slushbox supercar?
01-13-2014, 07:52 PM
#101
Melting Slicks
This is 2014, and this is a NEW transmission. I have no doubt about generations old automatics, that is not what we are talking about here. I am CERTAIN GM has dealt with EVERY issue you think will plague this new box.
And here's the new transmission's predecessor, seems to do OK, wouldn't you say?
Cadillac CTS-V Nurburgring record run....556HP, over 4,000 pounds of car, and a 6 speed AUTOMATIC.
Jimmy
And here's the new transmission's predecessor, seems to do OK, wouldn't you say?
Cadillac CTS-V Nurburgring record run....556HP, over 4,000 pounds of car, and a 6 speed AUTOMATIC.
Jimmy
If you've worked for GM (as I have) you would understand that they don't necessarily get it right the first time out of the box, every time. Been there, done that, and have the t shirt.. And OBTW my racing co-driver works for Hydramatic and we both had high hopes for the six speed, but when it came out we were both disappointed.
Remember too that there are always a lot of folks who want the "bragging rights" to having a super car and don't want to drive a stick, for whatever reasons. GM makes a huge profit on the expensive versions of this car and if they can sell a few hundred more a year with because it has a shush box in it it they would do it in a heartbeat.
Most of those same posers wouldn't go near a track and if the did they most likely wouldn't drive it hard enough to get the car hot anyway, so it doesn't matter. If you bought a Z07 car in the 90's they flat told you it wasn't a nice car to drive and that this package was made for the "dedicated enthusiast" (there was a note on the order form that said this option was specifically designed for gymkhana competition and to make sure that is what the customer wanted). I can also imagine that this car could well be intended for the not so hard core buyer and if it's not, that's fine too. There are thousands of Z06's that will never see a track and all of them could have conventional automatics and no one would ever know the difference.
Some of you guys need to stop being such "fan boys" and get a dose of reality. I'm sure this is a great car but until I find out that the automatic version is really track capable (something none of us has any idea right now if it is or isn't) and that it actually works like it should on the track I'm going to wait and see how it's configured and see if it was designed for track work.
01-13-2014, 09:30 PM
#102
Race Director
One lap of the ring from a cool start means nothing. You likely couldn't cook the tranny on that track in one lap. Put it on a tighter track and try a 25 minute lapping session and find out what I'm talking about. Heat buildup and transmission damage takes time at temperature. Seven minutes won't likely do it, so what you are pointing to is meaningless.
If you've worked for GM (as I have) you would understand that they don't necessarily get it right the first time out of the box, every time. Been there, done that, and have the t shirt.. And OBTW my racing co-driver works for Hydramatic and we both had high hopes for the six speed, but when it came out we were both disappointed.
Remember too that there are always a lot of folks who want the "bragging rights" to having a super car and don't want to drive a stick, for whatever reasons. GM makes a huge profit on the expensive versions of this car and if they can sell a few hundred more a year with because it has a shush box in it it they would do it in a heartbeat.
Most of those same posers wouldn't go near a track and if the did they most likely wouldn't drive it hard enough to get the car hot anyway, so it doesn't matter. If you bought a Z07 car in the 90's they flat told you it wasn't a nice car to drive and that this package was made for the "dedicated enthusiast" (there was a note on the order form that said this option was specifically designed for gymkhana competition and to make sure that is what the customer wanted). I can also imagine that this car could well be intended for the not so hard core buyer and if it's not, that's fine too. There are thousands of Z06's that will never see a track and all of them could have conventional automatics and no one would ever know the difference.
Some of you guys need to stop being such "fan boys" and get a dose of reality. I'm sure this is a great car but until I find out that the automatic version is really track capable (something none of us has any idea right now if it is or isn't) and that it actually works like it should on the track I'm going to wait and see how it's configured and see if it was designed for track work.
If you've worked for GM (as I have) you would understand that they don't necessarily get it right the first time out of the box, every time. Been there, done that, and have the t shirt.. And OBTW my racing co-driver works for Hydramatic and we both had high hopes for the six speed, but when it came out we were both disappointed.
