squirrelchew

Used to work dispatch and whatnot for a cable provider many years ago. Animal chew (specifically squirrels around here) was like.. the #3 or so cause of cable system outages. Theft and suckout were above it.

Vetteman Jack

Sometimes that's just the way it turns out.

Avanti

Simple, if factory it's because no one was ever supposed to see it. Shivy isn't like Swiss watch companies that finely finish their movements even if hidden away from owners' eyes.

Mr. Black

I guess I'm the only one that is completely baffled by what I'm seeing here.

Mr. Black

You're saying that to Bill Dearborn?

Bill Dearborn

You didn't answer my question. I asked if it needed to be blended any better from a functional standpoint. Will that roughness cause an actual physical failure of the engine? Will it cause a stress crack in that area? Does it need to be any better than it is and looking nicer isn't usually a functional requirement.

Time spent making things look nice when it could be better spent making things less likely to fail is a waste of time. I worked in aerospace as well and know what has to be done and what doesn't have to be done. As we learned in all of our Quality Classes quality is about how systems/parts perform and are able to do the job they are designed to do. There are several hundred thousand parts in some missiles and most don't have to look good but every one of them has to work perfectly at the same time for a missile to complete its mission.

I don't do mods unless they are required for how I use the car (track duty). And the mods I do I do myself.

Bill

tjm9746

Bill when i see work like that it makes me wonder how many other corners were cut. It dont take all day with the technology these shops have do clean it up some. You will need stitches if your not carefull where you touch that block. If you seen blending that looks like they used a cut off saw and it dont make you concerned fine.

TheRobSJ

I’m not sure if you’ve seen a modern automotive production line, but I’ve seen plenty. Things move down the line pretty fast. They don’t have time to do anything but a super rough cut and that’s it. Even with cosmetic things that a customer can see such as a paint blemish, some more time is taken, but still nowhere near the level of time and care a professional detailer would use on the same blemish.

I have also seen race shop engine production. (If you ever find yourself in Charlotte and can get a tour of the Hendrick Motorsports campus, it’s really neat). There is a giant room with a fleet of Haas CNC machines making all the parts. Fine when you’re making maybe 100-150 engines a year and they all cost over $50k when they’re done.

But when you’re a manufacturer making several hundreds of thousands engines per year and they cost less than $5k? Things don’t get to look like jewelry inside. It’s just not feasible to do it. Nor is there even remotely a need to do it when 99.9% of the consumers will never even see it or care about it.

tjm9746

I was just taken back by the lack of deburring went into my engine my LS looked much better than this block. And if you are not very carefull you will need some stiches the edges are razor sharp. But i will take care of it like i said this is the most expensive car i have ever owned and i was kind of shocked thats all.

TheRobSJ

If it makes you feel any better, all the “it’s a Corvette not a Porsche” stuff isn’t true. I’ve seen this kind of work in Porsche engines and even on more exotic brands.

tjm9746

Hello
Iimagine your right i never got to see in one of them exotic's but if its that way as well thats just sad. I have to deburr a lot of my block because theres little sharp burrs that can break lose and end up going through a main. Like i said to some of the other guys i was just shocked by it. I never seen this lack of deburring in any engine i have ever taken apart. Its the most expensive car i ever bought and i just dont think its ok. But if i offended you sunday i appoligize i am just taken back by it. It is what it is i will fix what i can just for peace of mind.

DaveInColumbus

I see no evidence of corner cutting. A prior poster has already asked, without an answer, what functionality you think is impaired by the way this part was machined. I'd also like to hear the answer, because I don't see a problem.

This thought is quantitatively flawed, IMO. The question isn't "Does it take all day?" but "How much longer would it take?" and "How much benefit and cost is added by the extra time?"

Let's say that it takes one extra machining step to beautify a part that nobody will see. Let's say that it takes 10s to complete that step. Suppose that GM is making 40,000 of these parts per year. That's an extra 400,000s of machining time, which is 111 hours. Let's say there's some nominal value per hour for that machine time, say, $100/hour. The cosmetic fixes you desire would cost an extra 28 cents per part. And for what? In an industry that measures parts cost to 10th's of a cent, this is waste, pure and simple. I *want* GM to find ways to do everything to sufficient spec with reduced cost because I want to pay as little as possible for my Corvette. Where you see corner cutting, I see good engineering because "good enough" is a statement of excellence for every engineer.

I recommend watching A Faster Horse, a documentary about the 2015 Ford Mustang. There's a scene in which the chief engineer and the program manager are in a meeting approving close-to-first-production fixes discovered when trying to build the car. One problem with the car was that a fastener couldn't be attached to the car with the wheels attached, but the wheels were already affixed to the car at the station that fastened the screw. The engineer affirmed that the solution would work. The program manager asked what it cost. When the engineer said it was over $1/car, the program manager lost his mind. "$1.27 AND THE CUSTOMER GETS NOTHING!" It's a great line and food for thought.

Automotive and aerospace aren't brothers; they're barely cousins. The optimization criteria are quite different.

tjm9746

If you dont mind shoddy work than this topic should not bother you. Its my engine i dont like it thats why i am fixing it. There will be no possability of burrs or chips of aluminum breaking loose and running through a bearings or into my oil pump. Its totally unacceptable to me. I was already going in to remove all the other weak links like afm lifters and cam. The springs, pistons. So i will blend the razor sharp edges and jagged drilled holes to make it right.. the crank they deburred with a cut off saw i will let stand. Thats about it i hope you understand niw and we dont have to still be talking about this for another week. Thanks for your concern advice and knowlage. Have a Great Day.

Tinkertech

Take a quick look at engineering drawings.

At the bottom it is always stated "break all edges"

That's deburring in engineering / drafting terms.

tjm9746

Lol well i guess they missed it on my car. Good thing i decided to pull the crank shaft a piece of something had already gone through the main bearing put a nice scrape in the bearing luckly it didnt damage the crank journal. So i took about 45 minutes at most and completely deburred my block flushed out all oil and water galley's and i am throwing a katech red face pump in as well. I will cut my oil filter open to see if this may have happen since the last oil change. But there is nomore jagged burrs hanging or razor shap edges in my block now and the little time it took i feel is good insurence.