I think Corvette needs a AWD Corvette
05-01-2014, 12:34 PM
#102
Safety Car
To have a Corvette with an AWD OR RWD drive option, the RWD option will suffer for it.
Because to anyone with a brain in their skull would know that the body would have to change it's proportions to fit AWD.
You are not going to fit AWD in the C7. It would also negatively affect things like weight distribution even if it could fit.
In other words that "all out performance" you AWD guys tout well, the vette won't have it anymore.
AWD costs weight, it costs packaging and weight distribution (which is why the only top 10 car at Laguna with AWD is a Lambo. Because the engine and everything else is in the Back of the car and why the GTR is #13) it costs fuel economy, it costs all out cornering performance, it adds expense to repair and sacrifices durability. AWD is a losing proposition.
the FF Ferrari should stomp a C7 period and forever since it has AWD right? Yet the F12 Berlinetta which is RWD doesn't even beat the C7 (and it's lighter than it's AWD counter part) by more than 1/4 of a second. You would end up with a Fatter F12 with the C7 if it had AWD. It'd be an FF.
Also bear in mind the Mighty Godzilla got beat by the C7 Stingray around Willowsprings. When things get twisty, AWD loses. Hell the GTR just got beat by a Camaro for crying out loud.
"But on the street!" you shouldn't be racing. If you are to the point in your life that you have one of these wonderful machines, what do you really have to prove other than your stupidity by racing on the street? Especially since anyone with a Sport Bike is going to dust your *** anyway? Take it to the track and learn to drive.
AWD isn't something you can just magically bolt into a car and expect everything to fit. There's no way GM could offer both a RWD Corvette and an AWD one. It's one or the other. It's nothing like an engine swap. Suspension geometry alone has to be radically different, to say nothing of substantial changes to the body work, where the transmission is located just to name a few.
It's cost prohibitive for zero performance gains anywhere that isn't a straight line (and then ONLY from a Dig). And that is what makes Godzilla the Hero car that is. It's fast despite the fact that it's saddled with AWD. (even if Godzilla some how magically becomes slower on every track on the planet that isn't Nurburgring, which it does. There's no way a 7:08 car wouldn't IMMEDIATELY be taken to Laguna Seca to shut the Mclaren, Vette and Viper guys up if it were really a street version of that car)
Because to anyone with a brain in their skull would know that the body would have to change it's proportions to fit AWD.
You are not going to fit AWD in the C7. It would also negatively affect things like weight distribution even if it could fit.
In other words that "all out performance" you AWD guys tout well, the vette won't have it anymore.
AWD costs weight, it costs packaging and weight distribution (which is why the only top 10 car at Laguna with AWD is a Lambo. Because the engine and everything else is in the Back of the car and why the GTR is #13) it costs fuel economy, it costs all out cornering performance, it adds expense to repair and sacrifices durability. AWD is a losing proposition.
the FF Ferrari should stomp a C7 period and forever since it has AWD right? Yet the F12 Berlinetta which is RWD doesn't even beat the C7 (and it's lighter than it's AWD counter part) by more than 1/4 of a second. You would end up with a Fatter F12 with the C7 if it had AWD. It'd be an FF.
Also bear in mind the Mighty Godzilla got beat by the C7 Stingray around Willowsprings. When things get twisty, AWD loses. Hell the GTR just got beat by a Camaro for crying out loud.
"But on the street!" you shouldn't be racing. If you are to the point in your life that you have one of these wonderful machines, what do you really have to prove other than your stupidity by racing on the street? Especially since anyone with a Sport Bike is going to dust your *** anyway? Take it to the track and learn to drive.
AWD isn't something you can just magically bolt into a car and expect everything to fit. There's no way GM could offer both a RWD Corvette and an AWD one. It's one or the other. It's nothing like an engine swap. Suspension geometry alone has to be radically different, to say nothing of substantial changes to the body work, where the transmission is located just to name a few.
It's cost prohibitive for zero performance gains anywhere that isn't a straight line (and then ONLY from a Dig). And that is what makes Godzilla the Hero car that is. It's fast despite the fact that it's saddled with AWD. (even if Godzilla some how magically becomes slower on every track on the planet that isn't Nurburgring, which it does. There's no way a 7:08 car wouldn't IMMEDIATELY be taken to Laguna Seca to shut the Mclaren, Vette and Viper guys up if it were really a street version of that car)
05-01-2014, 01:38 PM
#104
Safety Car
There is no such thing a perfect car. They all have faults.. even if that fault is price. So yes something like the McLaren P1 will outperform every other car in the world but if its costs $1.5 million do people like me really care.. No.
