465 HP versus 730 HP
12-10-2013, 08:42 PM
#101
because the Corvette engine's superior mileage is achieved from engine management systems, NOT head design...Mark
12-10-2013, 10:03 PM
#103
Pro
Please show WHERE I mentioned Ferrari?,My example was the BMW engine. By engine management I was referring to the Corvette's ability to shut cylinders off for improved gas mileage. If you want to join the conversation, getting your FACTS CORRECT!!!, would be an excellent starting point...Mark
Last edited by sidepipe seeker; 12-10-2013 at 10:05 PM.
12-10-2013, 10:15 PM
#105
Safety Car
You can't gear a l-6 that low if an rpm because it just lacks the displacement at low rpms to create sufficient torque to be able to pull the car along at an efficient rpm. That is why the rpms and final drive will be different.
The ls7 does not shut off cylinders . Neither did any LS or lt1 before it.
Dohc is great , I love rpm but that's pretty much why I love my z. Big dohc. No replacement for displacement. Especially with dohc lol
The ls7 does not shut off cylinders . Neither did any LS or lt1 before it.
Dohc is great , I love rpm but that's pretty much why I love my z. Big dohc. No replacement for displacement. Especially with dohc lol
12-10-2013, 10:30 PM
#106
Le Mans Master
You can't gear a l-6 that low if an rpm because it just lacks the displacement at low rpms to create sufficient torque to be able to pull the car along at an efficient rpm. That is why the rpms and final drive will be different.
The ls7 does not shut off cylinders . Neither did any LS or lt1 before it.
Dohc is great , I love rpm but that's pretty much why I love my z. Big dohc. No replacement for displacement. Especially with dohc lol
The ls7 does not shut off cylinders . Neither did any LS or lt1 before it.
Dohc is great , I love rpm but that's pretty much why I love my z. Big dohc. No replacement for displacement. Especially with dohc lol
12-12-2013, 04:56 PM
#108
Safety Car
Ferrari spins their motor higher... there's really no magic in this... NASCAR turns 9500 and make 750 out of 5.8 liters... take the 6.2 and spin it to 7500 bet it'll make power too! lol
12-13-2013, 01:15 AM
#110
Pro
EXACTLY. I own a 1991 Ferrari Testarossa ( Modified) The Ferrari motor will Smooooooothly idle at 1,000rpms, yet Rev to over 8,000rpms. If the HEADS will NOT allow sufficient breathing, NO motor will rev!!!...Mark
12-13-2013, 08:57 AM
#111
Le Mans Master
Here's Ward's Automotive Top Ten Engines this year:
· 3.0L TFSI Supercharged DOHC V-6 (Audi S5)
· 3.0L Turbodiesel DOHC I-6 (BMW 535d)
· 3.0L Turbodiesel DOHC V-6 (Ram 1500 EcoDiesel)
· 83-kW Electric Motor (Fiat 500e)
· 1.0L EcoBoost DOHC I-3 (Ford Fiesta)
· 2.0L Turbodiesel DOHC I-4 (Chevrolet Cruze Diesel)
· 6.2L OHV V-8 (Chevrolet Corvette Stingray)
· 3.5L SOHC V-6 (Honda Accord)
· 2.7L DOHC H-6 boxer (Porsche Cayman)
· 1.8L Turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Volkswagen Jetta)
Congrats to GM. Interesting tho what Ward states when discussing the motor
" For the first time since 2008, GM has two engines on the list. The second needs little introduction: the 90-degree small-block V-8 that has been in production since 1955 in race cars and production cars and trucks.
The clean-sheet fifth-generation small-block maintains the pushrod legacy while integrating a host of new technologies, such as direct injection and standard cylinder deactivation (marketed as Active Fuel Management), which work in tandem to deliver outstanding real-world fuel economy.
WardsAuto recognizes the 460-hp LT1 6.2L V-8 in the ferocious Chevrolet Corvette Stingray and finds its cousin, the L86 6.2L EcoTec3 V-8 in the GMC Sierra Denali, to be the most compelling of the three small-block truck engines.
The 6.2L engines share blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts and other hardware but require unique intake, exhaust and lubrication systems and tuning."
· 3.0L TFSI Supercharged DOHC V-6 (Audi S5)
· 3.0L Turbodiesel DOHC I-6 (BMW 535d)
· 3.0L Turbodiesel DOHC V-6 (Ram 1500 EcoDiesel)
· 83-kW Electric Motor (Fiat 500e)
· 1.0L EcoBoost DOHC I-3 (Ford Fiesta)
· 2.0L Turbodiesel DOHC I-4 (Chevrolet Cruze Diesel)
· 6.2L OHV V-8 (Chevrolet Corvette Stingray)
· 3.5L SOHC V-6 (Honda Accord)
· 2.7L DOHC H-6 boxer (Porsche Cayman)
· 1.8L Turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Volkswagen Jetta)
Congrats to GM. Interesting tho what Ward states when discussing the motor
" For the first time since 2008, GM has two engines on the list. The second needs little introduction: the 90-degree small-block V-8 that has been in production since 1955 in race cars and production cars and trucks.
