ZR1 on the way
04-18-2014, 01:06 PM
#61
It's funny you keep referencing this alleged Tadge comment. You know the Corvette team is pretty good at resolving engineering challenges. If the aftermarket can package a TT set-up into a C7, GM will be able to do it better.
I also find it funny people think the new Z06, which from a performance envelope standpoint, will be a MARGINAL improvement over the C6 ZR1 is where Team Vette is going to stop for the C7. That just doesn't even make sense. On the track, the C7 Z06 will be slightly faster than the C6 ZR1. Effectively, it's a lateral move on the performance front.
So, GM has the twin turbo V8 being developed (to go into at least 1 Cadillac model too) and they have the room to step it up on the performance front in the C7 line. There will be a ZR1 model in the C7 line-up and it will have a TT V8, maybe called L88. It will have some nice interior enhancements (Nappa leather, etc.), some exterior differentiators, different wheels/tires, and a few other things.
Guys, think about it. There are a lot of people (me included) that would pay an extra $20k+ over the C7 Z06 to get a factory twin turbo V8 with 750hp or so and some nice interior and exterior tweaks. It's a good business model for GM, especially if they'll already effectively have the engine for some other Cadillac models. Drop it in the C7, made a few other tweaks/changes, make a bulletproof cooling system for track work, and charge a lot of money for it. People will buy them just like 4,500+ people bought the C6 ZR1.
I also find it funny people think the new Z06, which from a performance envelope standpoint, will be a MARGINAL improvement over the C6 ZR1 is where Team Vette is going to stop for the C7. That just doesn't even make sense. On the track, the C7 Z06 will be slightly faster than the C6 ZR1. Effectively, it's a lateral move on the performance front.
So, GM has the twin turbo V8 being developed (to go into at least 1 Cadillac model too) and they have the room to step it up on the performance front in the C7 line. There will be a ZR1 model in the C7 line-up and it will have a TT V8, maybe called L88. It will have some nice interior enhancements (Nappa leather, etc.), some exterior differentiators, different wheels/tires, and a few other things.
Guys, think about it. There are a lot of people (me included) that would pay an extra $20k+ over the C7 Z06 to get a factory twin turbo V8 with 750hp or so and some nice interior and exterior tweaks. It's a good business model for GM, especially if they'll already effectively have the engine for some other Cadillac models. Drop it in the C7, made a few other tweaks/changes, make a bulletproof cooling system for track work, and charge a lot of money for it. People will buy them just like 4,500+ people bought the C6 ZR1.
Same here I would go with a C7 ZR1 in a heart beat especially if it's going to be in the 750 factory hp range.
04-18-2014, 06:12 PM
#63
Le Mans Master
Nice twin turbo setup ... Recent GM Patent Application ...
http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum...26RS%3DAN%2Fgm
http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum...26RS%3DAN%2Fgm
04-18-2014, 07:11 PM
#64
Nice twin turbo setup ... Recent GM Patent Application ...
http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum...26RS%3DAN%2Fgm
http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum...26RS%3DAN%2Fgm
04-19-2014, 08:59 AM
#65
Safety Car
It's funny you keep referencing this alleged Tadge comment. You know the Corvette team is pretty good at resolving engineering challenges. If the aftermarket can package a TT set-up into a C7, GM will be able to do it better.
I also find it funny people think the new Z06, which from a performance envelope standpoint, will be a MARGINAL improvement over the C6 ZR1 is where Team Vette is going to stop for the C7. That just doesn't even make sense. On the track, the C7 Z06 will be slightly faster than the C6 ZR1. Effectively, it's a lateral move on the performance front.
So, GM has the twin turbo V8 being developed (to go into at least 1 Cadillac model too) and they have the room to step it up on the performance front in the C7 line. There will be a ZR1 model in the C7 line-up and it will have a TT V8, maybe called L88. It will have some nice interior enhancements (Nappa leather, etc.), some exterior differentiators, different wheels/tires, and a few other things.
Guys, think about it. There are a lot of people (me included) that would pay an extra $20k+ over the C7 Z06 to get a factory twin turbo V8 with 750hp or so and some nice interior and exterior tweaks. It's a good business model for GM, especially if they'll already effectively have the engine for some other Cadillac models. Drop it in the C7, made a few other tweaks/changes, make a bulletproof cooling system for track work, and charge a lot of money for it. People will buy them just like 4,500+ people bought the C6 ZR1.
I also find it funny people think the new Z06, which from a performance envelope standpoint, will be a MARGINAL improvement over the C6 ZR1 is where Team Vette is going to stop for the C7. That just doesn't even make sense. On the track, the C7 Z06 will be slightly faster than the C6 ZR1. Effectively, it's a lateral move on the performance front.
So, GM has the twin turbo V8 being developed (to go into at least 1 Cadillac model too) and they have the room to step it up on the performance front in the C7 line. There will be a ZR1 model in the C7 line-up and it will have a TT V8, maybe called L88. It will have some nice interior enhancements (Nappa leather, etc.), some exterior differentiators, different wheels/tires, and a few other things.
