Supercharging and Optimum Crankcase Vent system: LMR or RX Can?
07-22-2014, 10:31 AM
#21
Race Director
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What we really need is someone to develop an electric vacuum pump that doesn't run off the belt(s). Seems like a no brainer, I'd pay 1000 bucks for one right now.
07-22-2014, 10:42 AM
#22
07-22-2014, 10:54 AM
#23
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07-28-2014, 04:44 AM
#24
Team Owner
Sounds like he has a sales pitch ready to go. You think if anyone else emails him he will have a differently worded reply that outlines the same theory or he will just copy/paste?
Pretty simple to see that the outside of that engine is also rusted, the headers, the heads where the valve cover seals, etc. Nice "close up" that takes everything out of context.
Should I post pictures of engines that used passive systems (on non boosted motors no less) for 20 or 30 years with no rust?
Either way, as I have said before, it is better to have an active system if you are NA. For FI I would go with something like the LMR.
If you go with an active system because you are NA, on the LT motor, I would use the stock system and not waste your money. The stock PCV system on the wet sump engine is very good, I have not had a single drop make it into the intake manifold or tube/TB.
On older LSx motors, the stock system sucks (more than it should) but still it is debatable if one should install a catch can. You have to look at the end result. Does the can "catch" oil (mist)? Yes. Does it prevent it from getting into the intake? NO. So then why even go there? Do it right the first time, eliminate the stock system completely or just leave it stock and clean your top end regularly.
Pretty simple to see that the outside of that engine is also rusted, the headers, the heads where the valve cover seals, etc. Nice "close up" that takes everything out of context.
Should I post pictures of engines that used passive systems (on non boosted motors no less) for 20 or 30 years with no rust?
Either way, as I have said before, it is better to have an active system if you are NA. For FI I would go with something like the LMR.
If you go with an active system because you are NA, on the LT motor, I would use the stock system and not waste your money. The stock PCV system on the wet sump engine is very good, I have not had a single drop make it into the intake manifold or tube/TB.
On older LSx motors, the stock system sucks (more than it should) but still it is debatable if one should install a catch can. You have to look at the end result. Does the can "catch" oil (mist)? Yes. Does it prevent it from getting into the intake? NO. So then why even go there? Do it right the first time, eliminate the stock system completely or just leave it stock and clean your top end regularly.
Here's what I received from the RX rep:
Quote:
The LMR system works for a boosted application because the crankcase can become pressurized while in boost and performs the same task as the stock PCV system but in the opposite direction (direction is the wrong word, I should say opposite method - stock pulls, boost pushes).
This allows most of the damaging compounds to stay in, and accumulate in the crankcase. What God Particle is describing cannot evacuate. Think of this as a room. This room has a pipe in the middle constantly spewing smoke into it. Open one window, and some smoke is pushed out from the pressure of the smoke entering, but most remains in the room.. Same with a system that only vents. You never want pressure in a crankcase. Now open a window on the opposite end of the room with a fan drawing the smoke out, and the frsh air entering the opposite end flushes and replaces what the fan is evacuating. That simple. There is not a single professional drag racer or road racer that would ever run a vented only system.
The stock system actively sucks the gasses from the crankcase. LMR system on a naturally aspirated engine config is passive and not the best idea because it is not effective in removing any gasses. However, if the crankcase becomes pressurized then the LMR system can be passive and simply provide a way for the pressure to escape, which is its intention. The boost makes the LMR system active.
Watch this video to understand that an engine needs the damaging combustion byproducts evacuated at all times at a steady and constant rate. Allowing these to accumulate until pressure builds and pushes a small amount out a vent is the absolute least effective way to evacuate. A belt driven vacuum pump is the best, most effective but they wont live long on the street:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPIfI9aZHt4 You MUST have filtered fresh air entering one part of the crankcase making up for and flushing the damaging byproducts out the other side of the crankcase. The RX systems all have AN fittings now (no plastic valves to break) and high quality inline checkvalves.
Now there is no question LMR makes some of the best high HP builds out there, and the quality of work is top notch, but the lack of understanding proper crankcase evacuation is widespread. One only has to do oil analysis a few thousand miles with a vented PCV system deleted engine to see how severe the accumulation of these damaging compounds i. No politics or arguing....factual data.