The clean-sheet fifth-generation small-block maintains the pushrod legacy while integrating a host of new technologies, such as direct injection and standard cylinder deactivation (marketed as Active Fuel Management), which work in tandem to deliver outstanding real-world fuel economy.
WardsAuto recognizes the 460-hp LT1 6.2L V-8 in the ferocious Chevrolet Corvette Stingray and finds its cousin, the L86 6.2L EcoTec3 V-8 in the GMC Sierra Denali, to be the most compelling of the three small-block truck engines.
The 6.2L engines share blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts and other hardware but require unique intake, exhaust and lubrication systems and tuning."
12-13-2013, 11:14 AM
#112
lmao stock LS1s with 5400rpm red line make 330rwhp with full bolt ons.
cam only they will rev to 7100 and make 410rwhp
guess where they rev to with heads/cam? 7100
There is a big difference between sufficient and ideal.
the limit on a LS/LT is valvetrain stability. For arguments sake youjust increase average hp by optimizing the heads and compression for the cam you install. (I like to match the cam to the heads I have when I build)
We already see 650hp NA LT1s out there and the car has only been out for two months.
The motors now with direct injection have greater potential under boost anyway so I won't be caming my LT1.
Also, there's less reason to spin a motor to high rpms under boost, so a less complicated OHV is more logical in that application.
What will ferrari do when they start boosting in a few years?(i bet we will see less rpms)
cam only they will rev to 7100 and make 410rwhp
guess where they rev to with heads/cam? 7100
There is a big difference between sufficient and ideal.
the limit on a LS/LT is valvetrain stability. For arguments sake youjust increase average hp by optimizing the heads and compression for the cam you install. (I like to match the cam to the heads I have when I build)
We already see 650hp NA LT1s out there and the car has only been out for two months.
The motors now with direct injection have greater potential under boost anyway so I won't be caming my LT1.
Also, there's less reason to spin a motor to high rpms under boost, so a less complicated OHV is more logical in that application.
What will ferrari do when they start boosting in a few years?(i bet we will see less rpms)
Last edited by genv6.2gm; 12-13-2013 at 11:23 AM.
12-13-2013, 02:28 PM
#113
Pro
lmao stock LS1s with 5400rpm red line make 330rwhp with full bolt ons.
cam only they will rev to 7100 and make 410rwhp
guess where they rev to with heads/cam? 7100
There is a big difference between sufficient and ideal.
the limit on a LS/LT is valvetrain stability. For arguments sake youjust increase average hp by optimizing the heads and compression for the cam you install. (I like to match the cam to the heads I have when I build)
We already see 650hp NA LT1s out there and the car has only been out for two months.
The motors now with direct injection have greater potential under boost anyway so I won't be caming my LT1.
Also, there's less reason to spin a motor to high rpms under boost, so a less complicated OHV is more logical in that application.
What will ferrari do when they start boosting in a few years?(i bet we will see less rpms)
cam only they will rev to 7100 and make 410rwhp
guess where they rev to with heads/cam? 7100
There is a big difference between sufficient and ideal.
the limit on a LS/LT is valvetrain stability. For arguments sake youjust increase average hp by optimizing the heads and compression for the cam you install. (I like to match the cam to the heads I have when I build)
We already see 650hp NA LT1s out there and the car has only been out for two months.
The motors now with direct injection have greater potential under boost anyway so I won't be caming my LT1.
Also, there's less reason to spin a motor to high rpms under boost, so a less complicated OHV is more logical in that application.
What will ferrari do when they start boosting in a few years?(i bet we will see less rpms)
Last edited by sidepipe seeker; 12-13-2013 at 02:35 PM.
12-13-2013, 02:34 PM
#114
Pro
Here's Ward's Automotive Top Ten Engines this year:
· 3.0L TFSI Supercharged DOHC V-6 (Audi S5)
· 3.0L Turbodiesel DOHC I-6 (BMW 535d)
· 3.0L Turbodiesel DOHC V-6 (Ram 1500 EcoDiesel)
· 83-kW Electric Motor (Fiat 500e)
· 1.0L EcoBoost DOHC I-3 (Ford Fiesta)
· 2.0L Turbodiesel DOHC I-4 (Chevrolet Cruze Diesel)
· 6.2L OHV V-8 (Chevrolet Corvette Stingray)
· 3.5L SOHC V-6 (Honda Accord)
· 2.7L DOHC H-6 boxer (Porsche Cayman)
· 1.8L Turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Volkswagen Jetta)
Congrats to GM. Interesting tho what Ward states when discussing the motor
" For the first time since 2008, GM has two engines on the list. The second needs little introduction: the 90-degree small-block V-8 that has been in production since 1955 in race cars and production cars and trucks.
