time. There has also been at least 3 ECM revisions for Vipers, since then. I'm not sure if that has been fixed, but it seems that the cars can be dynoed now - without limp mode affecting them.
You see, sometimes complaints about a car get fixed by the OEM. Maybe these tuning complaints will get fixed by GM, who knows?
You see, sometimes complaints about a car get fixed by the OEM. Maybe these tuning complaints will get fixed by GM, who knows?
Are the current, or more recently produced Gen V cars pulling timing aggressively starting in the 86* IAT range? Also, have they resolved the clutch issues the earlier cars were having?
S.
12-18-2014, 03:24 PM
#147
Melting Slicks
Make the arrangements, Show up or shut up.
Now for NineBall...... If ED does make this arrangement with JD and he loses....... Are you going to be willing to stipulate that ALL Vipers are slower than ALL C7Z06's? Currently you seem to be claiming that they are all slower because you saw one get beat (in a game of chicken,, not actually a race).
12-18-2014, 03:24 PM
#148
Safety Car
I agree. The blind ignorant brand loyalty is a real downside to corvette owners and this forum. I'm a car enthusiast that happens to own a corvette, not a corvette enthusiast. I fully recognize the flaws (and there are many) in the vette, and GMs issues. More people need to live in the real world, and not happy corvette land where everything else is junk.
12-18-2014, 03:26 PM
#149
Team Owner
12-18-2014, 03:29 PM
#150
Race Director
In terms of getting honest feedbacks from current owners...well, good luck with that. Think about it, many of these cats just dropped between $85K and $105K on a car...do you really think many of them will shime in and said: Crap man, I just dropped a boat load of money and I hate myself for it because of this or that? No, not likely. 
12-18-2014, 03:29 PM
#151
jb,
I'm over 2 hours from sebring and I'm not interested in racing around a track.
I'm interested in proving that Tony's races were legitimate/not ringers/are representative of the two cars. JD's accusation was that the "ONE" race was biased and illegitimate and I'm prepared to prove him wrong. He isn't prepared for that reality.
Great try, though.
I'm over 2 hours from sebring and I'm not interested in racing around a track.
I'm interested in proving that Tony's races were legitimate/not ringers/are representative of the two cars. JD's accusation was that the "ONE" race was biased and illegitimate and I'm prepared to prove him wrong. He isn't prepared for that reality.
Great try, though.
12-18-2014, 03:31 PM
#153
Team Owner
No, as I drive a C6 Z06 with a dumb ECU. I actually have to reach over to the console and place the rocker switch in either
"highway" or "race track" position as the ECU won't do it for me. LOL.
"highway" or "race track" position as the ECU won't do it for me. LOL.
Last edited by JoesC5; 12-18-2014 at 03:38 PM.
12-18-2014, 03:34 PM
#154
Safety Car
I'm going to make a prediction... which means absolutely _nothing_ right now, I realize.
After 25+ passes (maybe less), Snorman at sea level will run a 10.9-11.0 at a minimum in his A8 Z06.
Tony, if you ever get one of these cars, after 25+ passes at Royal Purple (I'm so old, I thought it was still called HRP) in an M7 at sea-level DA, you will run at least equivalent, if not faster than the GM-claimed times (11.2 @ 127).
robe38 is a solid driver. Probably a lot like me, but not someone who eats, sleeps, lives at the track. Can drive a stick well, but he has made _3_ passes, lifting on upshifts (except for 3-4 shift) and had TC nannies kicking in. I guess I would be ashamed to have vid posted of me in my first 3 passes in my brand new car b/c I'd be happy to replicate what he did, if I'm being honest.
No-lift shift that car with the nannies completely off, and nailing each shift at the correct shift-rpm, and I have little doubt it would run 11.2-11.3 @ 127+ at sea-level DA.
What it does after 140-150... we have one video to watch, and the Z06 got pulled. Period.
After 25+ passes (maybe less), Snorman at sea level will run a 10.9-11.0 at a minimum in his A8 Z06.
Tony, if you ever get one of these cars, after 25+ passes at Royal Purple (I'm so old, I thought it was still called HRP) in an M7 at sea-level DA, you will run at least equivalent, if not faster than the GM-claimed times (11.2 @ 127).
robe38 is a solid driver. Probably a lot like me, but not someone who eats, sleeps, lives at the track. Can drive a stick well, but he has made _3_ passes, lifting on upshifts (except for 3-4 shift) and had TC nannies kicking in. I guess I would be ashamed to have vid posted of me in my first 3 passes in my brand new car b/c I'd be happy to replicate what he did, if I'm being honest.
No-lift shift that car with the nannies completely off, and nailing each shift at the correct shift-rpm, and I have little doubt it would run 11.2-11.3 @ 127+ at sea-level DA.
What it does after 140-150... we have one video to watch, and the Z06 got pulled. Period.
12-18-2014, 03:35 PM
#155
Team Owner
12-18-2014, 03:39 PM
#156
Le Mans Master
This EXACT scenario played out on the viper forum. The Gen V owners (Nine Ball included) were so sick of the "bashers" they were banned. Sunsalem was one of those "bashers".