At the end of the day the number one most attractive feature about the Corvette.. is that the everyday regular guy like me can probably afford one. For $50k there is nothing on the market that comes close to the looks, performance, sound and overall experience of owning a Corvette. The higher that price creeps up, the more Corvette buyers will either lose interest or start looking at brands like Porsche a little closer. So While I agree that an AWD option would improve performance and be a popular item with some buyers.. the more you add to the cost of the Corvette.. you have to understand the more appealing its more expensive competition becomes.
As with any technology.. once it becomes cheap enough, lite enough & reliable enough to be produced in very large amounts then you can expect for GM offer it on the Vette. That goes for DCT, KERS-like systems, active aerodynamics and of course a mid-engine design.
At the end of the day the number one most attractive feature about the Corvette.. is that the everyday regular guy like me can probably afford one. For $50k there is nothing on the market that comes close to the looks, performance, sound and overall experience of owning a Corvette. The higher that price creeps up, the more Corvette buyers will either lose interest or start looking at brands like Porsche a little closer. So While I agree that an AWD option would improve performance and be a popular item with some buyers.. the more you add to the cost of the Corvette.. you have to understand the more appealing its more expensive competition becomes.
As with any technology.. once it becomes cheap enough, lite enough & reliable enough to be produced in very large amounts then you can expect for GM offer it on the Vette. That goes for DCT, KERS-like systems, active aerodynamics and of course a mid-engine design.
Last edited by Daekwan06; 05-01-2014 at 01:50 PM.
05-01-2014, 05:03 PM
#105
Melting Slicks
did not read all the posts.. GM sales would double if they built a Corvette AWD setup. Say what you want even the die hard RWD old School vette owners would buy it once they drove it. TRUST ME.
1 launch in a AWD z06 making 650hp would have them writing the check. They can deny it all they want. One drive and they would be like holy $hit!
Pulling 0-60 in 2.5 secs and Zero wheel spin vs spinning every time you come around a corner in my slow 455hp C7 pushing the gas pedal 1/3 of the way. So many benefits of AWD Including rain drivability.
1 launch in a AWD z06 making 650hp would have them writing the check. They can deny it all they want. One drive and they would be like holy $hit!
Pulling 0-60 in 2.5 secs and Zero wheel spin vs spinning every time you come around a corner in my slow 455hp C7 pushing the gas pedal 1/3 of the way. So many benefits of AWD Including rain drivability.
Off the corner. I really doubt anything AWD will make me ga ga in the dry. the C7 already beat the current GTR on willowsprings. What's the ZO6 going to do to it? I'm guessing there's laws against the sort of things the ZO6 C7 will do to a GTR around anything with corners.
An AWD C7 would also have to get better than 30 mpg highway and I don't see that happening either.
Last edited by MavsAK; 05-01-2014 at 05:07 PM.
05-01-2014, 06:07 PM
#106
Le Mans Master
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The addition of a lot of weight even unsprung weight would be of no concern to those that want AWD drive in a Corvette, it would not cause a problem to acceleration other than the weight which would help traction. I am not sure inertia, as the motor is stationary, not a big increase in rotational inertia, only the added weight. Again the AWD fanatics don't care about weight.
It would also improve fuel mileage!
I think it is a sub-optimal solution as compared to a rear mounted mid-engined chassis. Especially since it would require reengineering the chassis anyway.
AWD is for sedans and family cars for bad weather, and off-roading, not for high performance sports cars.
05-02-2014, 12:32 AM
#107
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I hope I never see an AWD vette, and don't believe I ever will; it's just sac religious
05-02-2014, 10:44 AM
#108
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '08
I am spinning my 455 C7 in 1st gear and second gear at will.. what do you think RF's on a Z06 with 635hp is going to do ? I am just saying the more power you add the more the VDC kicks in.
I raced a Zx14 last year with my GTR and it was a close race, i did win ;-)
05-02-2014, 12:17 PM
#109
Le Mans Master
I'd like to acknowledge despite the bickering, Most in this discussion show a willingness to entertain the idea rather shun it in a one word post. Not too long ago it seemed people were complaining about electric steering marking the end of performance corvettes. That was a dark period of resistance to change. I'm not against 4wd but would like the electric motor assist for the front wheels. Vettes are going to have a tough time getting quicker with just two wheels.