The clean-sheet fifth-generation small-block maintains the pushrod legacy while integrating a host of new technologies, such as direct injection and standard cylinder deactivation (marketed as Active Fuel Management), which work in tandem to deliver outstanding real-world fuel economy.
WardsAuto recognizes the 460-hp LT1 6.2L V-8 in the ferocious Chevrolet Corvette Stingray and finds its cousin, the L86 6.2L EcoTec3 V-8 in the GMC Sierra Denali, to be the most compelling of the three small-block truck engines.
The 6.2L engines share blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts and other hardware but require unique intake, exhaust and lubrication systems and tuning."
· 3.0L TFSI Supercharged DOHC V-6 (Audi S5)
· 3.0L Turbodiesel DOHC I-6 (BMW 535d)
· 3.0L Turbodiesel DOHC V-6 (Ram 1500 EcoDiesel)
· 83-kW Electric Motor (Fiat 500e)
· 1.0L EcoBoost DOHC I-3 (Ford Fiesta)
· 2.0L Turbodiesel DOHC I-4 (Chevrolet Cruze Diesel)
· 6.2L OHV V-8 (Chevrolet Corvette Stingray)
· 3.5L SOHC V-6 (Honda Accord)
· 2.7L DOHC H-6 boxer (Porsche Cayman)
· 1.8L Turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Volkswagen Jetta)
Congrats to GM. Interesting tho what Ward states when discussing the motor
" For the first time since 2008, GM has two engines on the list. The second needs little introduction: the 90-degree small-block V-8 that has been in production since 1955 in race cars and production cars and trucks.
The clean-sheet fifth-generation small-block maintains the pushrod legacy while integrating a host of new technologies, such as direct injection and standard cylinder deactivation (marketed as Active Fuel Management), which work in tandem to deliver outstanding real-world fuel economy.
WardsAuto recognizes the 460-hp LT1 6.2L V-8 in the ferocious Chevrolet Corvette Stingray and finds its cousin, the L86 6.2L EcoTec3 V-8 in the GMC Sierra Denali, to be the most compelling of the three small-block truck engines.
The 6.2L engines share blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts and other hardware but require unique intake, exhaust and lubrication systems and tuning."
12-15-2013, 08:14 AM
#116
Hello Dominic & THANKS!!!...for posting that list. For those lacking math skills, out of the "10" TOP ENGINES, "7" are DOHC!!!, "1" is SOHC, OR 80% are OHC DESIGN. You OHV proponents need to remove your collective heads from being DEEPLY BURIED in the sand!!!...Mark
Gotta love the
12-15-2013, 08:26 AM
#117
Safety Car
You guys need to stop arguing there's nothing to argue. For cost reasons gm produces the ohv motor. It makes the corvette cheap. If they built a second gen LT5 they would bitchslap the world again but it would drive the price right up. Then the Porsche lovers would move to the interior...
12-15-2013, 09:59 AM
#118
The nice thing about this thread is you can leave for a few days and know that when you come back mark will still be beating that poor horse...I like guys I can count on.
12-15-2013, 10:15 AM
#119
Le Mans Master
You guys need to stop arguing there's nothing to argue. For cost reasons gm produces the ohv motor. It makes the corvette cheap. If they built a second gen LT5 they would bitchslap the world again but it would drive the price right up. Then the Porsche lovers would move to the interior...
And that was the point I also looked to make earlier in the thread. In many ways you gotta respect what GM does with the OHV and how it compares favorably with much of the best sports cars in the market. But they're going for a price point. GM can obviously build a DOHC, but those motors are missing 2 cylinders. Just like Porsche's rear engine placement, Chevy's use of OHV works a lot better than it conceptually should. It's a bit anachronistic just like Porsche's rear engine, but they have refined the hell out of it. This is the same as the argument for/against a mid engine Vette that has been raging since the 60's. You can look at GM's lonely OHV in a sea of OHC MOTORS both ways. The LT1 is an outlier but OTOH, it shows the level of refinement GM has achieved that can parallel DOHC architecture. Necessity is the mother of invention. GM needs an inexpensive motor and they build a crapload of trucks. Simple as that.
12-15-2013, 11:50 AM
#120
Pro
Since my opinion differs from yours , you label me a troll. Being the whole world does NOT share your opinion on a vast myriad of issues/topics, the term "troll" must be used by you "ad nauseam". I wish that there was a "middle finger salute" icon, as I would be inserting & directing it towards you...Mark