MavsAK

Yeah I'm not exactly surprised. Seemed a little too heroic for a car company who's been struggling on the track for as long as Porsche has been to unload this car and be the king again so quickly.

dar02081961

That’s my point. With world beating performance in a $90K car why is an excuse needed? Especially in light of what the thread is actually about, which is other manufactures weight claims for their hyper cars being suspect.

Callsign_Vega

No matter what weights are publicized, a Z06 isn't going to come anywhere near a LaFerrari on a track. Time to come down to planet Earth from speculation lala-land. I'd honestly be surprised if the Z06 beat the old GENIV Viper ACR time of 7:12.

MavsAK

You mean the same manufacturer who won't volunteer cars for track day shootouts to the media, the same manufacturer that won't ever fess up to the weight of the car in reality, the same manufacturer that can't even make a 720 horsepower car, beat a 460 horsepower car by more than .14 seconds around laguna?

That Ferrari?
The same one who's Enzo got smashed by the C6 ZO6... who's successor the 458 still got smashed by the C6 ZO6... that Ferrari? The same Ferrari who hasn't been a force in F1 for so long that new fans don't understand the big deal behind the nameplate in F1..that Ferrari? The same one that can't buy a win in ALMS? That Ferrari?

It might not beat the LaFerrari but it'll get a hell of alot closer than it should.

Robert R1

The fact that we can't have an honest test between the 3 supercars is a damn shame.

LS1LT1

I agree that it likely will not beat it.
But go so far out on a limb as to say that it won't even come "anywhere near it" is something I would NEVER do.
I've tasted 'crow' before and it sucks LOL.

dio55

I have made no predictions and it seems you are in as much "La La land" because you are a very low information on what's newly coming to light ...but drinking the kool-aid by the gallons
When OWNERS start complaining about how much of a tail happy DOG on a track this car is with extrawide rear tires that can't seem to stop following canvas and THIS where the folks at "Car magazine" report that they were SHOCKED at how poorly LaF performed on a mountain road compared P1 saying it was barely faster on the twisty stuff than a speciale ,which means LaF may struggle with 7:12 at the Ring

And btw I have owned two Ferraris (430 and 430 scud) in my time so I know first hand Ferrari's ins and outs ...You?
You also need to read up on Enzo price collapse when it was finally revealed that it was slower than the then decade old F1
And finally this peach by another Ferrari OWNER you might recognize

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

Brockman66

A lot of truth in this post...

Shaka

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...errari-fiorano

Callsign_Vega

I never said the LaFerrari would be faster than a P1. Until a Z06 beats the time of a LaFerrari around a track with a proper driver, I'll stick to my guns. By the way, just because you have owned an older Ferrari doesn't make you an expert on all things Ferrari including modern and future Ferrari's...

And what's the point of posting a LaFerrari that did a spin out? Any high performance car taken to the edge by a pro risks a spin or worse. Since a great GM driver at the ring smashed up a Z06 and they went packing (never posted a time), does that mean the Z06 is a spin happy pig?

jcosta79

Ferrari lies? No, say it ain't so!

Next thing you're going to tell me is that they made more than 399 Enzos...




(There's close to 500 confirmed Enzos at last count...)

SBC_and_a_stick

It's way worse when they can't spin. Look at the new Hurracan. It's designed for grandmas.

Phil~

Not to be a downer, but just becuase these HyperCars are heavy does not make them slow.

I love Z06's but lets get real here. Its 200 pounds heavier than a ZR1.. That's not going to chop 20 seconds t off a time.

Shaka

I like it.

918


P1


La Ferrari






C7 Z06










La Ferrari has a massive rear weight bias and also, all that power goes to two wheels. It has the highest CG of all these cars and therefore the highest instant or kinematic roll center. The front rear roll couple must be awful and will require a ver skilled driver. Not good for the Ring. Not one of Rory Byrne's best designs but Ferrari will laugh all the way to the bank.
The Vettes engine even with the blower is lower than La Ferrari's cylinder heads. What do the cylinder heads weigh? La Ferrari is too dependent on the rear tires. The friction circle on each tire on the Vette is optimized on a road course like the Ring because of its front to rear balance. Physics will keep the Ferrari behind the Porsche and the McLaren at the Ring and hopefully the Vette..

dwward

I'm a little surprised at the loss of innocence here. It's been like this for years. The mags need the manufactures to stay in business so they sold out to them. Don't play ball, your mag doesn't get the new Ferrari, Porsche or vette. Read between the lines on many of the car feature articles and it's clear that numbers are being fed the 'journalist' by the manufacturer who does nothing to verify.