Remember too that there are always a lot of folks who want the "bragging rights" to having a super car and don't want to drive a stick, for whatever reasons. GM makes a huge profit on the expensive versions of this car and if they can sell a few hundred more a year with because it has a shush box in it it they would do it in a heartbeat.
Most of those same posers wouldn't go near a track and if the did they most likely wouldn't drive it hard enough to get the car hot anyway, so it doesn't matter. If you bought a Z07 car in the 90's they flat told you it wasn't a nice car to drive and that this package was made for the "dedicated enthusiast" (there was a note on the order form that said this option was specifically designed for gymkhana competition and to make sure that is what the customer wanted). I can also imagine that this car could well be intended for the not so hard core buyer and if it's not, that's fine too. There are thousands of Z06's that will never see a track and all of them could have conventional automatics and no one would ever know the difference.
Some of you guys need to stop being such "fan boys" and get a dose of reality. I'm sure this is a great car but until I find out that the automatic version is really track capable (something none of us has any idea right now if it is or isn't) and that it actually works like it should on the track I'm going to wait and see how it's configured and see if it was designed for track work.
I guess you've got a great understanding of the Nurburgring because you've driven it....how many times? There's a reason why SO many performance cars have much of their development done on this track. I'm pretty certain that a lap around the Green Hell is not the walk in the park on equipment that you seem to think it is. Would 3 laps around (24 minutes) suit you? Or do you think GM (and everyone else) goes there, does one lap, lets the car cool off, and then does another lap, etc. Give me a break.
So, let me see if I've got this right. YOU think that John Heinricy went out to attempt a record run in a CTS-V at the NURBURGRING on cold tires, cold engine, cold transmission, and you believe that, just to prove your point that an automatic can't take track duty. Since you're a "racer", you surely know better than to make such an inane statement.
And finally: "Been there, done that, and have the t-shirt"....I guess the use of that phrase is why you also brought up the 1990's....
I am no fanboy, nor am I a hater. Lecture someone else, you wasted your time with me.
Jimmy
Last edited by jimmyb; 01-13-2014 at 09:42 PM.
01-13-2014, 09:31 PM
#103
I guess I have a little bit of faith that GM wouldn't stuff an auto in the Z06 only to have it unable to make it through a hard summer HPDE session with an instructor-level driver behind the wheel.
01-13-2014, 09:40 PM
#104
Race Director
01-13-2014, 11:15 PM
#106
Melting Slicks
Sorry if I came across as condescending but you guys are raving that this car has a shush box in it and that since the car has a Z06 badge on it that it is "track ready". Frankly there is going to have to be a sea change in purely automatic transmission design to make it work as well as a DSC for track duty, that's all..
Actually that's exactly what they do. They don't hot lap, the run one lap, pull in, look at the data and let the car cool, and yea three laps is a huge difference, but they don't do that. If you'd ever been there you would understand that.
All the Corvettes that have been run at the "ring" from the C5Z on actually have a real hard time completing a typical 25 minute lapping session with stock brakes and stock brake cooling, yet they've done just fine at the "Ring", or at least they weren't running out of brakes after a 7 minute lap. Typically in a lapping session you don't start to lose the stock brakes (boil the fluid or overheat the pads) until you are 15 or so minutes into the session. Same thing with transmission overheating, no problems in a 7 minute session, but after 15 minutes or so you can have the transmission temperature warning pop up and have to slow down for the last few minutes of the session. The "Ring" is also a fast track. That is, the speed is pretty high all the time and that tends to ram a lot more air through the car and keep it cooler than on slower more typical road racing courses in this country. The "Ring" is a great performance benchmarking tool, but the way it is run and the high speed nature of the track mean that it isn't as tough on cooling requirements as a typical 25 minute lapping session at a typical track here in the US. The point being that your bringing up the fact that these cars have run the "ring" in xyz lap times means nothing.
No, the car isn't cold, it's warmed up, but it isn't hot like it just came off a hot lap. Remember these are street cars on street tires. They don't need hot tires and they don't have competition pads. The idea is to demonstrate what their car does in "as delivered" trim. That means no sticky tires and no racing pads, so there is no advantage in starting the lap on hot tires, in fact some street tires get greasy if they get too hot, so there is no reason to get them hot first. Total difference in going from warmed and ready to run compared to hot lapping for 25 minutes.