Haters gonna hate. This thread might as well be titled C7Z06 Haters United.
If you truly believe GM is lying about the Z06 capabilities. That GM is mistreating customers. That GM overpromised and underdelivered. That the old Z06 was better. That the paint quality sucks so much. That the ZR1 is still the fastest Corvette evAr!!11!1!1 Then why are you here? What is your purpose for continuing to participate in a forum dedicated to a vehicle you have decided is not worthy of your purchase. There are plenty of other cars to purchase. What makes you so hell bent on spending your entire days arguing about a car that you have no intention of buying. Whatever happened to putting your money where your mouth is.. and not buying it. Or even better.. buying what you like.. and joining a forum dedicated to it.
Those who have received their C7Z06's seem VERY satisfied with the car they purchased and the price they paid for it. The biggest C7Z06 naysayers, are the individuals who have yet to even drive one. Please excuse me.. while I go signup for Porscheforums.com and complain all day about how the low HP output on base model cars.. and outrageous pricing of high-end models.. has soured my interested in buying a Porsche. I want to see what it feels like to complain about something I am not buying.
If you truly believe GM is lying about the Z06 capabilities. That GM is mistreating customers. That GM overpromised and underdelivered. That the old Z06 was better. That the paint quality sucks so much. That the ZR1 is still the fastest Corvette evAr!!11!1!1 Then why are you here? What is your purpose for continuing to participate in a forum dedicated to a vehicle you have decided is not worthy of your purchase. There are plenty of other cars to purchase. What makes you so hell bent on spending your entire days arguing about a car that you have no intention of buying. Whatever happened to putting your money where your mouth is.. and not buying it. Or even better.. buying what you like.. and joining a forum dedicated to it.
Those who have received their C7Z06's seem VERY satisfied with the car they purchased and the price they paid for it. The biggest C7Z06 naysayers, are the individuals who have yet to even drive one. Please excuse me.. while I go signup for Porscheforums.com and complain all day about how the low HP output on base model cars.. and outrageous pricing of high-end models.. has soured my interested in buying a Porsche. I want to see what it feels like to complain about something I am not buying.
12-18-2014, 03:39 PM
#157
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Snorman
Are the current, or more recently produced Gen V cars pulling timing aggressively starting in the 86* IAT range? Also, have they resolved the clutch issues the earlier cars were having?
The clutches haven't changed. Very good for road racing, but POS's for drag racing. Those drag radials had more traction than the factory clutch does. I never went back to the drag strip after I installed the Bad Boyz Clutch, it was hot outside by then. I don't see a Viper going better than 10.8s, personally.
Now for NineBall...... If ED does make this arrangement with JD and he loses....... Are you going to be willing to stipulate that ALL Vipers are slower than ALL C7Z06's? Currently you seem to be claiming that they are all slower because you saw one get beat
Looking forward to more videos of actual races.
12-18-2014, 03:44 PM
#158
Race Director
Man I tell ya this forum never changes 
All we really need to do is wait a few more months when more of them have been raced on the track (and perhaps on the street) in STOCK form and I think it will become more clear if there are indeed real concerns or problem with the car. Right now there is limited information /real world experience to look at and limited data.
Of course those who just dropped the big coin for this car are going to defend it
or say its awesome..and that's great
I would agree it's a fine line to be skeptical and critical vs just being a troll/hater and stirring the pot like so many love to do here.
I love all Corvettes so I hope there are no heatsoak or timing issues with the car.
All we really need to do is wait a few more months when more of them have been raced on the track (and perhaps on the street) in STOCK form and I think it will become more clear if there are indeed real concerns or problem with the car. Right now there is limited information /real world experience to look at and limited data.Of course those who just dropped the big coin for this car are going to defend it
or say its awesome..and that's great I would agree it's a fine line to be skeptical and critical vs just being a troll/hater and stirring the pot like so many love to do here.
I love all Corvettes so I hope there are no heatsoak or timing issues with the car.
Last edited by FrankTank; 12-18-2014 at 03:47 PM.
12-18-2014, 03:45 PM
#159
Scraping the splitter.
Some people, in this very thread, laughed when last summer I claimed the C7's would go mid-11's. Now what do they have to say?
Nothing but excuses about it being an automatic. IMO the A8 cars will end up going at least 10.6 in the 130 range in good air. It's ~125# heavier than a Z51, with ~160-170 more rwhp and slightly quicker A8.
The M7's will likely be somewhat hobbled by TM. I dealt with that in my '13 GT500 (but still ran 11.3 at 127 mph bone stock on stock tires in Orlando, of all places) and it sucks because you can't truly defeat it. If people can get around that, they should run well too. But I don't think we'll see extremely impressive times for them.
S.
12-18-2014, 03:45 PM
#160
Safety Car
^^^I said... "at a minimum" and I also said sea level. Sure, ~1000' that you have at a NE track... I have already posted that I believe the cars will run 10.7 or less at 130... right in line with the ZR1s at the same tracks.
Look forward to seeing you post some results in early spring.
Look forward to seeing you post some results in early spring.