Guys, think about it. There are a lot of people (me included) that would pay an extra $20k+ over the C7 Z06 to get a factory twin turbo V8 with 750hp or so and some nice interior and exterior tweaks. It's a good business model for GM, especially if they'll already effectively have the engine for some other Cadillac models. Drop it in the C7, made a few other tweaks/changes, make a bulletproof cooling system for track work, and charge a lot of money for it. People will buy them just like 4,500+ people bought the C6 ZR1.
Last edited by mirage2991; 04-19-2014 at 09:36 AM.
04-19-2014, 04:40 PM
#67
Le Mans Master
04-19-2014, 04:44 PM
#68
Racer
Huh! You noticed that too? I didn't say anything because I was afraid the wishful thinkers would have thought I was a fun sucker... i.e. Someone that always has to suck the fun right out of the air..... I'm guessing you counted the intake runners and gasket? Like I said, I didn't want to burst anyone's bubble for those wishing real hard for the ZR1 to reappear. Who knows.... Maybe someday it will if people are willing to wait long enough. Personally, I don't really care.
04-19-2014, 07:42 PM
#70
Drifting
Thread Starter
Huh! You noticed that too? I didn't say anything because I was afraid the wishful thinkers would have thought I was a fun sucker... i.e. Someone that always has to suck the fun right out of the air..... I'm guessing you counted the intake runners and gasket? Like I said, I didn't want to burst anyone's bubble for those wishing real hard for the ZR1 to reappear. Who knows.... Maybe someday it will if people are willing to wait long enough. Personally, I don't really care.
In the near past I had 3 Z06's and a ZR1, I don't see why I cant get both if a ZR1 does show up but I also have a 991 GT3 on order and that's a fine car so im confused I should either get the Z06 or the GT3
04-19-2014, 07:49 PM
#71
I have heard a special C7 version will be rolled out for '16 and that it will be a halo car "that will cap the horsepower wars domestically" and will NOT be called a ZR1. No green light from the top brass yet though but it is expected.
That's all he would tell me. I hope he's right.
That's all he would tell me. I hope he's right.
04-19-2014, 08:14 PM
#72
Safety Car
The only way a turbo sounds desirable to me is where the unit is compensated with an electric motor like in 2014 F1 cars. That way you don't pay the huge prices of transient response to make power. Everything else falls short. Why have lag when you can get over 600hp supercharged?
04-19-2014, 08:32 PM
#73
Racer
C7 Z06 is the new ZR1. It was just a rebadge. That's why they won't be coming out with a ZR1. What else is really left to differentiate it. Z06 already offers the supercharger, carbon ceramic brakes, aero package, etc..
With the C6 you had the option of base with the V8 N/A, or Z06 with a big *** V8 N/A, or ZR1 with the supercharger and carbon brakes. With the C7 - there's nothing left to really make a new model with. You can offer twin turbo if you really wanted to, but that doesn't really seem much different than a supercharger in the basic sense. They'd have to really come up with something unexpected to have enough to create an additional model that people would be willing to spend even more for. Once you get too high, then you end up with the Viper and it's sales numbers.. so I don't see much room for another model.
With the C6 you had the option of base with the V8 N/A, or Z06 with a big *** V8 N/A, or ZR1 with the supercharger and carbon brakes. With the C7 - there's nothing left to really make a new model with. You can offer twin turbo if you really wanted to, but that doesn't really seem much different than a supercharger in the basic sense. They'd have to really come up with something unexpected to have enough to create an additional model that people would be willing to spend even more for. Once you get too high, then you end up with the Viper and it's sales numbers.. so I don't see much room for another model.
04-19-2014, 08:55 PM
#74
Safety Car
Forged titanium rods, 8.0 compression, 13 psi would make a ZR1. GM will make it, I'm sure. If they sell 1,000 ZR1s per year at $120k that's 1000 cars that they will sell for $120k instead of $80k (Z06). Not counting people that will buy a Z06 and later discard it for a ZR1, that's 40 million dollars/year in profit for GM.
How many Cavaliers did GM have to sell to make 40 million in profit?
How many Cavaliers did GM have to sell to make 40 million in profit?
04-19-2014, 09:24 PM
#75
Le Mans Master
Agreed here on the ZR1 as well though part of me wishes it was a new age LT5 DOHC motor. But if they did a twin turbo V8 I bet that would look pretty nice. But knowing GM they will probably try to hide it all with plastic engine covers. One of the few areas about the Corvette that dumbfound me....plastic engine "dressing" pieces. Hate em'.
04-19-2014, 10:22 PM
#76
Drifting
Thread Starter
Forged titanium rods, 8.0 compression, 13 psi would make a ZR1. GM will make it, I'm sure. If they sell 1,000 ZR1s per year at $120k that's 1000 cars that they will sell for $120k instead of $80k (Z06). Not counting people that will buy a Z06 and later discard it for a ZR1, that's 40 million dollars/year in profit for GM.