Sorry if I wasted my time, didn't mean to lecture you it's just that you guys came across raving about an automatic and I'm not convinced that yet.
I guess you've got a great understanding of the Nurburgring because you've driven it....how many times? There's a reason why SO many performance cars have much of their development done on this track. I'm pretty certain that a lap around the Green Hell is not the walk in the park on equipment that you seem to think it is. Would 3 laps around (24 minutes) suit you? Or do you think GM (and everyone else) goes there, does one lap, lets the car cool off, and then does another lap, etc. Give me a break.
All the Corvettes that have been run at the "ring" from the C5Z on actually have a real hard time completing a typical 25 minute lapping session with stock brakes and stock brake cooling, yet they've done just fine at the "Ring", or at least they weren't running out of brakes after a 7 minute lap. Typically in a lapping session you don't start to lose the stock brakes (boil the fluid or overheat the pads) until you are 15 or so minutes into the session. Same thing with transmission overheating, no problems in a 7 minute session, but after 15 minutes or so you can have the transmission temperature warning pop up and have to slow down for the last few minutes of the session. The "Ring" is also a fast track. That is, the speed is pretty high all the time and that tends to ram a lot more air through the car and keep it cooler than on slower more typical road racing courses in this country. The "Ring" is a great performance benchmarking tool, but the way it is run and the high speed nature of the track mean that it isn't as tough on cooling requirements as a typical 25 minute lapping session at a typical track here in the US. The point being that your bringing up the fact that these cars have run the "ring" in xyz lap times means nothing.
So, let me see if I've got this right. YOU think that John Heinricy went out to attempt a record run in a CTS-V at the NURBURGRING on cold tires, cold engine, cold transmission, and you believe that, just to prove your point that an automatic can't take track duty. Since you're a "racer", you surely know better than to make such an inane statement.
Sorry if I wasted my time, didn't mean to lecture you it's just that you guys came across raving about an automatic and I'm not convinced that yet.
01-13-2014, 11:17 PM
#107
Safety Car
There are more than a couple problems with an conventional automatic if used on a road course (where this car is supposed to shine) that really preclude any serious road racer from wanting it.
The first is heat generation. When even at high speed the torque converter generates huge amounts of heat. Put in 600+ hp and you have a huge heat generation machine. Ask anyone who has tried to set up an automatic for serious road course work and they will describe the litany of problems that result from trying to get sufficient heat dissipation capability. Huge coolers, pumps and fans are needed to get the heat out of a 400 hp automatic setup. I can only imagine how much it's going to take to get the heat out of a 600 hp system.
Secondly, if you've ever raced or autocrossed an automatic (and I have) you will find that the torque converter prevents the driver from being able to transfer weight to the front end by lifting the throttle. This is because the converter allows some slop between driving forward and transmitting power to the engine on overrun. Closer gear spacing and keeping the engine up higher in the rev range can help, but there is always going to be some driveline slop that won't go away unless the torque converter is locked up. If you have to drive around the issue it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of a lapping session.
DSC transmissions don't have the torque converter and don't have either of the aforementioned issues. They don't generate heat and don't have the driveline slop that a converter car has.
If you locked out the converter most of the time that would actually take care of both problems to a large extent. Unfortunately most lock up systems for automatics haven't been strong enough to take high torque. What happens is if you get up near the capability of the lock up clutch the ECU unlocks the clutch and it's like it isn't there. If you lock the converter out it wouldn't be bad, but that would take some serious engineering to make the clutch strong enough to take the full grunt of the engine.
If the clutch was beefed up a lot and could be locked most all the time then a modern automatic wouldn't be as bad as they are now, but if you're serious about taking the car for lapping days you really don't want a conventional automatic.
Drag racers and folks who drive on the street can love an automatic but I'd avoid it like the plague... Just speaking from experience...
The first is heat generation. When even at high speed the torque converter generates huge amounts of heat. Put in 600+ hp and you have a huge heat generation machine. Ask anyone who has tried to set up an automatic for serious road course work and they will describe the litany of problems that result from trying to get sufficient heat dissipation capability. Huge coolers, pumps and fans are needed to get the heat out of a 400 hp automatic setup. I can only imagine how much it's going to take to get the heat out of a 600 hp system.
