z06vettewannabe

Great post. I think you hit the nail on the head. As I've been reading posts I see a lot of comments about "trolls" so it's important to differentiate between those folks and the ones who are simply trying to get more information. Perception is everything and very simply the "way" somebody writes a post will drive the reaction to it. Having tact and respect goes a long way towards getting the answer you want. My impression is that the Corvette forum is 99% populated by reasonable enthusiasts who are willing to discuss any issues so long as posters don't write in absolutes, just as you said. The 1% are the ones that simply need to be ignored. I want a Z06. I have some "concerns" about the ECU tuning, but it's not an outright show stopper for me, I just want to find out if it's something that GM will "change" (note I didn't say FIX because that implies it was a mistake) or as we learn more and more about it is it truly a non issue?

NineBall

You are well aware at how the Viper pulls timing (and power) at higher IAT temps. +650 ft DA is a good 30 degrees ambient (hotter) than negative DA. That car with no changes picked up quite a bit of mph, just from the outside temperature. The C7Z ran in negative DA, about the same time of year that I ran my 10 second pass. You think the C7Z will run consistent with the 124.x silver car, once it hits +650 DA outside? With all the heat-soak complaints?

Here is how my car ran in early December 2013, at the exact same track, with similar weather as that silver C7Z.



So, if you wish to compare +650 DA times vs -DA times, that would just be silly. Both cars will run slower when it is hot outside.

0Myhardtop

Wow, good catch/find...Ouch!

Oh boy, here comes the forum drama

Nevetheless, it takes time to get acclimated to a new car...that is totally 100% understandable.

As far as the new Z, TIME WILL TELL!!!

Calling out people for a race may not really prove a thing IF the driving skills of a particular driver is crappy.

In terms of getting honest feedbacks from current owners...well, good luck with that. Think about it, many of these cats just dropped between $85K and $105K on a car...do you really think many of them will shime in and said: Crap man, I just dropped a boat load of money and I hate myself for it because of this or that? No, not likely.

However, many of them will tell you that they made the right choice regardless of what has been said, tested or proven. If anyone tells these guys anything different from what's in their minds even if proof smacks them dead in the eye, they will label you a hater. The same thing happens in other forums/brands

Thanks,
Carlos

ChucksZ06

Right. The op and bimmer boy stig whine about lack of objectivity and then the viper lovers, p car guys, etc. chime in with the stories about how their cars are better than crappy vettes...over and over again it is the same scenario. You are hilarious in your transparency guys. Go post on your other forums. Skullbusa is amazed that someone can actually not hate the new z06...is it 'cause the guy is happy? Is that why you are pissed?

DebRedZR1

With all these "reported" problems who at GM has a clue to FIX things? I WON'T be ordering the C7 in any variation UNTIL GM gets some COMPETENT customer service going. Last call to them they didn't even know what a ZR1 was

As for the performance of the CZ7 I will rely on on people I know who own and actually run them for performance feedback. I have some insider info so not surprising what is occurring.


Wake UP GM and get the clueless interns OFF the phones and forums.

Skullbussa

1) Why does it bother you that I am here? Does it diminish your enjoyment of your car?

2) Do you have nothing to gain by knowing about problems that are affecting other C7Z owners?

3) Do I not have a right as a potential buyer to openly discuss issues on this forum?

4)Isn't it perhaps a good idea to expose problems here, raising its visibility to GM corporate?

NineBall

Not really a "find", since I always well-document my cars online. The main difference (other than weather) between that first visit, and the 10-second visit, was that I never did burnouts again. Apparently, Vipers like to put you into reduced power mode when you do burnouts or dyno the cars. Likely something to do with the ABS or traction control systems freaking out. I simply do not do burnouts now. The car ran like crap after that first burnout, hence the crappy mph that night.

Who knows, maybe the C7Z does the same thing? Maybe that is why it only went 124 mph in negative DA? These are the things to discuss.

TARANTULA

Go do it. And you will see that discussions are a lot more civilized.

Skullbussa

The only thing that pisses me off is when people suppress other's opinions.

If someone is happy with their car, that is all that matters. People who are happy with their car are not "apologists" or "loyalists" and not to whom I am directing my message.

We can all agree there are reasonable people on both sides of the fence and there are trolls on both sides. Your insinuation that I am here to devalue the C7Z and have no other objective is insulting.

WA 2 FST

[QUOTE=Skullbussa;1588512841]
There is an unhealthy amount of brand loyalism on this forum.

[/QUOTE

And there is just as much, if not more, trolling by people who jump to conclusions based on tiny sample sizes. As the internet has made the world exponentially smaller, and continues to do so, everyone is an "expert in their own mind, and free to share that with the world."

While, indeed, this is the reality of an open forum like this... the piling on when things aren't perfect is just foolhardy, and chest-thumping (especially given the tiny sample size). That's the kind of junk I'm tired of reading. Perfect example is the thread of the video of the 1/4 mile time... that was a missed-shift pass, but so few even bothered to read the entire thread, EVEN AFTER THE OWNER/DRIVER showed up and posted his 3 timeslips. He even goes on to say TC was kicking in on his full passes, so that certainly kills trap speed, ET, everything. But we have people saying the car is junk. Please.

The trolls and wannabes are in overreaction mode.

I'm not brand-loyal in the least (owned more F*rds than anything), but at least I'm objective. That comes with age/experience, most likely. 20 years ago, if these forums had been around, I might have overreacted, too.