How many Cavaliers did GM have to sell to make 40 million in profit?
How many Cavaliers did GM have to sell to make 40 million in profit?
For those saying you could have a supercharger and not pay the penalty of lag, ever wondered why all manufacturers switched to turbos? They are FORCED to, turbos are the most efficient form of forced induction. At the same boost levels run on the blower turbos could make significantly more power. It takes a decent amount of power to drive even the most efficient blowers today.
If you need 10psi to make 600bhp on a 6.2 liter engine with a blower, you can probably make MORE than 600bhp with a smaller engine and the same boost level, or higher compression ratio and less boost = more efficient motor.
Also when we say ZR1 we simply mean a higher performance version of the Corvette regardless what they call it. I don't see GM stopping here, do you?
04-19-2014, 10:24 PM
#77
Burning Brakes
Orange Peel, Orange Peel...
I stopped reading this thread after at page 3... More than half the post are on a TANGENT talking about ORANGE PEEL. OMG... How about you folks so concerned with ORANGE PEEL, make a separate post. I was interested in reading the comments on this mule. 
My hope... a totally different body and no ZR1 label. Something akin to the Ford GT in a Twin Turbo with all wheel drive. I'M DREAMING I KNOW. Maybe for the C8Z
My hope... a totally different body and no ZR1 label. Something akin to the Ford GT in a Twin Turbo with all wheel drive. I'M DREAMING I KNOW. Maybe for the C8Z
04-19-2014, 10:25 PM
#78
Drifting
Thread Starter
The only way a turbo sounds desirable to me is where the unit is compensated with an electric motor like in 2014 F1 cars. That way you don't pay the huge prices of transient response to make power. Everything else falls short. Why have lag when you can get over 600hp supercharged?
04-19-2014, 10:27 PM
#79
Drifting
Thread Starter
I stopped reading this thread after at page 3... More than half the post are on a TANGENT talking about ORANGE PEEL. OMG... How about you folks so concerned with ORANGE PEEL, make a separate post. I was interested in reading the comments on this mule.
My hope... a totally different body and no ZR1 label. Something akin to the Ford GT in a Twin Turbo with all wheel drive. I'M DREAMING I KNOW. Maybe for the C8Z
My hope... a totally different body and no ZR1 label. Something akin to the Ford GT in a Twin Turbo with all wheel drive. I'M DREAMING I KNOW. Maybe for the C8Z
I honestly think it will have electric motors supplementing the power making the car behave like an AWD off the line, and make the car more agile in the corners by applying some negative torque to the inner wheels during cornering etc...
04-19-2014, 11:23 PM
#80
Safety Car
I hope you're kidding when you say 8.0 CR, that's not gonna work for emissions and off boost drivability. With direct injection they could either run decent compression and boost or drop a little and run more boost.
For those saying you could have a supercharger and not pay the penalty of lag, ever wondered why all manufacturers switched to turbos? They are FORCED to, turbos are the most efficient form of forced induction. At the same boost levels run on the blower turbos could make significantly more power. It takes a decent amount of power to drive even the most efficient blowers today.
If you need 10psi to make 600bhp on a 6.2 liter engine with a blower, you can probably make MORE than 600bhp with a smaller engine and the same boost level, or higher compression ratio and less boost = more efficient motor.
Also when we say ZR1 we simply mean a higher performance version of the Corvette regardless what they call it. I don't see GM stopping here, do you?
For those saying you could have a supercharger and not pay the penalty of lag, ever wondered why all manufacturers switched to turbos? They are FORCED to, turbos are the most efficient form of forced induction. At the same boost levels run on the blower turbos could make significantly more power. It takes a decent amount of power to drive even the most efficient blowers today.
If you need 10psi to make 600bhp on a 6.2 liter engine with a blower, you can probably make MORE than 600bhp with a smaller engine and the same boost level, or higher compression ratio and less boost = more efficient motor.
Also when we say ZR1 we simply mean a higher performance version of the Corvette regardless what they call it. I don't see GM stopping here, do you?
Efficiency is good but please quantify. A turbo robs power to make power as well. What are we talking about, 20hp on top of 635hp? Is that worth all the lag that comes with it?
I've driven the new S55 AMG with the V8 turbo lately and that lag is horrendous. In fact the whole car was an utter bore. I'd go as far as saying it was the farthest from a real driver's car I've been in so far. I'm not counting U-hauls and things of that sort as cars.
I know that BMW has come closest to getting rid of turbo lag and have driven many 3 series cars. Not bad, but far from a sports engine with proper throttle response. Those don't have the turbine in the vee of course. I haven't driven the latest BMW V8 turbo. Any car it comes in weighs at least 4000lbs so I don't see myself testing one anytime soon. With only 4.4L to push I'm sure it will show some lag behavior.