Honestly, this is one reason why I enjoy Top Gear so much. Their popularity allows them to push back and poke the manufacturers more than pretty much any other media, but even they aren't immune -- they need Ferraris after all.

We live in a cheating culture. Maybe it was always this way. But seriously, how many cheating scandals do you have to hear about before you get that it's pervasive? What big NCAA program doesn't cheat? The steroid scandals? Bill Parcells taping the Rams run through before the Superbowl? What corp doesn't cheat on tax reporting, environmental reporting, etc. It's endless and it's a part of very nightly news cast. This is the world we live in. It's a culture that places money above all else and when big $$$ is at stake everyone is cheating. In the world of cars, nothing is bigger than Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche. Competition to sell cars to the super rich for 4x their value is huge. 'Everyone is cheating' should be the assumption you start with. Don't believe anyone and personally verify any fact you care about.

Telepierre

AMEN! but here is were it gets interesting to me and begs the question: save the few.. (like dio55) are F and P owners (for example)intrinsically vested in the benefits from the cheating to the point where it really does not matter?

1985 Corvette

No one should be surprised about these findings. We are socially conditioned to believe Ferrari is the end all. Even people who know nothing about cars will say that's the best car in the world. Place a 360 Modena next to a new C7 Z and ask your average person which one will be the winner in a performance contest and he's probably going to say the Ferrari. That thinking only amplifies when you're in the auto community. It's easier to pump up the "mystique" when the majority (myself included) can only imagine what the experience is like.

Because we won't ever have one, it becomes, "You just don't understand." if we are skeptical. That's a tough counter to overcome but facts are stubborn things. I'm not saying Ferrari is bad, quite the opposite, but there's not really a single marque out there I consider invincible. There may be one on top for the time being thanks to a current offering (like the LaFerrari) but no one stays in the top spot, and that's a good thing....keeps things fresh and exciting.

dio55

Have you ever had to deal with Ferrari EVER!!! I'm not an expert in present or future Ferraris but I am an expert on Ferrari UNDERPERFORMANCE and DECEPTION.
Like I said before you are a low information commenter
1. the car weighs 770 goddam pounds more than claimed
2. LaF has the entire gearbox ,electric motor and active rear spoiler mechanism about 600lbs sitting a foot BEHIND the rear wheels ..ask the racing and engineering folk what they think about that (utter madness)
3. In order to harness the manic torque from the engine and motor they have fitted tires TWICE as wide as the P1 918 and Z07 ..you might want to ask the racers and engineers here to explain "following canvas" to you
4. the center of gravity of that MASSIVE engine is 6" higher than 918 about 8" higher than P1 and the Z07 ..again ask the racers and engineers what they think of that
5. That was a TOP F1 driver spinning out at what was far from racing speeds and it's EXACTLY what owners are complaining about on a track ..bringing the back around like a drift car may look good but it makes for WAY slower track times
The entire mechanical design of this car was amateur hour ...and when you hear it was designed by an architect and directed by the company president you realise why. Engineers ALWAYS build the fastest cars not architects when form takes precedent over function you end up with show not go, it's where they went wrong ....It's in the video below

mattkilla2015

I'm sure there's a lot behind the scenes of car mags or internet channels/blogs that have access to all these cars but I will say at least some do test with their own equipment and most others do a good job of telling me "this is what the specs are via the manufacturer" I agree we do live in that culture, ive read/known a little on how Ferrari handles test cars from Chris Harris (guy ranting on first page link) and others but I dont think we should be just pessimistic or jaded with journalists/reviews. As chris said in his rant, " most companies just hand the keys over with a polite 'don't crash it too hard' " he ended up getting big enough that Ferrari let him back on the list which speaks to your point about top gear. Maybe it's how I was brought up in expecting people bending the rules and most everyone does it, but then again maybe I'm still naive into the extent certain companies or fields do it.

mattkilla2015

Is there a link to that thread? Very interesting about top gear, along with everything else.