05-02-2014, 12:52 PM
#110
Melting Slicks
correct me if i am wrong but at what hp does the vette start to go slower on OEM tires?
I am spinning my 455 C7 in 1st gear and second gear at will.. what do you think RF's on a Z06 with 635hp is going to do ? I am just saying the more power you add the more the VDC kicks in.
I raced a Zx14 last year with my GTR and it was a close race, i did win ;-)
I am spinning my 455 C7 in 1st gear and second gear at will.. what do you think RF's on a Z06 with 635hp is going to do ? I am just saying the more power you add the more the VDC kicks in.
I raced a Zx14 last year with my GTR and it was a close race, i did win ;-)
In any case, good job. But you shelled out quite abit of money to do (and then had to mod it) what a sub 20k bike can do bone stock. Like I said, if I want to beat someone silly I don't even think about a car. I break out the bike for a straight line. It'd take quite abit of money to get a GTR into the 9.60s. Or any car for that matter, let alone down into the 8s. I'd put a modded ZX against a Veryon in a 1/4 anytime. It's not uncommon to see ZXs after turbos, running into the 7s. I really doubt there's going to be any GTRs down in that range, it's just too heavy.
So it comes down to, what are you really getting by getting AWD for a Vette? When for the price difference for an AWD Vette vs a RWD one you're quite likely able to buy a ZX 14 with mods, that will walk the dog on anything out there if the rider has enough *****. As an added side bonus, it puts TWO panty droppers in your stable instead of just one. (though in the side bonus's case the bike might not do the job. For some reason or another girls drool more over my C4 out of anything I drive, or have driven. Maybe it's cause it was the 'barbie vette'?)
I also take it you don't have the E Diff? Or Z51 in your C7? From what I've seen wheelspin doesn't look like much of a problem for them with those gumball tires.
There is a pretty cheap option for you straight line C7 guys that are having traction issues. Mickey Thompson makes an evil evil sticky street legal drag radial.
I just don't understand why you'd want AWD. Mid Rear Engine? Hell Yes I want that. AWD? Not so much
Last edited by MavsAK; 05-02-2014 at 10:59 PM.
05-02-2014, 01:39 PM
#111
I don't want an AWD Vette but I do think it would be great as an option for those who want it.
05-03-2014, 12:42 AM
#112
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My two cent....
38 year old
Brought my first vette when I was 30 C6..... Just purchased my c7 z51 last year. ..I have three friends that owns gtr....I also have owned rx7, supra, and Mercedes amg...
Pro for the gtr...
Awd
Fast launch. . Almost no wheel spin. .
Dct
Fast car period! !!!
Con's for the gtr...
Fat and ugly IMHO. ...
Loud with weird noises from the dct...
expensive to up keep....
understeer.....
Expensive to mod....
pro's for the vette...
Price for performance
Light weight
Mods for vette are cheaper then gtr and market for mods are 10x bigger and cheaper...
The sound of a V8.....
Con's. ...
wheel spin during launch. ..
transmission not as quick as dct ( not having the 15 z06 numbers yet)...
Before the c7. ... people's could say that the interior was cheap, the seat wasn't up to par, the car couldn't be control.... But I think GM took care of those issues.... traction control management, differential, redesigned interior ect.....
I asked myself the question why does corvette /porche owners don't buy gtr's. ...i think if the majority of vette/porche owners really wanted to buy a gtr they could.....
Sales for corvette 1.4 million
Sales for Gtr 7900
There no comparison in sales, even against 911 sales numbers. ...
I truly think if the gtr had a better exterior design more people's would buy it, I would.... It's a great car for the value. .. Every time I cruise with my friend, people's always take picture of my c7 and ask my friend what kind of car do they have....
All said the vette is iconic and been around for 50 years, so many vette owners are older, so what!!!! Gtr in 30 years will have a lot of older owners too, if they make it that long....supra, rx7 ect....
38 year old
Brought my first vette when I was 30 C6..... Just purchased my c7 z51 last year. ..I have three friends that owns gtr....I also have owned rx7, supra, and Mercedes amg...
Pro for the gtr...
Awd
Fast launch. . Almost no wheel spin. .
Dct
Fast car period! !!!
Con's for the gtr...
Fat and ugly IMHO. ...