Like you, I'm interested in quantifiable, objective data. Lots of the subjective stuff... well, I have to find people here who share the same priorities in a car that I do, and often have the same type of driving habits. That takes time, but I'm willing to sift through that to find good "subjective info" that I can use as an evaluation tool. But back to objective data... a couple of videos and a few passes at the strip don't turn out exactly like people thought/wanted...and let's just throw it all out. C'mon.

I am a '16 model year buyer b/c I want to see how the A8 does in the hands of experienced drivers/owners. If that doesn't turn out well, I'll buy an M7, get a tune, and a few other minor mods and have a 650+rwhp car that will rip. I'm definitely not letting a few CEL's and some orange-peel bother me.

red2012

Man talk about a whiner. What are you going to say when Nineball spanks the next Z06, it was just two races?

red2012

Good luck.

EdwardETraylorIII

red2012,

See first post of second page...

OJCrush08

Bingo! You drop a ton of cash on something, you are gonna be damn defensive about it. Just like I was this morning when the plumber needed to replace broken garbage disposal in my $600k 2 year old house (where I live, this is considered an expensive house). Think I was happy that the builder (highly regarded in this area) chose to put a $90 cheap POS disposal in my house? Found myself first being defensive, then pissed. But that is just normal human behavior to first be defensive about your choices.

So we get crap sayings here like "Haters gonna hate." Really? What's next - "Hands up, don't shoot?"

Brilliant....

Snorman

I see. So the excuses that the Viper "pulls timing (and power)" are completely acceptable, but no such quarter is given to the C7 Z06 (when nobody really yet knows how much "timing (and power)" they will pull). Funny how that works. I'm surprised you didn't blame the Viper's clutch.
FYI...the DA at Royal Purple when he ran was right around sea level, as you very likely know. Do you realize how little benefit there is to going to sea level from ~650' DA? Your 11.43 at 124.34 would correct to an 11.37 at 124.9 at sea level. Bear in mind, I have no idea how accurate DragTime weather data is, nor do I know if you used an actual trackside weather station for your claim of 650' DA.
In any case, here's the DA around midnight on his 11.5 @ 125 pass:

BTW...it wasn't a 30 degrees warmer when you ran 11.4 at 124 mph. It was in the 60's in the evening of October 25, 2013.
Here's the DA at around 10 pm on that night (I'm not sure when you made the 11.4 pass or when the DA was "+650'"):

If my dates and/or times are wrong, feel free to correct me. At ~8 pm, the DA was ~366'.
Is this the day you made 27 passes on drag radials? From what I recall, the temps were in the 50's. And you were...well...on drag radials.

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...per-in-the-10s!

And you were running in this air:

That's a ~-1517' DA at around 10 am, ~-1000' around noon and ~-800' around 5 pm. If you ran those times into the night, the DA dropped from there. So the weather he ran in was nowhere near as good as the weather in which you ran a 10.97 on DR's. And we won't even get into the advantages of running during the day with the sun heating the track. And again, here we go comparing a single track outing to the best another car could muster in better air (and on DR's).

That's Atco/Cecil air right there.

See above.

The results of this "infamous" roll racing video? Who cares? To me, I look at data. Quarter mile times, 60-130 times, vBox data, etc.. That's indisputable, where driving skill, who got the jump, who was in the right gear, etc. are not.
So far, I've seen nothing to convince me that the Z06 will not be a very strong performer.
S.

EdwardETraylorIII

Snorman,

You can honestly sit here and type to me that the victories weren't decisive in that video?

Seriously? Really??

I'm waiting for JD's response so we can reproduce the results on a different track with different drivers - hopefully tonight....

NineBall

LOL @ Snorman trying to play Density Altitude Sleuth. I'm honored that you wasted your time trying to find a spec of comparison, that was a lot of typing. I posted my measured DA when I ran the passes. There was nothing to hide there. I also listed a bullet point list of complaints about the Viper in that thread you linked, so I'm not some blind-loyalist that thinks my cars are perfect.

The FACT remains, that my Viper walked away from the C7Z06 each time we raced. Maybe the right lane was faster than the left? Come on.

Tony

Snorman

I'll have my Z06 sometime in February.
I'll be happy to bring it to PBIR or you can come to OSW with your stock Gen V Viper and we'll see how "decisive" your victory will be.
No roll racing, no bullsh*t.

EdwardETraylorIII

Snorman, thanks for the offer... But my offer is right now. Still waiting on JD to get back to me so we can set this up and end this non-sense.

In February this car will be far from stock.. Won't be a fair race then.

0Myhardtop

True that homie, but remember, just because the DA was the same for that silver Z as it was for you in 2013 is not really a good true barometer as to what the car should do. Driving is everything!!!

My father, who back in the day drag raced for many years in the NMCA arena will tell you that just because DA/conditions were a certain way during X year and the car ran in a certain manner, it does not mean it will run the same way a year later given the same conditions. There are way too many variables to take into account; ESPECIALLY in this case since we are talking about two different vehicles and drivers.

My point is: you ran an avg of 11.10's at 127 or so...at this or that DA in 2013. The Z ran 11.5's at 124 given roughly the same DA in 2014. Not entirely a good performance barometer/gauge to slap on the Z TIME WILL TELL

I mean, God knows how many new Vipers (stock and modded) we have waxed the road with with C6Z's (stock and modded)...the biggest difference...DRIVING SKILLS!!! The new Viper advertised HP/TQ simply kills the C6Z and the Viper is for real. However, does it mean that Dodge or Dodge fanboys should run and hide or claim that something is wrong with the stock new Viper because some stock C6Z guys spanked it? No!

Thanks,
Carlos