You MUST evacuate (not just vent pressure) and pull vacuum at all times possible, and have a filtered fresh air supply (clean) to make up for, and flush the damaging compounds out as soon as they enter. The damage is gradual over time, but is real...and a simple oil analysis will show this. Why gamble on something so straight forward? The Elite Engineering E2 system also provides proper evacuation, but they are the only 2 on the market currently.
Here is a picture showing the rocker arms beginning to corrode from using a "pressure vent" only system:
This is only 6 months running a vented system. I urge anyone that has had a vented system on to simply pull a valve cover and look underneath at the rust starting and the water and condensation present.......it is impossible for a vented system to do more than push out a small amount of these contaminats:
Water
Unburnt fuel
Sulfuric acid
abrasive soot and carbon particles
etc.
All engines in order to live a long life must have evacuations, and relieving pressure is NOT evacuation. With affordable systems available that do all thats needed, why run the risk? And again, anyone can do an oil analysis and see this first hand and they dont have to blindly follow anyone's claims.
Quote:
The LMR system works for a boosted application because the crankcase can become pressurized while in boost and performs the same task as the stock PCV system but in the opposite direction (direction is the wrong word, I should say opposite method - stock pulls, boost pushes).
This allows most of the damaging compounds to stay in, and accumulate in the crankcase. What God Particle is describing cannot evacuate. Think of this as a room. This room has a pipe in the middle constantly spewing smoke into it. Open one window, and some smoke is pushed out from the pressure of the smoke entering, but most remains in the room.. Same with a system that only vents. You never want pressure in a crankcase. Now open a window on the opposite end of the room with a fan drawing the smoke out, and the frsh air entering the opposite end flushes and replaces what the fan is evacuating. That simple. There is not a single professional drag racer or road racer that would ever run a vented only system.
The stock system actively sucks the gasses from the crankcase. LMR system on a naturally aspirated engine config is passive and not the best idea because it is not effective in removing any gasses. However, if the crankcase becomes pressurized then the LMR system can be passive and simply provide a way for the pressure to escape, which is its intention. The boost makes the LMR system active.
Watch this video to understand that an engine needs the damaging combustion byproducts evacuated at all times at a steady and constant rate. Allowing these to accumulate until pressure builds and pushes a small amount out a vent is the absolute least effective way to evacuate. A belt driven vacuum pump is the best, most effective but they wont live long on the street:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPIfI9aZHt4 You MUST have filtered fresh air entering one part of the crankcase making up for and flushing the damaging byproducts out the other side of the crankcase. The RX systems all have AN fittings now (no plastic valves to break) and high quality inline checkvalves.
Now there is no question LMR makes some of the best high HP builds out there, and the quality of work is top notch, but the lack of understanding proper crankcase evacuation is widespread. One only has to do oil analysis a few thousand miles with a vented PCV system deleted engine to see how severe the accumulation of these damaging compounds i. No politics or arguing....factual data.
You MUST evacuate (not just vent pressure) and pull vacuum at all times possible, and have a filtered fresh air supply (clean) to make up for, and flush the damaging compounds out as soon as they enter. The damage is gradual over time, but is real...and a simple oil analysis will show this. Why gamble on something so straight forward? The Elite Engineering E2 system also provides proper evacuation, but they are the only 2 on the market currently.
Here is a picture showing the rocker arms beginning to corrode from using a "pressure vent" only system:
This is only 6 months running a vented system. I urge anyone that has had a vented system on to simply pull a valve cover and look underneath at the rust starting and the water and condensation present.......it is impossible for a vented system to do more than push out a small amount of these contaminats:
Water
Unburnt fuel
Sulfuric acid
abrasive soot and carbon particles
etc.
All engines in order to live a long life must have evacuations, and relieving pressure is NOT evacuation. With affordable systems available that do all thats needed, why run the risk? And again, anyone can do an oil analysis and see this first hand and they dont have to blindly follow anyone's claims.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 07-28-2014 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Unnecessary comments removed.