Secondly, if you've ever raced or autocrossed an automatic (and I have) you will find that the torque converter prevents the driver from being able to transfer weight to the front end by lifting the throttle. This is because the converter allows some slop between driving forward and transmitting power to the engine on overrun. Closer gear spacing and keeping the engine up higher in the rev range can help, but there is always going to be some driveline slop that won't go away unless the torque converter is locked up. If you have to drive around the issue it takes a lot of the enjoyment out of a lapping session.
DSC transmissions don't have the torque converter and don't have either of the aforementioned issues. They don't generate heat and don't have the driveline slop that a converter car has.
If you locked out the converter most of the time that would actually take care of both problems to a large extent. Unfortunately most lock up systems for automatics haven't been strong enough to take high torque. What happens is if you get up near the capability of the lock up clutch the ECU unlocks the clutch and it's like it isn't there. If you lock the converter out it wouldn't be bad, but that would take some serious engineering to make the clutch strong enough to take the full grunt of the engine.
If the clutch was beefed up a lot and could be locked most all the time then a modern automatic wouldn't be as bad as they are now, but if you're serious about taking the car for lapping days you really don't want a conventional automatic.
Drag racers and folks who drive on the street can love an automatic but I'd avoid it like the plague... Just speaking from experience...
Thank you for taking the time to speak to us about your experience, with this car.
If you havent driven the new Z06 with the new 8spd. Then how in the hell do you possibly know how well it performs or not?
01-13-2014, 11:41 PM
#108
Race Director
Sorry if I came across as condescending but you guys are raving that this car has a shush box in it and that since the car has a Z06 badge on it that it is "track ready". Frankly there is going to have to be a sea change in purely automatic transmission design to make it work as well as a DSC for track duty, that's all..
Actually that's exactly what they do. They don't hot lap, the run one lap, pull in, look at the data and let the car cool, and yea three laps is a huge difference, but they don't do that. If you'd ever been there you would understand that.
All the Corvettes that have been run at the "ring" from the C5Z on actually have a real hard time completing a typical 25 minute lapping session with stock brakes and stock brake cooling, yet they've done just fine at the "Ring", or at least they weren't running out of brakes after a 7 minute lap. Typically in a lapping session you don't start to lose the stock brakes (boil the fluid or overheat the pads) until you are 15 or so minutes into the session. Same thing with transmission overheating, no problems in a 7 minute session, but after 15 minutes or so you can have the transmission temperature warning pop up and have to slow down for the last few minutes of the session. The "Ring" is also a fast track. That is, the speed is pretty high all the time and that tends to ram a lot more air through the car and keep it cooler than on slower more typical road racing courses in this country. The "Ring" is a great performance benchmarking tool, but the way it is run and the high speed nature of the track mean that it isn't as tough on cooling requirements as a typical 25 minute lapping session at a typical track here in the US. The point being that your bringing up the fact that these cars have run the "ring" in xyz lap times means nothing.
No, the car isn't cold, it's warmed up, but it isn't hot like it just came off a hot lap. Remember these are street cars on street tires. They don't need hot tires and they don't have competition pads. The idea is to demonstrate what their car does in "as delivered" trim. That means no sticky tires and no racing pads, so there is no advantage in starting the lap on hot tires, in fact some street tires get greasy if they get too hot, so there is no reason to get them hot first. Total difference in going from warmed and ready to run compared to hot lapping for 25 minutes.
Sorry if I wasted my time, didn't mean to lecture you it's just that you guys came across raving about an automatic and I'm not convinced that yet.
Actually that's exactly what they do. They don't hot lap, the run one lap, pull in, look at the data and let the car cool, and yea three laps is a huge difference, but they don't do that. If you'd ever been there you would understand that.
