MitchAlsup

The V12 has little bearing on the output, at best indirect.

What does is the 9,000RPM RedLine.

Having 12 cylinders instead of 8, but the same displacement, means that the stroke is shorter, a shorter stroke leads to higher RPM potential.
That and 4 valves per cylinder.

NickHall

I am more concerned with useable HP than with HP. I had a 660HP Vette once thanks to the magic John Lingenfelter and team over in Decatur IN, it was awesome, hooked up at 50-60 MPH depending on road surface and temp. But on wet days it was a bear to keep on the street in town - hi-way was fine. 1/4 inch too much gas on a wet or icy turn at the stop-light and you were in the other lane facing in the wrong direction. My wife refused to drive it in the rain, so I had to take the boost down a bit, and then take the supercharger off the car completely and be satisfied with under 500HP. It was a more manageable beast at about 500HP. The new C7 has better traction management and would do well at even 660HP I think. So I am thinking, hmmm, maybe it is time for a blow job on the new C7. My wife has died (cancer) but she would have loved the blown C7 as she could have driven it in the rain without fear. And to be honest high HP numbers from a V12 at 10,000 RPM do not impress me, that is a fuel-flow number only. I do not drive much at 150+MPH, so I drive torque not HP. And the C7 delivers in manageable torque. Notice that the specks for the C7 350 are identical to the 2013 427 under 4000 RPM. You get the performance of a 427 in a 350. It can be a baby going to the store on a rainy day, or a beast on the open road or race track. And if you get a C7-BJ, then stand back and give that lady some room. Give me the C7 any day over the tiny piston V-12..... and I can afford both. The C7 is the car of the century in my book. Award after award after award.... Car of the year type of stuff. Superbowl quality. Applied rocket science.

ChucksZ06

We've seen that even in the Corvette w the LT-5.

Yeah that power house dohc engine was overtaken by the lowly pushrod engine after only a few years. 375 hp and the car was a nose heavy pig in the handling dept. You guys that assume dohc is better also assume foreign cars are better...not.

C5 Frank

I have read Ford has an engine in the works that is around 5.4 liters with 8k+ rpm redline making 600hp na. Modified Boss 302s turn 8300 rpms and make close to 500rwhp NA. All that from 5 liters. One thing these higher rpm na engines dont have is low end torque. They need revs to build torque and power. That is where the lt1 has an advantage on the ferrari as well. Low rpm torque. On a roadcourse exiting a turn is rarely taken at high rpm. Torque at low engine speeds can build acceleration quicker. Ultimately power will win out over distances.

Trackaholic

In order for an engine to make power it needs to move lots of air. Therefore, the primary factor is how well you can get air into and out of the cylinders. With only 2 valves per cylinder, the Chevy V8 will have a hard time making that much power. You can see from the LT1 dyno charts that revving it another 1000 RPM will have no effect as the engine is already struggling for air at redline anyway.

Also, look at the other components involved, such as the intake and exhaust system. The C7 has a short manifold that are great for quick light-up of the catalytic converters for emissions purposes, but which probably impede exhaust flow (look at the gains from a header swap). The F12's headers look like those on an F1 car.

The F12 also has telescopic intake runners that vary in length based on RPM in order to maintain a flat torque curve to redline. The engine run with a 13.5:1 compression ratio, which will certainly help power output. Overall, the engine is simply much more optimized for high power, while the GM engine is optimized for cost and reliability. Ferrari has that luxury as their car costs around $400,000.

I also feel that GM purposefully left quite a bit of performance on the table with the LT1, which will be realized over the next several years. Look at the gains people are getting with a cam swap.

-T

Jefff1

Many thanks for the explanations to my original question...I understand this subject a lot better now...

I had started wondering if GM felt the new engine was putting out enough power for the vast majority of potential owners with a varied set of driving skills....they can offer specialized versions with more power to satisfy those that demand it as they have done in the past...

That Ferrari header looks like a nightmare of pipe bending...

VIN666

Anybody got a dyno sheet for the F12?
I can't find one using the mighty google.
Would like to try something.

04_Z06_CE

The sls black series makes 622 out of their 6.2 v8. Also very impressive. Either way the c7 holds its own.

genv6.2gm

I own a coyote and it doesn't have low end grunt of an LT1 or LS3. what you're saying is true before they added cam phasing to OHV. yes DOHC enables a head flow charactistic that is a advantage at high RPM. BUT one can just up the displacement to meet power level, we are not taxed by liter like europe is.

true

genv6.2gm

supercharged?

GoldenRod

Most of the Coyote's power is imaginary... or a great marketing lie, whichever you prefer. Take it from a 2014 Mustang owner. Couple that with a useless transmission sourced from China and you basically have a car that should say "Hasbro" on the front.

I've never seen a dyno sheet for an F12, but my guess is that it is extremely peaky with little low end grunt compared to that peak HP number. That being said, it probably still makes over 300 ft-lbs at 2500 RPM, so low is a relative term. It's a monster, but track performance is about more than pure power. It's a about a complete integrated package that the driver is confident pushing to the limit.

04_Z06_CE

NA , all motor 6.2.
Very impressive

CPhelps

It's also one of the few DOHC V8s that is even slightly lighter than the SBC*, so a very impressive engine indeed.

I think it also costs more than an entire Corvette for just the engine though.

*difficult to compare numbers since the state of engine dress manufacturers lists weights at is not always clear - when weight is listed at all.

VIN666

You guys do realize that tuners on this very forum have achieved AMG numbers with some simple mods, right?
And that's without DOHC and all the high revving jazz.

lgodom

There's a YouTube video with comparing the Ferrari, a 911, and the C7. In the video Randy Pobst explains that the Ferrari is a GT car, and not optimized for perfect handling to maintain ride quality. It obviously couldn't put down 100% of its power given the tires and the suspension tuning. It may not be that much faster based on lap times, but he 7oo+ hp sure put bigger smiles on Randy's and the passengers faces than the C7 or the Carrera did.

genv6.2gm

The C7 is not optimized for perfect handling to maintain ride quality as well...

04_Z06_CE

Yes , heads and cam with a nasty lope.

CPhelps

Yep, and that's why I love me some SBC, but we're just giving respect where it is due. GM is a lot more restricted on what they can do with intake, exhaust, cam profile, etc. in a stock car (especially the base), but I think GM Powertrain consistently does an amazing job.

brokenparts

to answer your question, RPM is the reason they make so much horsepower.

dart.deanda

Currently a C5Z06 owner, and although I'm not there yet, I fully expect to pull 500 plus hp from my 5.7, H/C/I/E/UDP. The recipe is there, don't know how many of these are out there, but I'd say quite a few. Hell, according to the C5Z fast list, 9.9 on stock cubes, and based on 3100 lbs race weight (removing all the easy stuff) the estimated HP is 730, out of a 5.7...