Loud with weird noises from the dct...
expensive to up keep....
understeer.....
Expensive to mod....
pro's for the vette...
Price for performance
Light weight
Mods for vette are cheaper then gtr and market for mods are 10x bigger and cheaper...
The sound of a V8.....
Con's. ...
wheel spin during launch. ..
transmission not as quick as dct ( not having the 15 z06 numbers yet)...
Before the c7. ... people's could say that the interior was cheap, the seat wasn't up to par, the car couldn't be control.... But I think GM took care of those issues.... traction control management, differential, redesigned interior ect.....
I asked myself the question why does corvette /porche owners don't buy gtr's. ...i think if the majority of vette/porche owners really wanted to buy a gtr they could.....
Sales for corvette 1.4 million
Sales for Gtr 7900
There no comparison in sales, even against 911 sales numbers. ...
I truly think if the gtr had a better exterior design more people's would buy it, I would.... It's a great car for the value. .. Every time I cruise with my friend, people's always take picture of my c7 and ask my friend what kind of car do they have....
All said the vette is iconic and been around for 50 years, so many vette owners are older, so what!!!! Gtr in 30 years will have a lot of older owners too, if they make it that long....supra, rx7 ect....
Last edited by darkhorsevette; 05-03-2014 at 01:00 AM.
05-03-2014, 02:03 AM
#113
Le Mans Master
Looks like we have a few people here who want a heavy car with understeer.
Michael
Michael
05-03-2014, 06:05 AM
#114
correct me if i am wrong but at what hp does the vette start to go slower on OEM tires?
I am spinning my 455 C7 in 1st gear and second gear at will.. what do you think RF's on a Z06 with 635hp is going to do ? I am just saying the more power you add the more the VDC kicks in.
I raced a Zx14 last year with my GTR and it was a close race, i did win ;-)
I am spinning my 455 C7 in 1st gear and second gear at will.. what do you think RF's on a Z06 with 635hp is going to do ? I am just saying the more power you add the more the VDC kicks in.
I raced a Zx14 last year with my GTR and it was a close race, i did win ;-)
Oh and yes it does spin its tires too...
05-03-2014, 07:44 AM
#115
It'd have to be better than my 100 shot ZX14 to make me go "holy ****" in a straight line. Stock by the way the ZX14 runs deep into the 9s in the 1/4. Car has a LONG way to go to catch that. AWD or not. And that's without me squeezing the bottle.
Off the corner. I really doubt anything AWD will make me ga ga in the dry. the C7 already beat the current GTR on willowsprings. What's the ZO6 going to do to it? I'm guessing there's laws against the sort of things the ZO6 C7 will do to a GTR around anything with corners.
An AWD C7 would also have to get better than 30 mpg highway and I don't see that happening either.
Off the corner. I really doubt anything AWD will make me ga ga in the dry. the C7 already beat the current GTR on willowsprings. What's the ZO6 going to do to it? I'm guessing there's laws against the sort of things the ZO6 C7 will do to a GTR around anything with corners.
An AWD C7 would also have to get better than 30 mpg highway and I don't see that happening either.
05-03-2014, 07:46 AM
#116
That way those who like RWD won't have to pay dearly to buy their dream car. As for the AWD folks..have fun paying the R&D costs.
05-03-2014, 08:24 AM
#117
Race Director
If you want an all wheel rive sports car there are many to choose from...
The Audi tt
The Audi r8
The Porsche 911 4s
Porsche turbo
Nissan GTR
Lamborghini gallardo
Lamborghini aventador
Ferrari ff
I prefer rear wheel drive sports cars
Corvette
Z06
Gt3
Boxster
Cayman s
Ferrari 458
F12
McLaren
M3
M6
M5
Jaguar f type
The list goes on and on in both categories
No need for corvette to offer all wheel drive. JMO
The Audi tt
The Audi r8
The Porsche 911 4s
Porsche turbo
Nissan GTR
Lamborghini gallardo
Lamborghini aventador
Ferrari ff
I prefer rear wheel drive sports cars
Corvette
Z06
Gt3
Boxster
Cayman s
Ferrari 458
F12
McLaren
M3
M6
M5
Jaguar f type
The list goes on and on in both categories
No need for corvette to offer all wheel drive. JMO
05-03-2014, 08:58 AM
#119
Drifting
I am on my 2nd ZX14 since 2006...they are rockets with a ton of low end grunt. Not much out there that beats 'em.