All the Corvettes that have been run at the "ring" from the C5Z on actually have a real hard time completing a typical 25 minute lapping session with stock brakes and stock brake cooling, yet they've done just fine at the "Ring", or at least they weren't running out of brakes after a 7 minute lap. Typically in a lapping session you don't start to lose the stock brakes (boil the fluid or overheat the pads) until you are 15 or so minutes into the session. Same thing with transmission overheating, no problems in a 7 minute session, but after 15 minutes or so you can have the transmission temperature warning pop up and have to slow down for the last few minutes of the session. The "Ring" is also a fast track. That is, the speed is pretty high all the time and that tends to ram a lot more air through the car and keep it cooler than on slower more typical road racing courses in this country. The "Ring" is a great performance benchmarking tool, but the way it is run and the high speed nature of the track mean that it isn't as tough on cooling requirements as a typical 25 minute lapping session at a typical track here in the US. The point being that your bringing up the fact that these cars have run the "ring" in xyz lap times means nothing.
No, the car isn't cold, it's warmed up, but it isn't hot like it just came off a hot lap. Remember these are street cars on street tires. They don't need hot tires and they don't have competition pads. The idea is to demonstrate what their car does in "as delivered" trim. That means no sticky tires and no racing pads, so there is no advantage in starting the lap on hot tires, in fact some street tires get greasy if they get too hot, so there is no reason to get them hot first. Total difference in going from warmed and ready to run compared to hot lapping for 25 minutes.
Sorry if I wasted my time, didn't mean to lecture you it's just that you guys came across raving about an automatic and I'm not convinced that yet.
Jimmy
01-13-2014, 11:44 PM
#109
So all modern road racers and F1 cars are "girl cars"? Automatics are the future. I love rowing gears but why stop the march of technology? GM should have just called the 8L90E a new "multi-clutch" transmission and most of you dopes would be on here raving about how it's better than silly DCTs with only "two clutches" 
01-14-2014, 02:01 AM
#110
In typical fashion GM goes halfway on something with the New Vette. There's very good reason no one else puts a torque converter in a , because they don't work. Site the 8 speed autos are plenty quick for the big Benzs but they aren't trying tocompete with the GTR, GT2, Aventador, TT etc.. You guys won't be singing its praises when the Porsche and GTR eat it alive.
01-14-2014, 03:12 AM
#111
In typical fashion GM goes halfway on something with the New Vette. There's very good reason no one else puts a torque converter in a , because they don't work. Site the 8 speed autos are plenty quick for the big Benzs but they aren't trying tocompete with the GTR, GT2, Aventador, TT etc.. You guys won't be singing its praises when the Porsche and GTR eat it alive.
Oh I see you have driven the C7Z with A8 already? Can you share more of your experience...?
01-14-2014, 03:34 AM
#112
Team Owner
01-14-2014, 05:33 AM
#113
01-14-2014, 05:44 AM
#114
Apology accepted, your ignorance is forgiven.
01-14-2014, 06:57 AM
#115
Drifting
Member Since: May 2007
Location: EV is like bad sex with no moaning
Posts: 1,549
Received 1,267 Likes
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578 Posts
All the arguing and bickering about manual vs auto for no reason. It is great to have the choice because now I will be purchasing this Z. And for a reason that no one ever seems to think of. At 6'6" 260 lbs. broad shoulders and big legs and feet I can finally drive a Z06. I fit comfortably in the c6 Z but did not have the foot room to shift proper with size 16 shoes. Now I do not have to worry about that. Thank you GM.
01-14-2014, 09:29 AM
#116
If you could do an automatic as well as a dct Ferrari, Porsche , Lamborghini, McLaren etc. would have done it already. GM is not all of a sudden going to be a leader in tranny design when no one else could do it. They don't lead in sports car technology. They are a decade behind. Yes they take old tech and make lots of it but this tranny will not somehow rewrite the rules.
01-14-2014, 09:36 AM
#117
Melting Slicks
If you could do an automatic as well as a dct Ferrari, Porsche , Lamborghini, McLaren etc. would have done it already. GM is not all of a sudden going to be a leader in tranny design when no one else could do it. They don't lead in sports car technology. They are a decade behind. Yes they take old tech and make lots of it but this tranny will not somehow rewrite the rules.
Not bad for a company a decade behind
Most successful team in the history of the American Le Mans Series. … Winner of eight team and manufacturer GT1 championships, Corvette Racing owns a record 73 ALMS class wins, 50 1-2 team finishes and swept all 23 rounds in 2007 and 2008 seasons. … 2009 included a partial season run in GT1 before transitioning – after sixth GT1 title at Le Mans – into the highly competitive GT2 class. … Claimed one victory (Mosport) and podium finishes in all five races during its developmental GT2 program with Pratt & Miller Corvette C6.R, based on ZR1 production model. … Won season-ending Petit Le Mans in 2010 with pass for lead on last lap. … Claimed seventh class win in GTE Pro at Le Mans in 2011, and scored win at Mosport . . . Finished second in team and driver championships in 2011. … Two-car factory effort will continue campaigning on cellulosic E85 in 2012 with GM 5.5-liter small-block V8 engine. … 20-year-old Jordan Taylor joins Jan Magnussen and Antonio Garcia in No. 3 Corvette C6.R in 2012. … Working in conjunction with GM Racing engineers, Pratt & Miller Engineering is responsible for construction, testing, development and trackside support for Corvette Racing.
http://www.alms.com/teams/corvette-racing
Last edited by DREAMERAK; 01-14-2014 at 09:39 AM.
01-14-2014, 09:47 AM
#118
CORVETTE RACING
Not bad for a company a decade behind
Most successful team in the history of the American Le Mans Series. … Winner of eight team and manufacturer GT1 championships, Corvette Racing owns a record 73 ALMS class wins, 50 1-2 team finishes and swept all 23 rounds in 2007 and 2008 seasons. … 2009 included a partial season run in GT1 before transitioning – after sixth GT1 title at Le Mans – into the highly competitive GT2 class. … Claimed one victory (Mosport) and podium finishes in all five races during its developmental GT2 program with Pratt & Miller Corvette C6.R, based on ZR1 production model. … Won season-ending Petit Le Mans in 2010 with pass for lead on last lap. … Claimed seventh class win in GTE Pro at Le Mans in 2011, and scored win at Mosport . . . Finished second in team and driver championships in 2011. … Two-car factory effort will continue campaigning on cellulosic E85 in 2012 with GM 5.5-liter small-block V8 engine. … 20-year-old Jordan Taylor joins Jan Magnussen and Antonio Garcia in No. 3 Corvette C6.R in 2012. … Working in conjunction with GM Racing engineers, Pratt & Miller Engineering is responsible for construction, testing, development and trackside support for Corvette Racing.
http://www.alms.com/teams/corvette-racing
Not bad for a company a decade behind
Most successful team in the history of the American Le Mans Series. … Winner of eight team and manufacturer GT1 championships, Corvette Racing owns a record 73 ALMS class wins, 50 1-2 team finishes and swept all 23 rounds in 2007 and 2008 seasons. … 2009 included a partial season run in GT1 before transitioning – after sixth GT1 title at Le Mans – into the highly competitive GT2 class. … Claimed one victory (Mosport) and podium finishes in all five races during its developmental GT2 program with Pratt & Miller Corvette C6.R, based on ZR1 production model. … Won season-ending Petit Le Mans in 2010 with pass for lead on last lap. … Claimed seventh class win in GTE Pro at Le Mans in 2011, and scored win at Mosport . . . Finished second in team and driver championships in 2011. … Two-car factory effort will continue campaigning on cellulosic E85 in 2012 with GM 5.5-liter small-block V8 engine. … 20-year-old Jordan Taylor joins Jan Magnussen and Antonio Garcia in No. 3 Corvette C6.R in 2012. … Working in conjunction with GM Racing engineers, Pratt & Miller Engineering is responsible for construction, testing, development and trackside support for Corvette Racing.
http://www.alms.com/teams/corvette-racing
Don't feed the
01-14-2014, 10:27 AM
#119
CORVETTE RACING
Not bad for a company a decade behind
Most successful team in the history of the American Le Mans Series. … Winner of eight team and manufacturer GT1 championships, Corvette Racing owns a record 73 ALMS class wins, 50 1-2 team finishes and swept all 23 rounds in 2007 and 2008 seasons. … 2009 included a partial season run in GT1 before transitioning – after sixth GT1 title at Le Mans – into the highly competitive GT2 class. … Claimed one victory (Mosport) and podium finishes in all five races during its developmental GT2 program with Pratt & Miller Corvette C6.R, based on ZR1 production model. … Won season-ending Petit Le Mans in 2010 with pass for lead on last lap. … Claimed seventh class win in GTE Pro at Le Mans in 2011, and scored win at Mosport . . . Finished second in team and driver championships in 2011. … Two-car factory effort will continue campaigning on cellulosic E85 in 2012 with GM 5.5-liter small-block V8 engine. … 20-year-old Jordan Taylor joins Jan Magnussen and Antonio Garcia in No. 3 Corvette C6.R in 2012. … Working in conjunction with GM Racing engineers, Pratt & Miller Engineering is responsible for construction, testing, development and trackside support for Corvette Racing.
http://www.alms.com/teams/corvette-racing
Not bad for a company a decade behind
Most successful team in the history of the American Le Mans Series. … Winner of eight team and manufacturer GT1 championships, Corvette Racing owns a record 73 ALMS class wins, 50 1-2 team finishes and swept all 23 rounds in 2007 and 2008 seasons. … 2009 included a partial season run in GT1 before transitioning – after sixth GT1 title at Le Mans – into the highly competitive GT2 class. … Claimed one victory (Mosport) and podium finishes in all five races during its developmental GT2 program with Pratt & Miller Corvette C6.R, based on ZR1 production model. … Won season-ending Petit Le Mans in 2010 with pass for lead on last lap. … Claimed seventh class win in GTE Pro at Le Mans in 2011, and scored win at Mosport . . . Finished second in team and driver championships in 2011. … Two-car factory effort will continue campaigning on cellulosic E85 in 2012 with GM 5.5-liter small-block V8 engine. … 20-year-old Jordan Taylor joins Jan Magnussen and Antonio Garcia in No. 3 Corvette C6.R in 2012. … Working in conjunction with GM Racing engineers, Pratt & Miller Engineering is responsible for construction, testing, development and trackside support for Corvette Racing.
http://www.alms.com/teams/corvette-racing
And he and Solofast are both right.
There's a big differences in how a sports cars (base Corvettes, Nissan 370Z's, S2000's, Miata's), track capable sports cars (Z06's, Vipers, GT3's, F430's), club racing prepared sports cars (customer builds by Katech, LMR, LG Motorsports), and race cars (NASA, ALMS, SVRA) perform at typical HPDE's. Repeated 25 minute sessions of 8-9/10ths driving on 60-90 mph average courses on hot days are what make those differences obvious, more so to recreational performance drivers (meant to be descriptive, not pejorative - since I'm one too).
Brakes are the first to degrade (rapid loss of pad material, soft, deep pedal, and super hot rotors, wheels, and wheel bearings), then engine oil and coolant reach max usable temps, though they all take some beating before you see these symptoms -- like on my '06Z (requiring pad swaps for HPDE's, then back to low dust pads for daily, etc.).
Supercharger performance will degrade more quickly than brakes, and automatic transmission performance will degrade shortly after engine oil and coolants reach max usable temps.
As I read his post, Solofast wasn't slamming the choice of an automatic, or saying it wasn't going to perform as we've been led to expect; he was just saying it does come with a known history of having poorer performance under the very circumstances the car is designed and marketed for: HPDE's.
I would agree with the comments saying GM surely designed the 8L90 for acceptable performance for the car's intended use (embarrassing Vipers and GT3's at club events). But, as Solofast pointed out, that remains to be seen -- which isn't an opinion one way or the other of what will be seen.
As it is, I'm very impressed with this car, and think we will probably see even more impressive variants, and equipment choices, as GM matures the C7. Very exciting times - even more exciting than when I was a hot rod loving kid in the '60s.
And, for posting etiquette sake: I'm honestly not trying to disparage anyone's opinion. So please forgive me if my post somehow fails in that regard.
01-14-2014, 10:43 AM
#120
My wife and three children all can drive sticks. My twenty year old daughter was driving my 08 Z on Big Willow just last month. There are several VERY fast women tracking Corvettes here in So California. I hope that helps.